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Min, Elayne, or Aviendha?


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Min, Elayne, or Avi? Please read post first.  

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  1. 1. Min, Elayne, or Avi? Please read post first.

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So I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss.  Which of Rand's future wives do you like the most?  I've seen alot of ill will towards Elayne over the years, so here are my predictions:

1. Min

2. Avi

3. Elayne

 

Here's why (and an explanation of my vote):

Elayne - Elayne has several problems that cause people to think ill of her.  Firstly, she seems like a bit of a gimmick...you know 'the hero gets the princess' sort of thing.

Second, she always keeps the same company.  She has some companions that come and go, Vandene, Adeleas, Mat, Aviendha, and Valan Luca all come to mind.  But there are characters she never seperates from and when this occurs the chemistry is lost and her POVs grow stale.  Nynaeve and Birgitte are good examples.

Thirdly, she seems to have about four different personalities.  a) The snobby princess that is used to getting what she wants and expects to keep getting preferential treatment form everybody.  b)  The naive girl that's always been bound by the rules of nobles and wants to see some adventure.  c)  The devious, intelligent politition and capable, empathetic partner (what Rand usually sees).  And d)  the honourbound Queen that lets duty contorl all of her decisions.

These personalities seem to switch back and forth to suit the situation and move the plot in the way RJ wanted.  However, they make for a moody character that doesn't agree with herself and makes her hard to predict.

 

Aviendha - Was a very interesting character but provides very little use plotwise.  In TSR and TFOH, she was a fantastic character, but as time went on, her role dwindled and she ended up being a one-dimensional side-character that doesn't really evolve.  Her whole method of falling in love with Rand seems flawed to me, because the Wise Ones (seemingly unexplained orders) ended up forcing them together accidentally (I attribute Rhuidean to them as well).  The more books she's in the less interesting she seems to become and how much she cares for Rand rarely, if ever, shows.

 

Min - I voted for her, to me she is the best by a mile.  She has strengths for her case, but also benefits from the others' weaknesses.  She's the only one that seems to actually go out of her way to spend time with Rand (usually spending time with a husband-to-be is a prereq).  She works very well with Rand, provides lots of plot foreshadowing, fits into the story well, and acts the most like a real woman (to my eyes...the other two seem somehow...different from how I would expect real women to act).  She seems much like a modern-day woman to me, which is quite appealing and has a generally good sense of humour, which Elayne especially shows no sign of.  Despite how many books she's in, she remains a cool character and her awesomeness seems to only increase (while the other 2 get more and more boring).

 

Among my real life WoT reading friends, one likes Avi, and all the others like Min.  Which is your favourite of the three?

 

[Edit]: 329 views but only 30ish votes?  Come on people!  Vote, vote, vote.

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What I cannot understand - other than by concluding that RJ was going for fanservice or was fantasizing about having a harem - is why Rand believes that he loves the other two as much as Min.

 

For pretty much every book, he talks about how Min, unlike every other woman, doesn't make him feel like a jerkhole. He may have slept with Avi for a few hours in the Far Snows and with Elayne for a few hours in Lily in Winter, but he's shagging Min near constantly since ACOS.

 

We also get Min's POV about how jealous she is of the other two - while Avi comes from a culture of polygamy and Elayne's been won over to Avi being her sisterwife - and is almost certainly screwing Rand silly so he doesn't spare a thought for the others. I can't imagine in TGS, if Avi is around, Min letting go of her prerogative to claim first dibs on Rand.

 

Frankly I like Aviendha the best. The other two romances were um, Min having a vision and Elayne spending a few days with him in Tear. Aviendha might not be the hottest or the coolest, but her relationship with Rand was certainly the best written and most believable. I actually *liked* the sexual tension from TSR to LOC and I honestly think that Rand's interaction with her gives him a strong - but not crazy like Faile - woman who will almost *never* act girlish, unlike both of the other two, and who really teaches him who his people are. It wasn't much, but Avi gave us a huge window on the Aiel. Maybe it's not coincidence that the three books where she was around Rand were the three books that are generally considered the best in the series.

 

Edit: Perhaps it would be better for me to say that I like the Rand-Avi relationship the best of the three; certainly it is by far and away the best written. However, at this point, I think Rand is utterly deluding himself, and mirroring the downward trend of 7-10, RJ has a hell of a time convincing me he didn't write himself into a hole with the three women. How can he really claim Rand loves three of them, when he's spent essentially one chapter with Elayne since Book 4, and essentially zero time with Avi since Book 6. That's about two thirds and and half of the series respectively.

 

He. Clearly. Wants. Min.

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Agreed on your pro-Avi points.  I like those things about her too.  But are you forgetting that Avi fell in love with Rand for just as silly a reason?  She had a vision of him in Rhuidean and the Wise Ones forced her hand a bit.  That is the only part of your post I gotta disagree with.  However, you're bang on for the rest.

 

I especially gotta worship you for your edit.  As I said in the first post, the fact that Min is the only one that wants to spend time with him is a huge hit in her favour.

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Agreed on your pro-Avi points.  I like those things about her too.  But are you forgetting that Avi fell in love with Rand for just as silly a reason?  She had a vision of him in Rhuidean and the Wise Ones forced her hand a bit.  That is the only part of your post I gotta disagree with.  However, you're bang on for the rest.

 

I especially gotta worship you for your edit.  As I said in the first post, the fact that Min is the only one that wants to spend time with him is a huge hit in her favour.

 

I should have been clearer, Avi absolutely had a vision herself, but her *falling in love with Rand* and her attempt to avoid it led to some amazing writing that set up great characterization on RJ's part. But then thinking too hard about Books 4-6, as Rand thinks about losing his hand, is not a good idea, since all we'll be doing is dwelling on what's lost and what's never coming back.

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Lmao.  I'm currently rereading the series.  Just starting Book 7 tonight (2 months to reach this point again...YAY).  I've read the first six about 5-6 times before, but 7+ only twice and KOD only once, far removed from the others, so none of it soaked in.  But from what I remember, KOD was really starting to move in the right direction again.

 

[Edit]:  I agree with you about the timing as well.  4 days total with Elayne so far (maybe not even?).  A long time with Avi, but most with Min by a mile.  If Min showed any interest in 'winning' I'd say she's won...hehe

 

[Edit #2]:  Did anybody else think Min's viewings about the children proves Rand will survive TG?  That was the first thought that popped into my head...either TG was nine months away, or he would survive.  You'd think Min would've passed that info along....-_-  And why is Rand so damn fertile with the two he spends no time with, but Min is barren so far?

 

At least he has something to play with while Elayne and Avi's bodies go all freaky on him :P.

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[Edit]:  I agree with you about the timing as well.  4 days total with Elayne so far (maybe not even?).  A long time with Avi, but most with Min by a mile.  If Min showed any interest in 'winning' I'd say she's won...hehe

 

[Edit #2]:  Did anybody else think Min's viewings about the children proves Rand will survive TG?  That was the first thought that popped into my head...either TG was nine months away, or he would survive.  You'd think Min would've passed that info along....-_-  And why is Rand so damn fertile with the two he spends no time with, but Min is barren so far?

 

At least he has something to play with while Elayne and Avi's bodies go all freaky on him :P.

 

He actually has spent the most with Aviendha, but as lover? There Min wins by default, since the other two women have only had a night a piece.

 

Second, there's a theory floating around that when Min saw four babies with Avi, but in a screwed up way, Min was actually seeing that she herself would have two.

 

Third, Min's viewings, I believe, and Nicola's foretelling make it pretty clear he'll survive. Go to the WOTFAQ to see all these points, I don't really feel like rehashing them here, since they're not particularly relevant to the thread.

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I want Rand to get close with Aviendha again.  He fell in love with her when he seemed the most sane.  At this point I see Min as a crutch he leans on and Elayne as a tryst.

 

How messed up would it be if Min got captured and Rand sought solace in Aviendha's arms?

 

I would like to see Min captured some time before the series end. Don't get me wrong I voted for Min all the way. But, Rand spends so much time worrying about her safety, and she is the most fragile (can't channel), That i feel like it NEEDS to happen. It would be Rand's worst nightmare.

 

I just realized how sadistic that sounds..........whoops....

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Maybe I'm mistaken, but based on the book descriptions, all three were beautiful in their own right; however, I thought it also mentioned that Aviendha was drop-dead gorgeous (just stand-off-ish and stubborn), Elayne was hot (snobbish and a bit of a tease), while Min was pretty (aside from being tom-boy-ish).

 

From Rand's perspective, I think if he had to choose it'd be Min; Simply because she makes him feel comfortable, and being comfortable at the end of the day when you're the Dragon Reborn is important. I think this is why he appears to have a more emotional attachment to her, because she takes him back to the days of being a sheepherder... which is what he wants more and more.

 

From my perspective, I'd choose Min. Her personality is just leaps and bounds above the others... Not clingy, needy, snobbish, teaser, or stand-off-ish. She has just the right balance of stubbornness and jealousy, pretty, and comfortable being frumpy sometimes.

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I have to say Elayne, since of the three she's the most well-rounded and mature as a person. She has her own ambitions--being Aes Sedai and Queen of Andor/Cairhien--and has effectively tackled them in her own right. True, she's a bit snobby, spoilt, and naive, but you have to expect such things from someone growing up in her position. She has some growing up left to do, but she'll get there.

 

Min has her moments, but while she seems fun and 'comforting', for all intents and purposes she's become, and is apparently content to remain, Rand's lightskirt. She has matured far less than other WOT women her age (or younger) for all she started off more independent. The botched meeting with the DotNM in KOD really made me examine her character. A mature person would have placed caution over her own petty jealousy and kept away from a situation where she would put others in danger (i.e. a fight with the Power). I blame Rand losing a hand entirely on Min's foolishness.

 

I'm not sure what to make of Aviendha. In TSR and TFOH, denying that she loved Rand was, in my mind, an immature (but understandable) reaction to being unhappy with her change of status from Maiden of the Spear to Wise One Apprentice. She's gotten over that, yet hasn't really progressed much further. It's kind of sad. On one hand it feels like the rigidity of the Aiel culture has pretty much broken her. On the other, she seems to use that rigidity as an excuse to avoid figuring out who she really is.

 

To put it in modern terms, Elayne is the college grad who is starting to figure out the real world. Min is the girl who became a waitress after high school because she couldn't get her act together. Aviendha was home-schooled then went to a strict religious college; she hates her parents but is too afraid to face up to it.

 

Overall, I find the four-way love plot to be one of the weakest parts of WOT. I can buy Rand having flings with Elayne and Aviendha, and finally becoming attached to Min because she's safe and convenient, but the rest is entirely a product of fate and/or forced plot. I've actually always thought Elayne and Mat would make an interesting, and better, match. Elayne, like Tuon, I suspect, has enough rogue in her to find Mat frustrating yet appealing. As for Aviendha... she has a long way to go before she's ready for anyone.

 

-- dwn

 

 

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Mis is easily the best.

 

Which, of course, again raises the question of why RJ thought three girlfriends were bloody necessary?

 

Plus, I should say that there was more chemistry between Elayne and Mat than anything between her and Rand.

 

I don't see why it was unnecessary, it made for some great drama and lets face it, the bonding scene was awesome, when they understand how much pain he is in.

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I have to say Elayne, since of the three she's the most well-rounded and mature as a person. She has her own ambitions--being Aes Sedai and Queen of Andor/Cairhien--and has effectively tackled them in her own right. True, she's a bit snobby, spoilt, and naive, but you have to expect such things from someone growing up in her position. She has some growing up left to do, but she'll get there.

 

Min has her moments, but while she seems fun and 'comforting', for all intents and purposes she's become, and is apparently content to remain, Rand's lightskirt. She has matured far less than other WOT women her age (or younger) for all she started off more independent. The botched meeting with the DotNM in KOD really made me examine her character. A mature person would have placed caution over her own petty jealousy and kept away from a situation where she would put others in danger (i.e. a fight with the Power). I blame Rand losing a hand entirely on Min's foolishness.

 

I'm not sure what to make of Aviendha. In TSR and TFOH, denying that she loved Rand was, in my mind, an immature (but understandable) reaction to being unhappy with her change of status from Maiden of the Spear to Wise One Apprentice. She's gotten over that, yet hasn't really progressed much further. It's kind of sad. On one hand it feels like the rigidity of the Aiel culture has pretty much broken her. On the other, she seems to use that rigidity as an excuse to avoid figuring out who she really is.

 

To put it in modern terms, Elayne is the college grad who is starting to figure out the real world. Min is the girl who became a waitress after high school because she couldn't get her act together. Aviendha was home-schooled then went to a strict religious college; she hates her parents but is too afraid to face up to it.

 

Overall, I find the four-way love plot to be one of the weakest parts of WOT. I can buy Rand having flings with Elayne and Aviendha, and finally becoming attached to Min because she's safe and convenient, but the rest is entirely a product of fate and/or forced plot. I've actually always thought Elayne and Mat would make an interesting, and better, match. Elayne, like Tuon, I suspect, has enough rogue in her to find Mat frustrating yet appealing. As for Aviendha... she has a long way to go before she's ready for anyone.

 

-- dwn

 

 

 

Your discription of the 3 clearly shows Elayne as the most immature which I definetly agree with. Elayne was mature with the Egwene - Nyneave relationship but she has gone sour since. Her way of handling Mat during the entire Ebou Dar trip was downright childish. Her way too often confrontations with Birgitte, geez grow up woman!

 

Aviendha not wanting to love Rand is way more than just understandable. Her belief and way of life was shaken to the core and she is forced and by her own choice to live another lifer. I think I would more than sulk if that happened to me. Think of that as a forced wedding in order to gain territory in a medieval time, but this time to gain loyalty with their leader.

 

Min on the the other hand IS the mature one. Her only interest is to protect Rand in her way, which you really cant blame her for since she loves him the way she does and Rand being Rand is constantly in danger so naturally she want to remain close to him. She is also probably the piece that let Rand save a minor part of his old self and not completly close himself shut from the outside world. There is nothing there to define Min as a lightskirt, she loves Rand and Rand sure loves her, and both are dependant on each other and not only the sexual way, they simply has a relationship, werent it for the other 2 Min would probably be pushing for a wedding, but since she is loyal she looks out for the others interest as much as her own, something Elayne thinks she wouldnt have done.

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Which, of course, again raises the question of why RJ thought three girlfriends were bloody necessary?

 

That's exactly what I'm wondering, too. I've always found the whole 3-girls-for-one-guy thing very weird and I don't think it added much to the plot. Nor did it add anything to the characters.

RJ had to write about Rand's relationship to each of the 3 a lot and ultimately it makes me feel as if none of the relationships is really fleshed out enough. In my opinion RJ should've focused on getting ONE of the relationships right, making it deep and interesting.

 

Instead they're pretty superficial. After all he hasn't even spent much time with Elayne at all. If he had just gotten rid of 2 of the 3 RJ would've had a lot more time to properly let the love story evolve and make the relationship believable.

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Considering what we know of Ilyena from the first chapter of the first book, she sounds like she was failing, if you catch my drift.

 

And LTT's moaning sounds not unlike the crap we've had to put up with in Perrin's head for four books until the end of KOD.

 

Good point. Now I can't help but wonder what Randland would be like now if LTT had chosen Mierin (Lanfear) back then instead of Ilyena.  ;)

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In Elayne's defense (not that i'm picking her), she did spend about a month or two with him in the stone(remember Moiraine getting ticked about how long he was waiting?).

 

And in Min's defense, it isn't like the only thing she does for Rand is in bed.

 

And in Rand's (or RJ's) defense, remember that Rand is insane by the time he admits he loves all three.  Besides which, RJ did put in place the mechanism for sorting out his love life a long time ago (sister-wives).  which, of course, means Min is likely doomed, which in turn is likely why RJ gave her the most prominent role in the love story now, both to make an impact at the climactic moment and too give her fans a bone.  Which is a shame, 'cause she's my favorite. 

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Elayne is supposed to be a modern-day ilyena I think.  Certainly, Lanfear saw her as such.

 

The idea behind the three women was a way of making sure every reader liked the woman Rand ended up with (I think).  We have enough variation between them that the reader is able to see their most desirable combination between the three.  I know this sounds weird, but that's the feeling I get.  Whatever the reader wants Rand to have, he's got.  Its often thought that authors give their main characters lovers that appeal to them, but in this case RJ went for a love interest that can satisfy anybody's wants.

 

We have red-gold hair, brown hair, and reddish (I assume auburn?) hair.  We have blue, blue-green, and dark brown eyes.  We have a modern day women who's also kinda tomboyish, a snobby princess, and a fierce warrior.  It seems like he just wanted to cover all the possible bases.  I've always wondered why RJ always got into Sister-wives and presumably Brother-husbands and the four-way love square thing when group sex is never even hinted at.  (not that I'm suggesting it should be, it just seems to be a weird thing to leave to question)  And why does everybody have twins in WoT????

 

As somebody back on the first page said (sorry, your name escapes me), I do hope Min gets captured.  Just to give the other two some time with Rand.  In fact, I see it as quite ominous that Rand decided to capture a forsaken that loves torture and knows of his relationship with Min...

 

[Edit]: to the guy who posted before me (buckeyebull64).  Elayne spent time in the Stone, but she mentions only saying a few words to Rand as they passed in the hallways.  Only during the last four days did she actually spend any time with him to drive thoughts of Berelain out of his head.

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