The Gholam?

[Xcom788]

-Somehow get the gholam to chase someone (or somehow push it) into a stedding.

 

The stedding method is truly intriguing. I like the possibilities. I would think that the Gholam would be completely undone by it.

 

Random thought: If a stedding nullifies Saidin/Saidar then would an a'dam work? Wouldn't the damane just be able to remove it without the hand cramps or any of the other preventative measures built into the ter'angreal? That might be a good place for Rand and Tuon to meet.

 

Sorry it just popped into my head and I had to ask.

 

Yes they could the a'dam is not a well after all. However considering that almost all damane. Even those aes sedai newly captured. Are so conditioned to follow orders and consider themselfs less then human. I doubt they would. We have already seen what a suddenly unleashed damane acts like.

[supermanblue2001]

Yes they could the a'dam is not a well after all. However considering that almost all damane. Even those aes sedai newly captured. Are so conditioned to follow orders and consider themselfs less then human. I doubt they would. We have already seen what a suddenly unleashed damane acts like.

 

I don't know about that. A 'well' ter'angreal still works in a stedding. The well could power any ter'angreal in a stedding. It doesn't nullify the ter'angreal it nullifies the power itself in a channeler. So it wouldn't be that the a'dam didn't work it would be that the damane wasn't a channeler anymore. I know it's just making the same point again but I think it's important to define accurately the way the situation would unfold.

 

However, it is possible that the a'dam would still work because they don't seem to actually use the power. I don't believe it would, but who knows for sure?

 

I do agree with you that most damane are so downtrodden that they wouldn't consider trying to remove the collar but there are still some Sea Folk that wear and a'dam. They seem to be stronger than most in the sense that they won't give up.

[mb]

This will not work as the air walls would be held together with the power, and as soon as the gholam touches them they would dissipate.

I take just direct weaves dissipate on gholam.

 

Or maybe create like a boxing ring around Mat and the gholam.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

What if Jaichim Carridin was the one giving the Golem his orders?  In Crown of Swords Sammael says to Jaichim "I will send you .... someone .... to deal the Aes Sedia."  p. 363  Sammael dies at the end of Crown of Swords.  But the Golem makes a comment in Winter's Heart that it is under orders to avoid notice.  So this leaving me to think that someone else is giving the Golem commands.  In Path of Daggers, we learn that Mordin is not giving the Golem commands. 

 

Sammael commanded Jaichim to ignore Matt but Jaichim defied that order.  The Golem says to Matt "He wants you dead as much as he wants her."  p.770  I originally took this comment to mean that the Golem was command to kill Elayne, however the Golem had time to kill Elayne before Matt was able to come to her rescue.  Jaichim was under orders from Niall to kidnap Elayne so Niall would have another lever on Morgase.  Jaichim had no idea how he was going to get to Elayne.  Jaichim does not die until Crossroads of Twilight.  In Crossroads of Twilight the Golem seems to be free of commands since he kills Tylin and is on a killing spree chasing after Matt there after.

 

There is question of how it is possible for Jaichim to command the Golem.  My only thought is how is possible for anyone to command the Golem.  It does not have to fear the power but it can be commanded, so something about it makes it possible for someone to commanded it without the power.  It maybe that only the Chosen can command it since they can command other shadowspawn but Aginor must have built something into to it so that it could be commanded but he did not build it so that only he could command it.  Even a darkfriend king would obey a beggar if the proper signs were given.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

What if Jaichim Carridin was the one giving the Golem his orders?  In Crown of Swords Sammael says to Jaichim "I will send you .... someone .... to deal the Aes Sedia."  p. 363  Sammael dies at the end of Crown of Swords.  But the Golem makes a comment in Winter's Heart that it is under orders to avoid notice.  So this leaving me to think that someone else is giving the Golem commands.  In Path of Daggers, we learn that Mordin is not giving the Golem commands. 

 

Sammael commanded Jaichim to ignore Matt but Jaichim defied that order.  The Golem says to Matt "He wants you dead as much as he wants her."  p.770  I originally took this comment to mean that the Golem was command to kill Elayne, however the Golem had time to kill Elayne before Matt was able to come to her rescue.  Jaichim was under orders from Niall to kidnap Elayne so Niall would have another lever on Morgase.  Jaichim had no idea how he was going to get to Elayne.  Jaichim does not die until Crossroads of Twilight.  In Crossroads of Twilight the Golem seems to be free of commands since he kills Tylin and is on a killing spree chasing after Matt there after.

 

There is question of how it is possible for Jaichim to command the Golem.  My only thought is how is possible for anyone to command the Golem.  It does not have to fear the power but it can be commanded, so something about it makes it possible for someone to commanded it without the power.  It maybe that only the Chosen can command it since they can command other shadowspawn but Aginor must have built something into to it so that it could be commanded but he did not build it so that only he could command it.  Even a darkfriend king would obey a beggar if the proper signs were given.

I am pretty sure Jaichim died in Winter's Heart.  Still maybe?

[DemandredFO]

As an aside it seems that Barthanas was killed by a Gholam, at least his manner of death was described the same way as Harid Fels and we know he was killed by a Gholam.  Moridin would probably realize what Fel could reveal since even though Ishamael is insane he still is a philosopher.

[jemron]

As an aside it seems that Barthanas was killed by a Gholam, at least his manner of death was described the same way as Harid Fels and we know he was killed by a Gholam.  Moridin would probably realize what Fel could reveal since even though Ishamael is insane he still is a philosopher.

 

I would be surprised by this, just because it seems like the Gholam wasn't around until much later... But what else could it have been?  Fain perhaps?  Wait, Fain had already left before Barthanes death, right?  So... hmmm... Maybe it really was the gholam.

 

Interesting.  Are there any other theories on this anywhere?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

As an aside it seems that Barthanas was killed by a Gholam, at least his manner of death was described the same way as Harid Fels and we know he was killed by a Gholam.  Moridin would probably realize what Fel could reveal since even though Ishamael is insane he still is a philosopher.

 

I would be surprised by this, just because it seems like the Gholam wasn't around until much later... But what else could it have been?  Fain perhaps?  Wait, Fain had already left before Barthanes death, right?  So... hmmm... Maybe it really was the gholam.

 

Interesting.  Are there any other theories on this anywhere?

Maybe he was killed by the Golem.  I can only find a reference of Harid being torn apart by his limbs but I did not find anything about there being a lack of blood, which would mean it was the Golem.

[Tumeric]

Maybe he was killed by the Golem.  I can only find a reference of Harid being torn apart by his limbs but I did not find anything about there being a lack of blood, which would mean it was the Golem.

wasn't there a line describing the gholam sliding under Fel's door?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Maybe he was killed by the Golem.  I can only find a reference of Harid being torn apart by his limbs but I did not find anything about there being a lack of blood, which would mean it was the Golem.

wasn't there a line describing the gholam sliding under Fel's door?

You're right, it is on page 984 in Lord of Chaos.

[Charlz Guybon]

As an aside it seems that Barthanas was killed by a Gholam, at least his manner of death was described the same way as Harid Fels and we know he was killed by a Gholam.  Moridin would probably realize what Fel could reveal since even though Ishamael is insane he still is a philosopher.

I forgot about that scene. It makes it certain that Ishamael knows about a Gholam, no one else but him would order the assassination of a philosopher like Fel. It may be a different Gholam from Sammael's though.

[mb]

Maybe he was killed by the Golem.  I can only find a reference of Harid being torn apart by his limbs but I did not find anything about there being a lack of blood, which would mean it was the Golem.

wasn't there a line describing the gholam sliding under Fel's door?

You're right, it is on page 984 in Lord of Chaos.

Lord of Chaos Epilogue

Not all readers have the same copy.

 

[bronnt]

Don't know if this a new idea, but I'd like see Aludra take the gholam apart with Dragon's Eggs.  We know it's not hurt by swords or knives, (or most anything else since it has no bones) but perhaps you can blow the thing apart with artillery.  A "New Age" solution, rather than one involving the OP.  I've seen a lot of ideas about how to defeat the gholam, but this one is my particular favorite.

[Crael123]

If author is smart, he will use the Gholam the same way Tad Williams did in "War of the Flowers".

 

In that book, Tad Williams has a very Gholam-like character, a single minded construct hellbent on it's target's death.  In a pivotal scene, right when the bad guys have the hero in their clutches and there seems to be no escape, the Gholam blunders into the scene and disrupts the bad guys advantage, allowing the hero to save the day.

 

In the same way, it would be great if the Alefinn have Matt dead to rights and just in the nick of time, the golem shows up and tears them apart, just because they are in the way.

 

 

 

 

and also then mat moirane thom and noal escape, and leave the gholm in finnland

[Dreamwalker]

I think that Demandred was the one commanding the Gholam (other than Sammael of course). Particularly from the Gholam's statement that he (his commander) wants Mat almost as much as he wants her (Elayne). I think that Demandred has wanted to get a hold of Elayne ever since he sees her in Tel'aran'rhiod in Ch. 7 of LoC (when she is looking at the lion throne and is mad at Rand). He makes a comment about this being another thread he could pull, but we haven't seen him do anything about it. I think what he did was order the Gholam to kidnap her so he could try to use her against Rand.

 

Incidentally, if it wants Mat and was ordered to get Elayne - after tGS both are in Caemlyn. So there's pretty much no doubt where it's headed to me. It won't even have to pick between what it wants and what it's been commanded to do.

 

EDIT: I also just remembered that Elayne now has that dagger ter'angreal that Aviendha gave her in KoD that is supposed to keep the bearer from being seen by the Shadow. She thinks it would keep Myrddraal and Trollocs, maybe even the DO from seeing her - could it also keep the Gholam from seeing her? Can it still sense her? This could be really important if it does end up in Caemlyn.  :)

[Sharaman]

Suppose the Gholam arrives in Hinderstrap on Mat's trail and tears the locals apart and drinks their blood, etc. Next morning they wake up whole, and kick his butt soundly. Or it gets poisoned by zombie-vampire blood.

That would give Hinderstrap a whole new reason for existence.

 

[chuckievi]

Leave it eternally stuck in Hinderstrap, that would be somewhat ironic.

[storywriter100]

Just a random thought, but if Matts medalion stops the Power working, and the only thing that seems to hurt the gholam is Matts medalion, maybe the gholam would die if it went inside the border of Far Madding, where no-one can use the Power. Just a thought :)

[Sharaman]

Just a random thought, but if Matts medalion stops the Power working, and the only thing that seems to hurt the gholam is Matts medalion, maybe the gholam would die if it went inside the border of Far Madding, where no-one can use the Power. Just a thought :)

Don't think this would work. (According to Elayne) Mat's medallion and the Gholam both actively break up weaves in the same way. The Far Madding stedding stops channelers from sensing the source. Weaves work, if there is a well of OP.

So the FM stedding and whatever the gholam / foxhead do are different physical processes.

 

[Crael123]

Don't know if this a new idea, but I'd like see Aludra take the gholam apart with Dragon's Eggs.  We know it's not hurt by swords or knives, (or most anything else since it has no bones) but perhaps you can blow the thing apart with artillery.  A "New Age" solution, rather than one involving the OP.  I've seen a lot of ideas about how to defeat the gholam, but this one is my particular favorite.

 

or the asha man do what they did to the shaido in dumani's wells. that would suck.

 

 

i wonder what would happen if the gholm got balefired?

[sushisushi]

Okay, so, if a stedding (or Far Madding, for that matter) basically turns channelers into non-channelers while they are inside, that means that both damane and sul'dam would temporarily become non-channellers and the a'dam won't work on or for either of them. But we've seen ter'angreal (e.g. Nynaeve's well) continue to work inside FM, at least, so it wouldn't be that the a'dam actually stops working, but that women can no longer sense anything through it, like putting any non-channeler on either end of an a'dam (like during the initial testing in Seanchan). So, theoretically, the damane could escape in a stedding or in FM, although the conditioning is likely to keep them subservient and obeying their sul'dam. I'd like to see the Seanchan try and take Far Madding, though, without their greatest advantage in battle...

[lordrains]

If the people in hinderstrap die during the day are they dead for ever? and if not do they age?

[algspkr]

If the people in hinderstrap die during the day are they dead for ever? and if not do they age?

 

Some have committed suicide and were buried, but they woke up the next morning.

 

As for the question at hand I believe the easiest way to kill the Gholam would be to drive it through a gateway.

[rubbernilly]

If author is smart, he will use the Gholam the same way Tad Williams did in "War of the Flowers".

 

In that book, Tad Williams has a very Gholam-like character, a single minded construct hellbent on it's target's death.  In a pivotal scene, right when the bad guys have the hero in their clutches and there seems to be no escape, the Gholam blunders into the scene and disrupts the bad guys advantage, allowing the hero to save the day.

 

In the same way, it would be great if the Alefinn have Matt dead to rights and just in the nick of time, the golem shows up and tears them apart, just because they are in the way.

 

 

 

 

and also then mat moirane thom and noal escape, and leave the gholm in finnland

 

I noted this in another thread, but along these same ideas... everybody draws the Fain~Gollum comparison, expecting Fain to do something similar to what Smeagol did at the end of tLotR.

 

What about Gholam~Gollum? Maybe not in terms of Rand and the DO and Tarmon Gaidon, but in some other capacity.

 

BTW, I agree that a Gateway is the best chance for killing him outright, but I think that so much time was paid (by RJ) to how much attention the channeling women were paying to Mat's medallion that I think RJ was showing us something of how the Gholam would be dealt with, too... With physical attacks from indirect weaves. I guess we'll see.

[Aquarius]

BTW, I agree that a Gateway is the best chance for killing him outright, but I think that so much time was paid (by RJ) to how much attention the channeling women were paying to Mat's medallion that I think RJ was showing us something of how the Gholam would be dealt with, too... With physical attacks from indirect weaves. I guess we'll see.

There's something here, though: using something the Golham isn't designed to deal with. He's an extremely powerfull and agile fighter and unweaves the One Power. What about the Finns ? Who can say what sort of power they have if they can hang Mat without breaking a sweat ? If they can hold Moirane/Lanfear prisonner ? Maybe THEY can deal with the Golham without much trouble ...

 

... if the price is right.