Rand breaking the world

[jwillis7]

So i have talked about this with some of my friends and have wanted to put it here but its hard to write so here i go.  When i was reading the books my first time through i always thought that Rand's time and Lews Therin's time were at the same spot on the wheel, but not the same turn obviously.  So when reading the prologue of the Eye of the World, you think you are seeing what is going to happen at the end of the story and now you just have to find out how you got there. 

 

My new thought is that Rand and LTT are at opposite points of the wheel.  That it is not 1 dragon per turn but 2.  We have been told that things don't happen the same way each time but there are major differences between this "turn " and LTT "turn".  I have not tried to right down all of them but i will list some.

 

So in LTT's time, someone made a Bore into DO prission, so it was whole and then they broke him out and LTT made a patch.  I dont think Rand is going to make a patch with the seals or something like them, think he is going to reimprisoned the DO.  But the question really is, is what about the "dragon" before LTT and was the DO not out then. I am sure he was so how did he get imprisoned.

 

The Ogier are talking about opening the Book of Translation and leaving this world for a time.  They did not do that in the war of the Shadow.  i think Ogier leaving is something big that happens each time, now exactly when they leave and come back could be different.

 

there are probably many more but i think i have made i point, so what i am trying to say is that i do not think Rand is going to break the world the way LTT did, now before some one brings this up

 

"For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew."

 

i do not think break in the way we think, i just think it means the world that is there after Tarmon Gai'don will be nothing like the world pre EotW.

 

And on a slightly related note, and what kind of got me on this thinking, who was the dragon before LTT.  now LTT was always referred to as THE DRAGON not THE DRAGON REBORN, so i took that to mean that when LTT came about the world was not waiting for him, as smart people (moiraine) were waiting for rand.  Or had anything to relate him to as people relate Rand to LTT.  just added to my thinking to 2 dragons per turn

 

[Blackhoof]

Dragon was the title bestowed upon LTT when he was the Lights top general, Rand is him reborn, therefore he is the Dragon Reborn, the Lights champion is called many different things, this time it was Dragon.

[jsbrads]

We are now at the end of the third age, but pre age of legends references imply at least a few more ages pre AoL, also randland is a future age of earth, but since time is a circle, it is also in our distant past, lenn went to moon in belly of an eagle and queen Elizabeth ruled the world, and USA & ussr [mosk is Moscow] had intercontinental ballistic missles pointed at each other.

[Mr Ares]

When i was reading the books my first time through i always thought that Rand's time and Lews Therin's time were at the same spot on the wheel, but not the same turn obviously.

They are different Ages in the same turning.

 

I am sure he was so how did he get imprisoned.

Shai'tan was imprisoned by the Creator at the moment of Creation.

[scott_swampy]

Rand is in the fourth Age LTT was from the Third, Or the AoL. We have been told this. And although we don’t know exactly how it is going to go down we do know what Rand needs to do.

 

This is a little tricky but I hope I can explain it. We know that in the third age they drilled into the DO's prison so at the start of the Third age the bore wasn't present, so when it comes again, for the wheel to turn correctly, it needs to be gone. Now this is different to the sealing that LTT and the 100 did because the bore can still be detected in Randland at "present". So Rand has to COMPLETLY reimprison The DO or the pattern will unravel and the wheel will stop turning, thus ending time. This, by the way, was the DO goal from the start.

 

The "New Power" that Rand heard about in his trip through the rings in the Waste was obviously the True Power that the DO gives out. Now this bit is just me speculating, but to me it seems that the DO would have had to have made this detectable in order for the AoL AS to have found it. Thus it was intentional not just an unfortunate accident. At least from the DO.

 

I hope that made sense.

 

And completely of topic here but Our Age is commonly believed to be the First age :o

 

[Ted M]

Rand is in the fourth Age LTT was from the Third, Or the AoL. We have been told this. And although we don’t know exactly how it is going to go down we do know what Rand needs to do.

 

{snip}

 

And completely of topic here but Our Age is commonly believed to be the First age :o

 

Rand is in the Third Age (see the first paragraph of every book..."In one age, called the Third Age by some...").  The Age of Legends was the Second Age.  We're probably in the First Age now.  After Tarmon Gai'don the Fourth Age will start. 

 

Of course (completely off topic), I wonder if the people of every age think of themselves as the Third Age.  There's the age that they are in, the age before (that's faded into legend), and a few fragmentary myths from the age before... everything before that is completely forgotten, so according to the memory of any age, it's pretty much always the "third" age.

[jwillis7]

we are never told or heard the forsaken call there age the second age.  They are in the same age.  The technology in LTT time was much more advanced than in Rand's.  If you say that and the start end of each age the world is broken and approximately the same amount of time passes how is rands time not so advanced.  So why, why was LTT so advanced, maybe the world only breaks after LTT "dragon" comes.  We have seen rand set up schools and such for to save knowledge when he thinks he breaks the world.  But what if he does not that would put Rand's time prime for technological advancement, till the next "dragon" comes and breaks it again. 

 

again i do not think rand is going to brake the world, i do not think another taint will be placed on the source. 

 

O and the source, the source was clean at the start of LTT time, and tainted by the end of his time, and now the opposite for Rand. that does not seem very circular to me.  Unless time stared going backwards.

 

We are not told that Rand is fated to follow LTT completely.  We assume he is because the time is a wheel thing but, why really who says we are back, or getting close to the prologue to in EotW.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

It is generally accepted on these threads that Rand lives in the third age, and LTT was from the second age, which was ended by him and his hundred companions breaking the world.

 

There is a theory, however, which states that the AOL was the first half of the age that Rand lives in, making his era the second half of (most likely) the third age, as said in chapter one of each book.

[Reyoru]

There is evidence however to suggest that it is indeed the 3rd age that rand lives in and the 2nd being the AOL. In TSR Thom is talking to elayne on the deck of the raker on the way to tanchico and says: "come to think of it, that (the next age) may be no more than a year or two off. How is the end of an Age marked? It cannot always be a cataclysm on the order of the Breaking."

Hence Thom believes that they are In the next age and that the breaking marked the end of the 2nd Age.

[crazyfool]

If they are part of the same age then why is LTT's time know as the age of legends? And I'm pretty sure Rand is not part of the 4th age because every book starts of with saying this was taking place in the third age.

[singogreatest360]

If they are part of the same age then why is LTT's time know as the age of legends? And I'm pretty sure Rand is not part of the 4th age because every book starts of with saying this was taking place in the third age.

 

That's not what they mean. Rand is Mentioned in the 4th age. Just about all of the books speak of him in positive ways, that's something that always interested me.

 

To respond to the OP this is one/the same turning of the wheel. The other turnings spoken of happened BEFORE the First age. The first age is the first age this turn.

 

And i've always had the same question: If the Dark one= instant win, why was there Any kind of war when the DO was set free the first time????

 

The answer maybe the the DO is a not what we think it is...

 

Also i agree with others that say RJ meant the First Age=Our age Our God= Creator and Devil= DO. We just aren't sure how the channeling started.....

 

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Has anyone ever figured out where our modern day continents fit into the world at Rand's time? Or vice versa, how the WoT landmass fits into our current map...?

[Lobododragao]

i've always played with the thought that randland is the old world (europe) and seanchan was the americas. nothing really to back that up. I'm sure with all of the breaking of the world stuff, geographically speaking anything can change and will with time.

[jwillis7]

i am not talking about how the people who live in the world define the "ages".  Of course people will make dates per big events that happen in the world, just read the first part of every glossary.  So what people call the ages is not what i am talking about.  I am talking about what happens to rand, and what I had assumed will happen until i had this thought.  So why do you think rand is going to repeat the same thing LTT did

[Hallow]

 

O and the source, the source was clean at the start of LTT time, and tainted by the end of his time, and now the opposite for Rand. that does not seem very circular to me.  Unless time stared going backwards.

 

 

Right Ill try to explain this. Rand and LTT are not in separate turnings of the wheel but in separate ages in the same turning. The wheel has 7 spokes, something that might imply that there is 7 ages to each turning. The first age is widely accepted as our age, the second is the age of legends which ended with the breaking and the tainting of Saidin. Finally the third age is the age where Rand lives.

 

Therefore when Rand cleansed Saidin it made it possible that channeling could be discovered in the next turning while being cleaned, and once more tainted by the dark one, only to be once again cleansed. (this is a huge speculation by me obviously)

 

So in short, Rand is not going to do everything LTT did, they are in the same turning, they are merely the same soul or spirit reborn through the pattern as the Light's champion. Rand has to seal in the DO again so that the bore can be drilled again in the next turning, only to be patched up with seals by that turning's champion.

[Jemlin]

Here is a thought...forgive me if it was mentioned before...but the mention of the True Power being the reason for the Bore being drilled into gave me an idea:

 

1. Ok, so re-sealing the bore with Sadar and Sadin could risk them being tainted again, so, bad idea to use them.

 

2. Currently, only those granted permission by the DO can channel the True Source.

 

3. The DO is not all knowing.  So, perhaps, in a fashion, it can be fooled.

 

4. MOridin and Rand seem to be connected in some fashion..and I think its unclear if the DO knows this

 

So, given that...what if at some point we do see the Mind/Body swap we have all heard about.  Rand control's Moridin's body...and through Moridin's connection/permission to channel the True Power, using IT to seal the DO.  He might be able to do it before the DO can withdraw its Permission, paradoxically using its own power against itself in some fashion.

 

The DO can not then strike out and taint the One Power, and the sealing would be much different than it was during the AoL

[jwillis7]

but if Rand does not just reseal the Bore but reimprisons the DO completely then they would not have to worry about the power being tainted.

 

[Jemlin]

but if Rand does not just reseal the Bore but reimprisons the DO completely then they would not have to worry about the power being tainted.

 

 

Yes and No.

 

Who knows what the DO can do before it gets sealed, and I think we can rule out that just because the DO isn't actively present, it doesn't mean its effects do not remain.

[Beren]

Also, RJ said that anyone who channels the True Power in Shayol Gul would be fried instantly.

 

 

 

# Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World we saw True Power to heal insanity. The One Power cannot be used to heal insanity. The True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.

 

from http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/plots-characters-and-wheel-of-time.html

[Blackhoof]

I think that both Saidin and Saidar have to be used to reseal the DO properly. The females refused to be a part of LTTs plan to reseal the bore (whiny beetches; their plan was to use the Choedan Kal, but that failed so they decided to screw up LTTs plan by pledging to the Faithful Concord or something like that), and so LTT went ahead, saidin was tainted, and the world broke. If both halves are used by a huge, massive Circle of men and women, with the CK, then the DO is scrrewed.

[Beren]

And now they have destroyed the female CK... That has gotta have some bad consequences.

[Mr Ares]

Rand is in the fourth Age LTT was from the Third,

Rand is Third, LTT is Second (or first half of Third, if you like that theory).

 

If you say that and the start end of each age the world is broken

Why would you say that?

 

O and the source, the source was clean at the start of LTT time, and tainted by the end of his time, and now the opposite for Rand. that does not seem very circular to me. Unless time stared going backwards.

Or unless you are ignoring all the other Ages of the Wheel. Rand and LTT are part of the same turning. It hasn't cycled back to the AoL yet, and it won't for a very long time.

 

If they are part of the same age then why is LTT's time know as the age of legends?

Popular misconception? Fel's comments in LoC are the basis of the theory, he mentions the Bore being whole when the Third Age comes around again, not just patched. Thus the situation during the AoL is referred to as the Third Age.

 

So why do you think rand is going to repeat the same thing LTT did

We don't. Rand is Prophesied to break the world, but I don't think anyone takes that as meaning the Breaking in the sense of the Time of Madness.

[draconian]

Also, RJ said that anyone who channels the True Power in Shayol Gul would be fried instantly.

 

 

 

# Access to the True Power is a matter of wanting it and the Dark One letting you. NOT black cords. In Prologue to The Eye of the World we saw True Power to heal insanity. The One Power cannot be used to heal insanity. The True Power used at Shayol Ghul will fry you instantly.

 

from http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/plots-characters-and-wheel-of-time.html

asmodean was cut off from the DO and true power when the black cord was cut so it doesnt make any sense

unless that cord only lets DO watch ur actions

 

[Blackhoof]

If RJ has said it, then it is so. Besides, it was never stated that Asmo couldn't use the TP, and if he could, he was apparently a wuss so he might not have.

 

I dont believe that the world is broken after each age, but something momentous occurs, such as the Breaking, the rediscovery of channeling (which ended the 1st age, and TG, which will most likely be the age-ender for the 3rd age.

[jsbrads]

There could be many different patterns of ages,before it circles back around

 

1 wolf brother age

2 legends

3 saidin tainted

4 everyone happy

5 Saidar tainted

6 everyone happy

7 noone channels

8 technological age

9 the dark ages

back to 1 ^

 

any step could be skipped and any step could be added.