Min, Elayne, or Aviendha?

[Jemlin]

I like all three girls, though I am sad too that Aviendha has not been expanded on recently, she seems in limbo and more dedicated to her First Sister Elayne than to anything else.  She has so many possibilities and talents, and too many hesitations.

 

 

I have always thought the three girls were necessary, as they added a symbolic value to The Dragon being tied to the land:

Aviendha:  A tie to the past (through the Aiel and their old connection with Aes Sedai and the Dragon)

Elayne:  A tie to the present (as a present ruler and Aes Sedai, very much connected with present struggles)

Min:  A tie to the future/hope (her viewings glimpse the future, and she also seems to have a lot of hope for the good)

[Wingendosering]

So who did you vote for? :P

[Mr. Micawber]

In Elayne's defense (not that i'm picking her), she did spend about a month or two with him in the stone(remember Moiraine getting ticked about how long he was waiting?).

 

And in Min's defense, it isn't like the only thing she does for Rand is in bed.

 

And in Rand's (or RJ's) defense, remember that Rand is insane by the time he admits he loves all three.  Besides which, RJ did put in place the mechanism for sorting out his love life a long time ago (sister-wives).  which, of course, means Min is likely doomed, which in turn is likely why RJ gave her the most prominent role in the love story now, both to make an impact at the climactic moment and too give her fans a bone.  Which is a shame, 'cause she's my favorite. 

 

Irrespective of what happens to her in TGS or the other two books, she'll definitely still be around in the end, which we know because of Nicola's foretelling in LOC:

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance out the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

 

And because of the Wise Ones' dreaming, also in LOC:

 

"Melaine and Bair dreamed of you [Rand] on a boat with three women whose faces they could not see and a scale tilting first one way and then the other. Melaine and Amys dreamed of a man standing by your side with a dagger to your throat, but you did not see him. Bair and Amys dreamed of you cutting the wetlands in two with a sword. All three had this dream, which makes it especially significant. Rain, coming from a bowl. There are snares and pitfalls around the bowl. If the right hands pick it up, they will find a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl. If the wrong hands, the world is doomed. The key to finding the bowl is to find the one who is no longer."

 

(both from the WoT FAQ entry on Miscellaneous Prophecies)

[buckeyebull64]

Wingendosering: i know this, but she did have ample time to develope a crush even if she didn't talk to him much (who hasn't done something like that, at her age?)  im just saying it didnt come out of the blue.

 

Mr. Micawber: It's not that Min won't survive the Last Battle, but I doubt the story ends right after Rand's victory/defeat.  "the world not done with battle" supports that.  there's still danger.

[Alternate34]

My feeling, though I haven't read the books in a while, is that Min doesn't challenge Rand enough.  It's not really her personality really as she isn't really experienced at all with the affairs he is dealing with, but she lies down a lot for him (HA! literally).  That is one thing I appreciated about Elayne and Aviendha.  They do challenge him.

 

I also agree that the love between all of the ladies and Rand is not particularly fleshed out.  I know love can't be explained, but there doesn't seem to be enough that fleshes out the relationships at all.

[Wingendosering]

She doesn't, that's true.  But I take it as a sign of respect rather than her being a lackey.

 

The way the four way love is done seems more for the women (I know how stupid that sounds, I know people that refuse to read this series simply because the main char has three wives) than for Rand.  It seems like RJ bit off more than he could chew and struggled to try and find a way to make the whole four way love thing realistic.  He wanted it to seem beneficial for all parties.

 

Rands thoughts are hard to discern.  Is he really in love with them?  Hard to tell.  He certainly doesn't obsess about them quite as much as they do about him, but it certainly seems that he loves Min at the very least.  The romance tends to seem rather tacked on in WoT, because it's just so clearly not a primary focus.

However, the few times when that romance portion of the story really hit you tend to be seen through the womens' side of things.  Min thinking about going to see Rand for books 3-6, Elayne keeping the feathers he intended to turn into flowers for her, and Aviendha (she has way too few POVs!) sags against a wall after he shames her and thinks about what a tangled mess he makes her thoughts and her world.  Elayne always asking how Rand is doing during her T'A'R meetings is also evidence of this.  To back their claims on him, Min seems to be doing just fine, but as first-sisters, Elayne and Avi become a package deal and end up sort of equalling Min's claim to him (if that makes any sense).

 

I also get the twisted impression that as clan chief (or chief of chiefs) among the Aiel, Rand gets two wives and the third is simply designed to satisfy LTT, especially because of the Elayne/Ilyena resemblance.

[Mr Ares]

Elayne is supposed to be a modern-day ilyena I think.

Yes, Elayne being blonde does make for a compelling case.

 

she did have ample time to develope a crush even if she didn't talk to him much (who hasn't done something like that, at her age?)

Me. I doubt my wife would have appreciated it.

[Amayahoshi]

She doesn't, that's true.  But I take it as a sign of respect rather than her being a lackey.

 

Hmm. I would say that challenging someone is a sign of respect - it shows that they are on an equal footing, and are comfortable enough to say whats on their mind rather than shying away. Not that I think Min does this, she's told him many times that hes a woolheaded sheepherder :p

 

I voted for Elayne, mainly due to her hair, as I imagine it, to be the closest to ginger in the books and I heart ginger hair :p

 

Nah, I feel that in political terms, shes a good match as she can bring the support on Andor to his cause. Also, I see Elayne as a character who would be able to hold her own at the Dragon Reborns side without being a liability / target as she could hold her own. Sure Avi and to some extent Min could too, but I see Elayne as the more competant of the three in this respect.

 

On a personal level, I'm unsure really. I see Elayne as a mature, independant woman who is strong enough to be the Dragon Reborns support (not that the other two couldn't either). I really liked the scene where Rand and Elayne first met also, and my impressions from then would be that they would make a good couple. Thats about all I got.

[OptimusPrime]

Voted Aviendha.

 

I like her in general because, as many have noted about the series, there are many characters who see their lives change and many ways in which new bridges are created between nations and societies, at Rands doing despite it being a side effect rather than intentional. I see Aviendha as the bridge between the Aiel and the rest of the world.

 

This part isnt a main thing at all, but Elayne comes second Im afraid because shes done some good stuff, is an interesting channeler, and I see the end of her path being that she is famous, her name being the newest example of great Queens of Andor. She had to secure her own throne in a time where the Dragon walked the earth, she is an full yet unbound Aes Sedai of incredible strength, and she "almost singlehandedly" pulled down the Black Ajah, all the while making "new discoveries" with the One Power and being the first Third Ager to have a female Warder.

 

Elaynes going to have a good place at the end, yet Aviendha still takes the nugget for me on where she will end up because as near-Sister to that famous Queen she will most likely be known well in Andor, and the fact that she is Aiel in high graces of the Queen allows Andor to have a brilliant relationship with the Aiel after Tarmon Gaidon. At the end, I see Aviendha as being the face of the worlds new improved opinion of the Aiel.

 

As for pre-Tarmon Gaidon, Aviendha holds top place of the three because her PoVs are interesting, she shows us the inner workings of ji'e'toh and we learn that her standards are very high even for Aiel, and when others do as she they are scorned for "boasting" yet the high standards are expected of Aviendha. She is developing on a Wise One level and a wetlander level and I think her character development is by far more interesting than Elayne. She is funny without being comical, and overall Im pretty sure she'd be in my top five female Wheel of Time Light characters.

[Thorn]

There's a standard blurb in psychology textbooks about how love can be broken apart into "companionate," "passionate," and "romantic" love. It's not hard to see how Min, Aviendha, and Elayne fit into those three.

[OptimusPrime]

There's a standard blurb in psychology textbooks about how love can be broken apart into "companionate," "passionate," and "romantic" love. It's not hard to see how Min, Aviendha, and Elayne fit into those three.

 

This kind of observation intrigues me. I am sure they are not coincedence, it feels like we get these glimpses into how RJ thought. Good job for spotting that.

[OptimusPrime]

P.S. Aviendha seems to be geared up for a Forsaken rivalry. Ive mentioned in other threads how much I like some of the female Forsaken lineups and I would very much like Aviendha to get one. She has the instincts of a warrior and it'd be good to see her in a One Power battle against a worthy target. But... please not Graendal, if she beat Graendal it would feel unrealistic to me as Graendal seems way too skillful.

[Wingendosering]

There's a standard blurb in psychology textbooks about how love can be broken apart into "companionate," "passionate," and "romantic" love. It's not hard to see how Min, Aviendha, and Elayne fit into those three.

 

This kind of observation intrigues me. I am sure they are not coincedence, it feels like we get these glimpses into how RJ thought. Good job for spotting that.

 

Same here.  But who represents which?  Min sorta covers all three bases on her own :S.

[crazyfool]

I definitely chose min.

 

Avi is cool but I can't really see how Rand can love her. Its not like they connect or anything.

 

Elayne is just annoying, how she's always whining about her problems and how she thinks everyone should respect her because she's strong with the one power.

 

Min is just a cool character and from the way RJ describes her she seems the hottest and most modern.

 

 

[crazyfool]

There's a standard blurb in psychology textbooks about how love can be broken apart into "companionate," "passionate," and "romantic" love. It's not hard to see how Min, Aviendha, and Elayne fit into those three.

 

This kind of observation intrigues me. I am sure they are not coincedence, it feels like we get these glimpses into how RJ thought. Good job for spotting that.

 

Same here.  But who represents which?  Min sorta covers all three bases on her own :S.

 

Min is Rands companion-she spends the most time with him

 

Aviendha is the passionate one-I dont think theres a need for explanation there

 

and Elayne is the Romantic-Just the way she thinks/acts around him its like a story tale love.

[Ashaman Kovan]

P.S. Aviendha seems to be geared up for a Forsaken rivalry. Ive mentioned in other threads how much I like some of the female Forsaken lineups and I would very much like Aviendha to get one. She has the instincts of a warrior and it'd be good to see her in a One Power battle against a worthy target. But... please not Graendal, if she beat Graendal it would feel unrealistic to me as Graendal seems way too skillful.

 

Graendal seems way too skillful at what? Compulsion? That's about the extent of what we've really seen her do with The One Power.

[OptimusPrime]

P.S. Aviendha seems to be geared up for a Forsaken rivalry. Ive mentioned in other threads how much I like some of the female Forsaken lineups and I would very much like Aviendha to get one. She has the instincts of a warrior and it'd be good to see her in a One Power battle against a worthy target. But... please not Graendal, if she beat Graendal it would feel unrealistic to me as Graendal seems way too skillful.

 

Graendal seems way too skillful at what? Compulsion? That's about the extent of what we've really seen her do with The One Power.

 

We havent seen her in much of a situation that cant be resolved with Compulsion. Plus she would probably just Compel Aviendha anyway, just like Moghedien does to Nynaeve and whoever else early in the series. I think Graendal is too skillful to let herself get into a one on one fight. After all, many think she killed Asmodean meaning she could very well have been right under Rands nose without him realizing.

[Ashaman Kovan]

P.S. Aviendha seems to be geared up for a Forsaken rivalry. Ive mentioned in other threads how much I like some of the female Forsaken lineups and I would very much like Aviendha to get one. She has the instincts of a warrior and it'd be good to see her in a One Power battle against a worthy target. But... please not Graendal, if she beat Graendal it would feel unrealistic to me as Graendal seems way too skillful.

 

Graendal seems way too skillful at what? Compulsion? That's about the extent of what we've really seen her do with The One Power.

 

We havent seen her in much of a situation that cant be resolved with Compulsion. Plus she would probably just Compel Aviendha anyway, just like Moghedien does to Nynaeve and whoever else early in the series. I think Graendal is too skillful to let herself get into a one on one fight. After all, many think she killed Asmodean meaning she could very well have been right under Rands nose without him realizing.

 

We haven't seen her in many confrontations period. Plus compulsion doesn't work when someone is already holding the power. Nynaeve and Elayne weren't when Moghedian got them in Tanchico. At least I don't think. It may have just been their inexperience as well though. Which they've mostly overcome. To a degree. So I think if somehow Graendal and Avi were forced into a direct confrontaion it would be very realistic for Aviendha to win. Which was what you said that I didn't agree with.

[RedEagle]

Lmao well done Hallow.  Elayne and Avi fans, post away!  What made you choose one of them over Min?

 

I've got this thing about redheads.

  :-*

[WWWwombat]

I voted Elayne.  I like everything about her.  She's really really hot, and very accepting.  I even love how she has a huge sweet tooth.  As someone else said, she seems to me be the most mature of the three.  She knows what she wants and goes for it, whether it's Rand or the Lion Throne, or being Aes Sedai or ter'angreal or whatever.  She's not only beautiful, but she's really cute.

[OptimusPrime]

This is a good thread as each persons comments on their favorite reminds me of what I like about them. Min has never appealed to me in any way other than her viewings. That is not to say I dont enjoy characters without abilites, but none of Mins actions ever intrigue me, she seems bland in comparison to most IMO. Im starting to like Elayne a bit more because of this thread, but Aviendha still stands at the front in my eyes.

[Wingendosering]

Nice, the tie between Avi and Elayne has finally been broken...  Things are more or less where I expected them to be now.  Min's only fault as far as I've been able to see is as somebody else said, her lack of questinoing towards Rand.  She seems a little too meek.  However, this could be seen as respect for his failing mind.  Also, Rand patting her hand alot bothers me...but as characters go, despite all the good points made on this thread for the others, Min's still number 1.

[Red Hand Man]

Lmao well done Hallow.  Elayne and Avi fans, post away!  What made you choose one of them over Min?

 

I've got this thing about redheads.

  :-*

 

Agree.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

Redheads....**shudders and makes Seanchan gesture to ward off evil**

 

 

[crazyfool]

Redheads....**shudders and makes Seanchan gesture to ward off evil**

 

 

I think there's a difference between red heads and gingers.