Feedback on my review of TGS

[Bob T Dwarf]

We do see Perrin trying to be a better leader.  Why do you think we get the scene of him inspecting the wagons while he deals with the requests and problems of his lieutenants?

 

He's now maximizing his time.  Paying attention to the details he'd neglected while so single-mindedly pursuing Faile.  Leading by example not bossing by dictate.

 

The internal monologue is just to show us that he's aware of his failings and determined to not repeat them.

[AuldGoldBeard]

We get the scene of him with the wagons because he's a ridiculous micro-manager.

 

From a writing standpoint, it is an attempt to show Perrin becoming a leader, which renders the internal monologue a superfluity catering to the lazy and/or stupid reader.  The point is that if the author is competent enough to show things instead of telling them, then he doesn't need to tell them in the first place.

[FelixA9]

 

The Asmo and Mat going somewhere commments were misleading.  Not cool.  You make it sound like we hear something about Asmo's fate and see Matt go to the Tower of Genji.  Of course neither happens.  Two thumbs down to that.  :P

 

I thought the book was great though.  I have to agree there were spots were Matt didn't seem like Matt (which bites because he's my favorite character).  That's too bad about Verin.  Great scene but it left me wishing she'd have been able to find the oath rod.  Egwene was fantastic!  Elayne?  If she wasn't in there I didn't miss her.  Overall one of my favorite in the series.  When does the next one come out?  ;D

[sheikh chilli]

mat and asmo plot lines were a bit shady. other than that i thought the review is alright

[Mozark]

 

Jordan always did a tremendous job of weaving internal thoughts in with the dialogue and action to give a reader a clear, but subtle view into a character's mind and motivations.  Sanderson simply dumps two paragraphs of internal monologues into the middle of a scene, and lets the reader muddle through it.  Even worse is that Sanderson feels the need to describe the characters' inner struggles in excruciating detail.  To put it bluntly, this is lazy writing for lazy readers. 

 

 

This is the best summary I've read about it.  After I finished the book (actually, for about the last two-thirds of the book) I felt like crying.  There's no confusing Sanderson's writing with Jordan's.  The Rand you knew, the Egwene you knew, the Cadsuane you knew, they died with Jordan.  The characters in this book felt like the Mirror-Rand's from the beginning of The Shadow Rising, from that first bubble of evil.  They had no souls, they were parodies of themselves. 

 

I understand that it's irrational to think that a book could have Jordan's quality when it wasn't written by Jordan.  But I personally was hoping for more than what I got.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Very good review, quite accurate.

 

But tell Brandon that I discovered several mistakes in my book

 

For example...

 

Meidani:  "Where you attacked?"  (Supposed to be, "Were you attacked")

 

I remember seeing SEVERAL spelling and grammatical mistakes.  Not sure if thats the fault of the typist, or Brandon.

[Seven of Nine]

Jason, you did a really good job getting me excited and I appreciated your disclaimers. I haven't read the book yet, but I have listened to the audiobook (Kramer and Reading are fantastic as usual). I wondered if my take on the writing would be impacted on the traditional voices (I've finally got a copy of the paper book and am getting ready to read through it--I had to go back and read Rand's epiphany chapter first). But Mat did seem off at first, even though I was prepared not to believe that that would be the case. But he's the only one I had any issues with and that was only at first.

 

I did get the impression from the review though that Mat and Thom were going to go after Moiraine in this book. I was a bit disappointed at first, but TGS was fabulous without that, so nor harm, no foul.

 

And once again, you were so on. This book is awesome!

[Steinman]

I agreed with most parts of the review. It certainly got my expectations up high enough, and then they were surpassed.

 

I didn't like how you alluded to Mat and Tower of Genjei. It was a bit disappointing now, especially as Mat's plotline wasn't the most exciting (yes we know that all sorts of weird, dark stuff happen in the world now, we didn't need 40 pages on it).

Other things I didn't like all that much were Perrin's and Gawyn's parts.

 

But apart from that we had everything that happened around Rand and Egwene, which took up about 3/4s of the book, and the majority of those parts were so finger-licking good I'll read them over and over. Many of the best scenes in the whole series could be found there. Practically every chapter with Egwene (who was my most hated character through books 1 to 5) had me mouthing stuff like "Yay!" "Hooray!" "Super-Egwene!". Silly I know, but I get excited like that when I read - for example - her confrontation with Elaida.

And Rand. That scene with Semirhage was one of the most shocking things I've ever read (but not the best in the series, or even the best in this book), and it pained me to read his chapters afterward. When even he and Min seemed to be falling apart I basically thought that he was a goner, and it was frightening to read how Tuon perceived him at their meeting (did he use Compulsion on her?). When we got to the end I thought that the title "Veins of Gold" suggested that Min, Elayne and Aviendha would turn him around in some way, but the chapter as written was incredibly good (it left me with so much hope). I thought that the last chapter title "Bathed in Light" would be a reference to a light halo around Rand (as opposed to the darkness he had earlier). I'm extremely excited to see what's in store for him in Towers of Midnight - will he meet with Tuon again for example?

But yeah, Egwene stole my show as well.

 

What about the writing then? Most of my excitement for the book stem from a bunch of fantastic scenes and Egwene's tour de force. Would that have been as good if Jordan had written it? Very likely. Would Perrin and Gawyn have been as boring, and would Mat still have had that journey into Hinderstap if Jordan had written it? Probably. I think Brandon Sanderson did a good job with bringing the story forward, and writing with a good spirit, but I missed some of Jordan's attention to detail. For example the Redarms that went with the Aes Sedai into Hinderstap aren't mentioned at all when Mat go to save the AS, and several things that happened well over a year ago are referenced to as "months ago".

 

All in all I'm very excited about the final books, and place this book at the very top, among The Great Hunt, The Shadow Rising and Knife of Dreams.

[Kairina]

I thought the review was mostly fair and accurate.  Anyone who couldn't see the Asmo comment was a joke deserves their disappointment.  You certainly could have included more spoilers if you were going to devote a section to them.

 

Agreed. All in all it was a good review. Got me even more pumped for the book than I already was (and I wouldn't have thought that possible). However, if you take GoldBeard's advice and include more spoilers next time, segregate them even further please because I really appreciated what the spoilers told and what they didn't. I wouldn't have wanted to know anything else until I got my own chance to read through it.

[StrangeCat]

As I read it I wasn't to sure about the book, but once I got towards then end I really understood the Title of the Book, the art work, everything!  It was Great!  Everything came together with Rand on Dragonmount, Egweane in the White Tower.  I loved how everything was a forshadow of darkness because of the darkness in Rand.  Great Book!!

[Shard]

I think your review was very spot on, Rand's journey was dark, Egwene's was awesome and Mat's wasn't as eventful but still good anyways. I understand your point about some characters seeming a bit off but others seeming very on. I gotta say I was thrown off by Nynaeve's support of Mat in front of Toun but I guess what she says about and to Mat is different from what others get to say about him lol.

 

I too hated reading about Gawyn it's amazing that the OTHER brother has become a bigger favor of mine then Gawayn the Pyscho. You did do a good job illustrating the mood of the book without really spoiling anything and I'm shocked at how much happened here.

[Mr Ares]

(did he use Compulsion on her?).

Doubtful.

 

several things that happened well over a year ago are referenced to as "months ago".

Such as?

[rosetintdworld]

I agree with the opinion that BS tries too hard to spell out the characters' every thought with no subtlety, although I'm not sure I would have put it quite so harshly and overall I still loved the book.  The most irritating moments for me were also the Forsaken; I sometimes felt like Sanderson sounded like a fanboy, for lack of a better word, when making pronouncements about them.  (ex: When Graendal thinks that Mesaana had done some amazingly evil acts, but nothing so tremendous as Moridin...eh.)  I second that Semi felt like a terrible caricature.

 

I also agree with Jason and almost everyone else that Gawyn's sections in particular were worthless, and also Mat's and Perrin's, unfortunately.  But Eg was absolutely fabulous the whole time. 

 

On a horribly nerdy and nitpicky note, I've found myself somewhat fascinated by the way that Jordan splits up POVs throughout the series and how many pages he allots to each character.  And, by fascinated, I mean that I'm such a loser that I've counted.  So--and you must really forgive this nitpicking--the most inaccurate part of your review was the part where you asserted that Rand took up over half the book.  Erm, sorry, no...not even close.  I haven't counted yet, but he doesn't even have the largest share--that would be Egwene by a landslide.  I'd be surprised if 30% was from his POV.

 

That embarrassingly nerdy quibble aside, Jason, I thought you did an excellent job describing what you found exciting without using spoilers.  Like I said, I was probably slightly more irritated with Brandon's subtlety than you, but I still found the book engaging and often shocking, and your review was a great preview.

[Seven of Nine]

I also agree with Jason and almost everyone else that Gawyn's sections in particular were worthless, and also Mat's and Perrin's, unfortunately.  But Eg was absolutely fabulous the whole time. 

That's okay. Except for EotW, I've found most of Gawyn's sections to be worthless.

[Moorz]

Jason - I thought your review was spot on.

 

I think what people need to remember is:

Brandon is not RJ. There will be differences.

Mat is the only character that felt off.

There is so much to happen in these last three books that the pace needs to be lightning fast. I think RJ could not have accomplished as much as Brandon without it feeling fast paced or without the writing feeling different also. There was a lot of complaining about there being three more books instead of one - can anyone tell me that one book would have been enough. I am definite that when the series finally ends, EVERYONE will say "thank you Brandon for making it three books instead of one."

This book was phenominal. Nearly every chapter had me on edge. I tell you now I took a huge number of "time outs" reading the book - I needed to process the information overload that was being thrown at us.

IMO the best book of the series.

 

Waiting for this book reached fever pitch for me when I read Jason's review. I would have strangled him to get my hands on that book (kidding). The book itself lived up to the review. How can I wait for the next book?

 

Well done Brandon. Well done Jason.

[John Galt]

This review was 110% accurate.  I couldn't agree more with what was said.  It was by far and away the best book since Lord of Chaos.  Knife of Dreams was the first RJ book I had liked since Crown of Swords and Gathering Storm was the first book I loved since Lord of Chaos.

 

I find it more than a little pathetic and disgusting that people give credit to RJ for anything they liked about this novel and bash BS for anything that felt "off" to them.  The truth is that Brandon Sanderson saved this series from abject mediocrity.  Though it did seem like RJ could have done that himself upon reading Knife of Dreams, the fact remains that ever since Lord of Chaos this series was becoming disjointed to the point of it being unbearable.  Crossroads to Twilight was easily one of the worst fantasy books I've ever read.  The story jumped around more than a grasshopper on adrenaline and the only thing in nature that moves slower than the plot is glass deformation.

 

Robert Jordan was one of the most talented writers in my generation and is easily the best epic fantasy writer since Tolkien, but at some point he lost his way.  It's scary that since LoC you can come to forums like this and only find negative reviews about how boring RJ's style had become and yet as soon as he passes away, all sins are forgiven, he's hero worshipped, and no matter how talented a dedicated fan and writer is who tries to pick up the pieces; he's not good enough for you.

 

Harriet was completely right.  This is the only author that could have finished this series with the dignity it deserved.  GS is one of the best WoT books, and offers great promise for the final two books to come.  I've been reading this series since I was 14 and I was distraught when RJ passed away.  I had all but given up on him when he released Knife of Dreams and won me back over to the side of silly fanboy.  When Brandon was announced I had no clue what to think, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  That was the best decision regarding literature I've ever made in my life.  WoT is BACK BABY!  It's going to be completed.  It's going to be epic.  RJ's legacy is intact and wonderful.  But Sanderson deserves so much credit.  Immediately after reading GS I read Warbreaker and Elantirs.  Those are also at the top of my fantasy favorites now.  Sanderson's style is different than Jordan's but he's just as brilliant in his own right.

 

Anyway, Brandon Sanderson's style is obvious in GS and it's a good thing.  WoT needed some new perspective and Sanderson offered while staying true to the world and characters.  I wish I could hug the man.

[Moorz]

Great post John Galt.....I feel like shouting "he's back baby" too...

 

Great to see others re-energised by the series like myself.

[mabbott74]

The other scene I wasn't so in to was the Rand/Tuon meeting.  Seemed unrealistic and if I'm Rand (or Nyn) I have some very interesting information about Sul'dam that I could broadcast and shake things up a bit, no?

 

Rand needs a united Seanchan nation behind him during the last battle.  Throwing kinks into their organization would be detrimental to his overall objective.  Save that ammo after the last battle.

[Demon_AS]

Jason,

 

Your review was accurate and fair. I feel it reflects most of my ideas about the book, and I would bet that most fans agree with your views.

 

Any attacking of Sanderson - particularly one nasty comment regarding his writing this book for a paycheck - is really uncalled for.

 

Personally, I feel he did as good as job as anyone could've done with the story, and this book was worth every penny and pound I paid for it.

[Mr Ares]

It's scary that since LoC you can come to forums like this and only find negative reviews about how boring RJ's style had become and yet as soon as he passes away, all sins are forgiven, he's hero worshipped, and no matter how talented a dedicated fan and writer is who tries to pick up the pieces; he's not good enough for you.

Well, I was here before RJ passed away, and I don't recall any great turnaround in people's opinions due to his death. There were and are people who dislike PoD-CoT, while others still find things to like about them. So it was not all negative post-LoC (although wholly, or even largely, positive reviews of CoT are rather thin on the ground). Even now, I don't think you would have to look that hard to find people who disliked those books but did appreciate Sanderson's effort. Of course, it's not just a case of giving credit to Jordan for what they liked and blaming Sanderson for what they didn't, it works both ways - people who had gone off RJ's way of doing things praise BS for the things this book did right, and blame RJ for things they didn't like. I don't think either way is right, nor do I think trying to ascertain who is responsible for what (and thus who is to blame for what) is productive or helpful.

[Jaglover]

This review was 110% accurate.  I couldn't agree more with what was said.  It was by far and away the best book since Lord of Chaos.  Knife of Dreams was the first RJ book I had liked since Crown of Swords and Gathering Storm was the first book I loved since Lord of Chaos.

 

I find it more than a little pathetic and disgusting that people give credit to RJ for anything they liked about this novel and bash BS for anything that felt "off" to them.  The truth is that Brandon Sanderson saved this series from abject mediocrity.  Though it did seem like RJ could have done that himself upon reading Knife of Dreams, the fact remains that ever since Lord of Chaos this series was becoming disjointed to the point of it being unbearable.  Crossroads to Twilight was easily one of the worst fantasy books I've ever read.  The story jumped around more than a grasshopper on adrenaline and the only thing in nature that moves slower than the plot is glass deformation.

 

Robert Jordan was one of the most talented writers in my generation and is easily the best epic fantasy writer since Tolkien, but at some point he lost his way.  It's scary that since LoC you can come to forums like this and only find negative reviews about how boring RJ's style had become and yet as soon as he passes away, all sins are forgiven, he's hero worshipped, and no matter how talented a dedicated fan and writer is who tries to pick up the pieces; he's not good enough for you.

 

Harriet was completely right.  This is the only author that could have finished this series with the dignity it deserved.  GS is one of the best WoT books, and offers great promise for the final two books to come.  I've been reading this series since I was 14 and I was distraught when RJ passed away.  I had all but given up on him when he released Knife of Dreams and won me back over to the side of silly fanboy.  When Brandon was announced I had no clue what to think, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  That was the best decision regarding literature I've ever made in my life.  WoT is BACK BABY!  It's going to be completed.  It's going to be epic.  RJ's legacy is intact and wonderful.  But Sanderson deserves so much credit.  Immediately after reading GS I read Warbreaker and Elantirs.  Those are also at the top of my fantasy favorites now.  Sanderson's style is different than Jordan's but he's just as brilliant in his own right.

 

Anyway, Brandon Sanderson's style is obvious in GS and it's a good thing.  WoT needed some new perspective and Sanderson offered while staying true to the world and characters.  I wish I could hug the man.

 

I agree entirely

 

A corner had been turned by Jordon with Knife of dreams. But it is entirely wrong IMO to ignore just how poor the Wheel of Time series had become at its worst and how much a fresh perspective was needed.

 

Of course I, along with most WOT fans, was saddened by RJs death. But on the evidence of this book having the series finished by Brandon is not an inferior substitute, but a boon, that has returned the WOT series to the glory days of the early books.

 

I would second the assertion that some of the scenes felt a little pointless. But that is preferable to an entire book that feels a bit pointless.

[Jillain Sanche]

But tell Brandon that I discovered several mistakes in my book

 

For example...

 

Meidani:  "Where you attacked?"  (Supposed to be, "Were you attacked")

 

I remember seeing SEVERAL spelling and grammatical mistakes.  Not sure if thats the fault of the typist, or Brandon.

 

No, it is the fault of the management at TOR BOOKS. I got the impression that Tor pushed this through for a deadline when it should have gone back to the copyeditors for one more pass through.

 

I also saw sentences with dropped or added "have"s or "of"s, one sentence missing an object noun.

 

I work as a typesetter, and have worked in the printing and publishing industry since the early 1970s. Proofreaders are not employed in the great numbers they once were (most publishers laid them all off in the 1980s in fact), and "spellcheck" does not catch a word that is a word but the wrong word.

 

And there are no real "typists" anymore. The manuscript was undoubtedly input by Sanderson on a computer, forwarded to the publisher who converted it, probably from Word to an .rtf file, and then converted it into their own typesetting system which might be Indesign, Quark, or one of the lesser-known to the public printing industry proprietary typesetting systems.

 

We all know that Sanderson was/is under great pressure to move through this project, most of which is from us, pressure from the fans. I for one would like to see that the next two books are not released until the "t"s are crossed and the "i"s dotted, you know?

 

Getting back to the REVIEW, I thought it was spot on! Jason, you could have given more spoilers. And wow! How many fell for your joke on Asmodean. That's like me tossing the "balrogs have wings" bomb into discussions in LotR website discussions just to rile folks up. LOL (which I do once in a while)

 

As well, the first chapter of Mat seemed different, but I really liked it in any event, the humor of his creating aliases. One of RJ's underlying character developments has been that our main characters were just kids from the middle of nowhere tossed into world-changing events and having to grow up fast and some of them having some issues around that. Well, yeah, Mat is growing up and that's fine by me. I am liking him much more than I did before and he was already my favorite.

 

THUMBS UP!

[jemron]

Review this:

 

My review of your review is that I would have reviewed it the same as you reviewed it.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

Review this:

 

My review of your review is that I would have reviewed it the same as you reviewed it.

I would like to offer a review of your review: Brief and lacks depth, but mildly amusing. ***

[Shimmer]

I thought that TGS was one of the best books in the series (not including the prologue and some of the language - some of it clearly doesn't belong to Randland!).

Overall..... a grade of A-.