Your Least Favourite Plot Twists

[Wingendosering]

Well, the title says it all!  What are your least favourite plot twists throughout the series?  Although this is my favourite fantasy series, I have quite a number of them.

 

In no particular order:

1.  Egwene becoming Amyrlin.  There are reasons, but they don't seem to stack up for me.

2.  Most of Mat's plotline...somehow his entire personality seems full of contradictions.

3.  Accepted and Novices flocking to Salidar when the location is secret to anybody but Aes Sedai looking for eyes and ears.

4.  The huge build up to Elayne ascension to the Lion Throne and its abrupt, unsatisfactory ending.

5.  The huge build up to the battle between the White Tower factions getting partially resolved without bloodshed and a kidnap that doesn't make sense (she should have been stilled).

6.  Siuan Sanche being tortured and stilled through some unexplained laws.

7.  Rand losing his hand.

8.  The Wise Ones orders that put Aviendha closer to Rand.

 

Well, that should do for now.  What are yours?

[kasper11]

Methinks you do not understand what a plot twist is....plot twist is something unexpected...just about everything you mentioned was foreshadowed and anticipated.

[Mr. Micawber]

Mat's only full of contradictions if you take him at his word, specifically his protestations to the contrary that he's no bloody hero.

 

It's been very, very, very well written that, while Mat is a total roustabout, when you get him to promise something, he will absolutely keep his word - and he goes *way* beyond the call of duty to do so. Siuan obliquely mentions this when she tells Mat about her uncle Huan, who died going to a burning building to save kids, even though he was a total rapscallion.

 

Moreover, although we don't have this streak of responsibility referenced directly by someone else until Eggs does it in LOC, reading his POV in TDR makes it very, very, very clear that he's absolutely a man of his word. He grumbles on several occasions about the girls not thinking he'll fulfill his promise to deliver the letter to Morgase, even though it becomes increasingly clear that somebody wants him dead badly. He wrongly connects this to the letter - in fact Elan Morin is trying to murder the two spare ta'veren - but he says irrespective of this threat to his life, he'll deliver the bloody letter.

 

Then, once he gets to Caemlyn, he overhears Rah'vin ordering Elayne's assassination, and he travels to Tear to kill the guy. No arse like Comar is going to going to kill Elayne on his watch.

 

Then, in Tear, he discovers the SuperGirls are kidnapped, and he thinks to himself, *hell no*, they can't do that to any friends of mine, so he goes in to rescue them. He himself thinks it's ridiculous, but he does it nonetheless.

 

In FOH, he decides, I just can't take being near an assassination magnet like Rand - forgetting that he's been a target, too, since Book 1 - and leaves. But then he sees the Tairens and Cairhienin about to get slaughtered, and he thinks to himself, aw, hell, I can't let that happen. And lo and behold, he creates the Band of the Red Hand.

 

Then he promises to Rand to see Elayne and Aviendha to Caemlyn, and that's why he does suicidally brave things in ACOS. Not to mention giving Eggs the royal or rather Amyrlin treatment before he leaves Salidar to show you can't treat Two Rivers people like crap.

 

He always protests in his head that he's the same good for nothing rapscallion he's always been. Mat is not contradictory, he's trying to trick himself. He's really the only sane man in the story, he's a regular guy who's got a knack for battle and dice and pulling chestnuts out of the fire. But in fact, as Moiraine really recognizes in her letter and Siuan in her reminiscence of Huan, Mat has always been a fundamentally Good guy. He might be a lazy prankster who's got no use for formality or anything like that, but he is, actually, the most noble character in the series, if we think about what it means to be noble.

 

He's a man of his word, he's absolutely loyal, he'll go to bat for you, he'll save people he's barely known, and he's got a huge heart. I think it's interesting that, with everyone pairing up, Mat's not paired up with his girl (until much later than everyone else in the series), he's paired up with a small ugly boy who's lost his parents, and in his treatment of Olver, we see Mat's compassion and loyalty and love for his friends. Remember, way back in Book 2, it's Mat who actually sounds the Horn to save Eggs. He grumbles more than Perrin and Rand combined, he lacks their otherworldly powers, since his superpowers are more Batman - gadgets like his medallion and later Aludra's cannons, and his knife-edge brain - than Superman or Spiderman. He doesn't *like* to put himself in danger, but then, who really does?

 

But when the time comes, his better nature manifests itself, and he's always there when the fires are hottest and highest.

[Beren]

For actual plot twists, the only thing I have a serious problem with at the moment is Avhienda's new ability to know what Ter'Angreal do. Seems like that was pretty much out of the blue.

 

The Gholam was a surprise, but I it had been mentioned so many times before that I should have gotten a clue.

 

Ummmm... let's see... the Forsaken being resurrected over and over again is probably the only other thing I can think of right now. Don't remember any foreshadowing of that.

[OptimusPrime]

Ummmm... let's see... the Forsaken being resurrected over and over again is probably the only other thing I can think of right now. Don't remember any foreshadowing of that.

 

Eye of the World prologue, Elan Morin tells Lews Therin he can have Ilyena back if he joined the Shadow.

 

I dont like the fact that the Heroes of the Horn mirror the Dragon in battle and not the Hornblower. It just seems like a pointless connection

[Elgee]

Just about everything is foreshadowed, so I'll mention "things" I don't particularly like.

 

1. Elayne falling in love with Rand. They met once, for crying out loud!

2. Tom and Moiraine. WTF? Where did that come from ??

3. Rolan being killed  :'(

4. Resurrection Boulevard. When the penny dropped (for me) about the Forsaken being resurrected, my first reaction was disappointed disbelief. A feeling of "ok this is going just a bit too far in the godmoding direction for my taste".

 

ps: Nice one, Mr Micawber!

[Luckers]

3.  Accepted and Novices flocking to Salidar when the location is secret to anybody but Aes Sedai looking for eyes and ears.

 

They didn't flock. It's stated that they were brought by Aes Sedai.

 

 

 

1. Elayne falling in love with Rand. They met once, for crying out loud!

 

Yup, that annoyed me too. And how she was speaking about 'taking him' months after their half an hour meeting.

 

2. Tom and Moiraine. WTF? Where did that come from ??

 

I thought that was fairly well supported in a subtle way. Moiraine's comment about knowing her husband and her promise that she would see Thom again. Thom's comment about Moiraine being a fine looking woman.

 

I did find the letter in KoD to be way too blunt about this though.

 

4. Resurrection Boulevard. When the penny dropped (for me) about the Forsaken being resurrected, my first reaction was disappointed disbelief. A feeling of "ok this is going just a bit too far in the godmoding direction for my taste".

 

Well he is the lord of the grave.

 

 

[Elgee]

2. Tom and Moiraine. WTF? Where did that come from ??

 

I thought that was fairly well supported in a subtle way. Moiraine's comment about knowing her husband and her promise that she would see Thom again. Thom's comment about Moiraine being a fine looking woman.

 

I did find the letter in KoD to be way too blunt about this though.

 

It was supported in a very slight and subtle way, yes, but ... it makes very little sense to me. I just don't find enough motivation for a romance, there. The same as with Rand and Elayne, but them being horny teenagers gives some excuse.

 

 

4. Resurrection Boulevard. When the penny dropped (for me) about the Forsaken being resurrected, my first reaction was disappointed disbelief. A feeling of "ok this is going just a bit too far in the godmoding direction for my taste".

 

Well he is the lord of the grave.

 

I know  :P

And the resurrected ones have provided some good stories, but still ... it's not one of my favourite plot twists.

[MierinWru]

2. Tom and Moiraine. WTF? Where did that come from ??

 

Just as a sidenote: Why the hell can't ANYBODY in WoT stay single?

They all find the love of their life during the course of those books. And I mean like really everybody...

[Thorum]

Bashere. Verin. Cadsuane. Egwene. Logain. Taim. Lanfear ;D

 

All of those main and mainish characters haven't found love yet. Not counting Aram. :-*

[Bob T Dwarf]

Not really plot twists, but what I call The Cheezy Bits:

 

1. Kitten-up-a-tree-Rand, or How Fate Always Intervenes To Save Our Hero's Bacon.

 

Aginor burns himself to the ground???

Moiraine steps out of the crowd and turns Bel'al into shimmery bits???

Nynaeve miraculously turning up in T'a'R and making Rahvin a big enough bonfire that Rand can finally off him???

Moridin miraculously being in just the right place at just the right time to fish Rand out of a hole???

Mashadar killing Sam for him???

 

2. The whole cheezy Crossed Balefire Streams Forge Mystical Psychic Connection schtick.

3. The Overusing The Bowl of Winds Makes OP Wonky but Burning Down One Of The CK Doesn't Do Jack inconsistency.

4. Sure, Mat's a great guy, but could he please stop whining for five minutes.  WAY overdone.

5. Rand's whole I Can't Hurt Girls thing.  If she's tryna kill ya, be man enough to defend yourself already.

 

But most of all the Nobody Ever Really Talks To Anybody Else thing.  Most of the "drama" in the series is the artificial result of easily avoided lack of meaningful communication.

[Nightstrike]

1. Kitten-up-a-tree-Rand, or How Fate Always Intervenes To Save Our Hero's Bacon.

I take it you don't like the concept of ta'veren then?

 

But most of all the Nobody Ever Really Talks To Anybody Else thing.  Most of the "drama" in the series is the artificial result of easily avoided lack of meaningful communication.

Yeah, I think there is a serious lack of communication among the Light's characters. That's one thing I don't really like that much. I can understand that the shadowsworn have such issues, but it shouldn't happen all that much among our heroes, IMO.

 

[Luckers]

Quote from: Luckers on Today at 12:38:00 AM

Quote

2. Tom and Moiraine. WTF? Where did that come from ??

 

I thought that was fairly well supported in a subtle way. Moiraine's comment about knowing her husband and her promise that she would see Thom again. Thom's comment about Moiraine being a fine looking woman.

 

I did find the letter in KoD to be way too blunt about this though.

 

It was supported in a very slight and subtle way, yes, but ... it makes very little sense to me. I just don't find enough motivation for a romance, there. The same as with Rand and Elayne, but them being horny teenagers gives some excuse.

 

That was sort of my point--I didn't see it in Rand and Elayne either, but with Moiraine and Thom there are clear indications in the story that more is going on than we know. We so rarely get Moiraine's POV, and we never get Thom's, yet there are indications of deeper thoughts, and thus reason.

 

Moiraine in particular seems to have had knowledge of it through Min and the rings, and thus was the one to open the dialogue, but there is indication Thom was there too--and note her letter said 'Mat does not hold me in the same affection you apparently do.' Apparently do. That shows that Moiraine was relying on more than personal experience in this.

 

I dunno... I always liked what was building between Moiraine and Thom. I just thought KoD brought it to a head too bluntly following the long running ideal. A simple warm tone to Thom in the note, and then a tender, but awkward scene in the Tower of Ghenjei would have solved this.

 

Bashere. Verin. Cadsuane. Egwene. Logain. Taim. Lanfear

 

All of those main and mainish characters haven't found love yet. Not counting Aram.

 

Well... Bashere has a wife (kinda how he ended up with a Faile), Egwene has Gawyn, Logain has Gabrelle...

[Bob T Dwarf]

I take it you don't like the concept of ta'veren then?

 

Ta'veren is OK, it's just been overused.  I mean Rand IS the hero here, so we all know he's gonna make it to the climactic scene no matter what, but did Jordan have to quite so blatantly make him a Mary Sue?

 

I mean - HEEEERE'S  BIG-BAD AGINOR!  Ooops, guess not. ???

HEEEERE'S BIG-BAD BEL'AL!  Oooops, guess not.

THEEERRRE'S REALLY-BIG-BAD SAMMAEL!  Ummmm, where'd he go?  That confrontation had been building for three books, and then pfffft, nada, zilch.  What a letdown.  More like a THUD.

[Elgee]

*eyes Luckers* ... men! You just don't know how these romance things are supposed to work!  ::)

 

There's supposed to be a build-up - he wonders, she wonders, someone puts a spoke in the wheels, oh will the 2 ever get together ooooooohhhh sweet!

 

Not "Tom and Moiraine are now an item" ... guh?

[Nightstrike]

:-\  I don't know if Gabrelle is Logain's "love of his life". Berelain hasn't found the love or her life either. But she will. RJ liked the love stories.  :)   Anyway, that's not something I dislike about WoT.

 

I mean - HEEEERE'S  BIG-BAD AGINOR!  Ooops, guess not.

HEEEERE'S BIG-BAD BEL'AL!  Oooops, guess not.

THEEERRRE'S REALLY-BIG-BAD SAMMAEL!  Ummmm, where'd he go?

Yeah, they are dysfunctional these mangy Forsaken.  :D

[OptimusPrime]

I take it you don't like the concept of ta'veren then?

 

Ta'veren is OK, it's just been overused.  I mean Rand IS the hero here, so we all know he's gonna make it to the climactic scene no matter what, but did Jordan have to quite so blatantly make him a Mary Sue?

 

I mean - HEEEERE'S  BIG-BAD AGINOR!  Ooops, guess not. ???

HEEEERE'S BIG-BAD BEL'AL!  Oooops, guess not.

THEEERRRE'S REALLY-BIG-BAD SAMMAEL!  Ummmm, where'd he go?  That confrontation had been building for three books, and then pfffft, nada, zilch.  What a letdown.  More like a THUD.

 

Shows how used to one on ones the Forsaken arent.

 

Sammaels area of expertise is military defense. Graendals is the mind. Semirhages is suffering. Ishamaels is philosophy. Blah blah

 

Rands is search and destroy. In less than two years he realistically became the ultimate weapon. The other Forsaken didnt

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rands is search and destroy. In less than two years he realistically became the ultimate weapon. The other Forsaken didnt

 

Except that he really hasn't.  Someone or something intervened with Balthamel, Bel'al, Lanfear, and Sammael.  Aginor killed himself through sheer incompetence.  All of the victories against Ba'alzamon came too easily, and are pretty fishy for that reason.  Asmo was a pretty cheap victory, too.  6'5" farmer kid can out-wrestle effete musician - big surprise there.

 

Rahvin is the only one he had to work for and he would have lost there if not for Nynaeve and Moggy.

 

Part of Rand's problem is that he thinks he's a bigger badass than he merits.

[Luckers]

*eyes Luckers* ... men! You just don't know how these romance things are supposed to work!  ::)

 

There's supposed to be a build-up - he wonders, she wonders, someone puts a spoke in the wheels, oh will the 2 ever get together ooooooohhhh sweet!

 

Not "Tom and Moiraine are now an item" ... guh?

 

I'm very romantic! I facebook stalk many people!

 

 

[Elgee]

*eyes Luckers* ... men! You just don't know how these romance things are supposed to work!  ::)

 

There's supposed to be a build-up - he wonders, she wonders, someone puts a spoke in the wheels, oh will the 2 ever get together ooooooohhhh sweet!

 

Not "Tom and Moiraine are now an item" ... guh?

 

I'm very romantic! I facebook stalk many people!

 

 

 

 

ROFL!!

 

Careful there - Mr Ares might get jealous  ;)

[OptimusPrime]

I dislike the way Perrins importance is displayed. It is so less obvious than Mats, I just cant really be bothered with Perrin anymore. It really irks me that Ishamael/Moridin didnt gather the Forsaken way earlier and tell them Mat and Perrin were keys. Even a god damn Myrddraal knew they should be killed, knew who they were, knew they existed. The reasons for them not knowing or doing anything about Mat and Perrin earlier on will never convince me. I think Moridin setting the Forsaken at them in KoD shouldnt have been done. Whats the point? The Shadow took so long to make that a priority that it annoyed me that it happened at all.

[Beren]

About the whole Asmo bit. Rand and Asmo were both drawing equal amounts of Saidin through the Male CK. Rand also had his Angreal which was enough to tip the balances. Nothing cheap there...

[Ahaz Flagg]

  I have 2 plot twist that I do not like at all, and it has more to do with the people in the twist.

 

1.  Faile getting kidnapped, most dragged out useless plot in the book.

2.  Elayne's rise to the Queen, most certinaly way to dragged out, and almost all of it pointless to the story.  Could have spent 5 pages in the prologue to cover this.

[rygar]

 

Yeah, I think there is a serious lack of communication among the Light's characters. That's one thing I don't really like that much. I can understand that the shadowsworn have such issues, but it shouldn't happen all that much among our heroes, IMO.

 

 

Agreed, but I also think we tend to minimize the difficulties of communications in a non technological society.

[rygar]

  I have 2 plot twist that I do not like at all, and it has more to do with the people in the twist.

 

1.  Faile getting kidnapped, most dragged out useless plot in the book.

2.  Elayne's rise to the Queen, most certinaly way to dragged out, and almost all of it pointless to the story.  Could have spent 5 pages in the prologue to cover this.

 

Yeah, #1 never sat well with me.  ACtually, there are way to many kidnappings for my taste throughout whole series.  But back to #1, the Shaido don't fall unless Faile is kidnapped.  It was the wheel forcing events to shape up so Perrin would destroy them