Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Shard]

 

Nothing much happening for Egwene, unless she helps in the Black Tower cleaning. TGS was her book. On second thought I could imagine either her or Rand to realize that there is a need for a conference of all the powers before TG starts and Tar Valon would be the logical place to hold the meeting. TOM might still be a bit early, since by rights the Black Tower should have relocated to Tar Valon by the time this took place, but it needs to happen.

 

 

Oh I think Egwene still has Massanna to deal with before Tarmon Gaiden. I mean at the very least Massy will want to remove Egwene from the forces of light even if she can't get control of the Tower back.

[b3arz3rg3r]

 

Nothing much happening for Egwene, unless she helps in the Black Tower cleaning. TGS was her book. On second thought I could imagine either her or Rand to realize that there is a need for a conference of all the powers before TG starts and Tar Valon would be the logical place to hold the meeting. TOM might still be a bit early, since by rights the Black Tower should have relocated to Tar Valon by the time this took place, but it needs to happen.

 

 

Oh I think Egwene still has Massanna to deal with before Tarmon Gaiden. I mean at the very least Massy will want to remove Egwene from the forces of light even if she can't get control of the Tower back.

 

You think Mesaana is still in the White Tower? Not only is it rather likely that she is Shaidar Haran's new plaything right now because of her failure, but she would be rather stupid to remain in the White Tower right now. With the purge taking place she has to assume that her presence has been disclosed- anything else would be foolhardy. Moreover with another 1300 women taking residence in the tower, her freedom of movement will be rather limited. There are too many to keep track of all the time and she has to hide from them all or make things worse by killing anyone who discovers her especially with the tower geography changing at random.

[Shard]

I at least wanted to discuss the possibilty of it, I suppose they could put Halima in there with a Mask of Mirrors.

[Saibi]

I'm most interested to find out what Mat's new title Prince of Ravens entails.  Does this give him some sort of "Master of the Blades" authority with the Seanchan?  

 

Also Moiraine thought Cadsuane was Black Ajah in New Spring, does she still think that?

 

What's happening with Lan, has Rand changed his mind on the battle plans.  Will Mat be overall commander, just the Band, or the Seanchan?

 

I want to see Gawyn get pummeled, badly.

 

I'm also convinced Olver will be key in the Tower of Ghenjei breakout, and I'm extremely curious what he comes up with.  Too much time has been spent on the Snakes and Foxes game for him not to figure something out from it.

 

Hopefully we see some mention of the Younglings and what happens to them now that Egwene is Amyrlin and their re-introduction to Gawyn, and Gawyns to Leane and Suian Sanche.

 

 

 

[b3arz3rg3r]

I at least wanted to discuss the possibilty of it, I suppose they could put Halima in there with a Mask of Mirrors.

 

]I guess they could, but even her days are numbered. As paranoid as the Aes Sedai are about men channelling I wouldn't be surprised if they build a ward against them. We saw in KOD that there are weaves which can detect saidin. So building a ward comprising them should be possible. To have a couple of Aes Sedai on guard duty against male channellers would be a no-brainer.

 

I wonder if there are any ter'angreal which prevent Travelling in their vicinity. There had to have been means to prevent Travelling in the AoL.

 

 

I want to see Gawyn get pummeled, badly.

 

Seconded. This whole business of him being a super blademaster was really annoying.

[firstfishman]

1. Elayne, Gawyn, Morgase, Galad, Rand all sit down and come to terms.. Elayne has Rands babies, and he gets Aviehnda pregnant.

2. Perrin, Whitecloak, Faile, Wolves, etc

3. Logain kicking Taim and his darkfriend cronies out of the Black Tower

4. Matt assuming control over the ever victorious army as the prince of ravens, trading his eye for Moiraines release, finding out that Olver is Gaidal Cain and him getting some nookie off of Birgitte. I dont think Matt needs the horn anymore, as almost all the dead heroes have been reborn. (how do you call someones soul from his reborn shell to fight for you? They are already going to fight)

5. Thom giving the tinkers their song... I believe there was reference to him "finding a few paragraphs" of some long forgotten song. He will also get back togeather with Morgase.

6. Egwene finds and defeats Mesanna, uses her ter'angreal making talent to copy a bunch of sa'angreal, etc for use in the final battle, marries Gawyn and makes him her warder. Recruits the Wise Ones and takes control of the world of dreams.

7. Aviendha finds ter'angreal/sa'angreal that were missed with her talent and does something unexpected that helps everyone and earns her enough honor to marry Rand as his equal.

8. Mazrim Taim is, in fact, Damondred

9. Rand goes blind from developing Saa from his use of the True Power, releases all those sworn to him from their oaths and offers them the honor of being an equal instead of a follower. Tracks down Matt in the crystal throne room, offers Fortuona the free world in exchange for putting a stop to collaring people. He then kneels to her, and earns Matt as a general leading the Senchan. Rand will kill the gholam with the True Power.

10. Min figures out the secret to sealing the Dark Ones prison for good..

 

 

[The Dirty Landry]

I agree about Gawyn. I think you could create a drinking game based on the amount of times Gawyn talks about hating rand and how he'd like to thrust a sword in his heart. Jeez, dude, you are not 13 any more...grow up and learn to take rumors with a grain of salt! He is easily the most immature character in the series...i'd even say Olver is more mature than him right now.

 

The whole super blademaster thing was pretty annoying, I agree. The fact that he easily defeated Aiel who have been fighting and training their whole lives was pretty bogus as well. Robert Jordan made it pretty clear in his universe that a man that is good with quarterstaff/spear has the advantage over most swordsman and probably even with a blademaster. Plus the whole fact that Gawyn hasn't been training long enough to be a super blademaster in the first place.

 

This is how a confrontation with Gawyn would go:

 

"My name is Gawyn Trakand, you killed my mother. Prepare to die."

 

*Wraps Gawyn in Air* "Your mother is alive and well with Galad. By the way i saved your homeland from Rahvin. Now i'm going to leave you here to grow up. I have real problems to take care of."

 

 

I kind of wish DarkRand had met Gawyn. He wouldn't have hesitated to balefire Gawyn.

 

Sorry about the rant. Back on topic: Anybody else Berelain meets her "man in white" next book? It might not necessarily be Galad either. There are going to be a lot of men in white around her. Maybe it will be Galad's buddy or even Dain Bornhald. :-p

[sheikh chilli]

ideally gawyn should be stabbed in the heart by padan fain. God i hate him.

[b3arz3rg3r]

1. Elayne, Gawyn, Morgase, Galad, Rand all sit down and come to terms.. Elayne has Rands babies, and he gets Aviehnda pregnant.

2. Perrin, Whitecloak, Faile, Wolves, etc

3. Logain kicking Taim and his darkfriend cronies out of the Black Tower

4. Matt assuming control over the ever victorious army as the prince of ravens, trading his eye for Moiraines release, finding out that Olver is Gaidal Cain and him getting some nookie off of Birgitte. I dont think Matt needs the horn anymore, as almost all the dead heroes have been reborn. (how do you call someones soul from his reborn shell to fight for you? They are already going to fight)

5. Thom giving the tinkers their song... I believe there was reference to him "finding a few paragraphs" of some long forgotten song. He will also get back togeather with Morgase.

6. Egwene finds and defeats Mesanna, uses her ter'angreal making talent to copy a bunch of sa'angreal, etc for use in the final battle, marries Gawyn and makes him her warder. Recruits the Wise Ones and takes control of the world of dreams.

7. Aviendha finds ter'angreal/sa'angreal that were missed with her talent and does something unexpected that helps everyone and earns her enough honor to marry Rand as his equal.

8. Mazrim Taim is, in fact, Damondred

9. Rand goes blind from developing Saa from his use of the True Power, releases all those sworn to him from their oaths and offers them the honor of being an equal instead of a follower. Tracks down Matt in the crystal throne room, offers Fortuona the free world in exchange for putting a stop to collaring people. He then kneels to her, and earns Matt as a general leading the Senchan. Rand will kill the gholam with the True Power.

10. Min figures out the secret to sealing the Dark Ones prison for good..

 

It's tough to decide whether you are joking, because you are really mixing reasonable ideas with a couple utterly ridiculous ones.

 

ideally gawyn should be stabbed in the heart by padan fain. God i hate him.

 

He and Egwene deserve each other  ;D

[Stevros]

BREAKING NEWS!!

 

In the next book whoever Mesaana is posing as will escape the tower on Bela (therfore taking away the only chance for defeating the Dark One), only for her to end up a few miles away from the Tower of Ghenjei and Chel Vanin, who is bored waiting for Mat, Thom and Noal to get back from saving Moiraine to steal Bela thus giving the forces of light a chance in the last battle.

[Mallix]

In Regards to Avi going into the pillars and finding the clue to the song.

 

The Tree of life (Chora tree) + Aiel + Tinkers + Song = fixes the food problem and pushes back the Blight

 

 

[randsc]

What I'm looking forward to:

 

BT occupying Elaida's palace, turning it black in the process.  Balance and all that, plus hopefully a dash of much-needed humilty for the AS.

 

Something happening to Gawyn, whom I hate.  But I don't want it to be Egwene, whom I also hate, "putting him in his place."

 

The really very childish Elayne getting a clue.

 

Someone spanking Cadsuane like she did Semi.  I can hope, right?  I mean, even if she really DID know everything, the mystery for the sake of mystery and the way she treats people who are heroes of the sort she could never dream of being is infuriating.  Spank, spank, spank!

 

Avi in the columns.

 

The ride of the Malkieri

 

And, of course, I'm hoping for a good Ran POV of the first time he gets Avi, Min and Elayne "behind closed doors" together for the first time.  I'm pretty sure I saw that movie, but it was shot on tape and the soundtrack sucked.

[Nargsmart]

Rand will face Egwene's anger... and exercise his newfound ability to laugh (in her face).  

 

Does anyone else think its suspicious that Sorelia (sp) is the only one Cadsuane showed the collar too right before it got stolen?

 

Tuon *erm* Fortuana now has travelling, and doesn't like Rand, so we could possibly see annother Seanchan raid before a treaty/resolution of some kind. I also would like to see Fortuana's reaction to the WT attack.  How many AS did they actually make off with, how many Raken did they lose, etc.   

 

The return of Narg! (joke)

[Fainsbane]

The first thing that comes to mind for me is the Black Tower. I suspect that it is here that we will see the first use of the 13/13 to turn someone to the dark, especially when I consider the final scene in KoD and the complete lack of any news from the SAS embassy to the BT. Where else would the Black Ajah go after the purge? pretty easy for them to get 13 BA channellers to do the deed.

 

I wonder if there will be any hope for Pevara and her group of Reds to be saved/healed from such a turning? This whole plot has me on the edge of my seat already.

 

Matt, Noal and Thom will go in but I wonder of Olver will follow them and finally show himself to be Gaidal Cain, Matt did refer to him getting all kinds of training from the members of the Band, knives, swords and hand to hand. If the first three go in without cheating then he might have to "break the rules" in order to rescue them all. (My pet theory after some of the comments by both Matt and Thom in tGS.

 

Some have talked about Egwene's confrontation with Rand and everyone thinks she'll be obnoxious like all AS have been to him so far but she might be surprised by Nyneave. If she gets uppity after all Rand has been through Nyneave might have to pull her up short. Cadsuane needs to be reminded that she is still human and little more than a supporting character and Egwene will be a shock to her too.

 

Gawyn's confrontation with Rand will be interesting since Rand now knows that she's alive from Rand's meeting with Tam. Will he even get a chance to confront Rand before he meets up with with Galad and Morgase? If the whole super blademaster thing is what he thinks he is it could be Galad who slaps him down.

 

Galad/Berelain will be in this book as soon as Perrin meets up with the Whitecloaks.

 

Tam, what is in your future? Sneaky good plot happening here I hope. Could he be Cadsuane's next warder, a man she could respect and could keep her head from swelling?

 

Avi's trip to the Glass whatchayamacallit will give us the female ancestry story. I wonder if she's descended of the Jenn Aiel? This is where I expect the final clue to the Callandor mystery to be found. Good catch on the Song Terangreal, wonder if it's an iPod? (Kidding.)

 

The Borderlander's, The Golden Crane? There has to be a lot more to Lan's story.

 

OMG, just thought of something as I wrote that last. What happens if Myrelle is turned? Could Nyneave force her to give up Lan's bond? Could she use that connection to ambush Lan's forces?

 

 

 

so much more to think about... grrr... getting ansty for the next book already.

[mogi67]

In Regards to Avi going into the pillars and finding the clue to the song.

 

The Tree of life (Chora tree) + Aiel + Tinkers + Song = fixes the food problem and pushes back the Blight

 

 

 

Wasn't the tree of life in Rhuidean destroyed during Rand and Asmo's battle?

[b3arz3rg3r]

In Regards to Avi going into the pillars and finding the clue to the song.

 

The Tree of life (Chora tree) + Aiel + Tinkers + Song = fixes the food problem and pushes back the Blight

 

 

 

Wasn't the tree of life in Rhuidean destroyed during Rand and Asmo's battle?

 

It was burned, but not dead.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is the Black Tower. I suspect that it is here that we will see the first use of the 13/13 to turn someone to the dark, especially when I consider the final scene in KoD and the complete lack of any news from the SAS embassy to the BT. Where else would the Black Ajah go after the purge? pretty easy for them to get 13 BA channellers to do the deed.

 

I think that only works if those thirteen were linked and unless there were enough female darkfriends among the ones they captured or that male bonding is even more powerful than we've seen before there won't be anyone linking the men.

 

I wonder if there will be any hope for Pevara and her group of Reds to be saved/healed from such a turning? This whole plot has me on the edge of my seat already.

 

Rand can cut people of from the DO and so can others if they are taught.

 

Tam, what is in your future? Sneaky good plot happening here I hope. Could he be Cadsuane's next warder, a man she could respect and could keep her head from swelling?

 

Now that's a nice idea. It was high time someone told an Aes Sedai that they are no better than men who use physical strength to settle an argument.

 

Avi's trip to the Glass whatchayamacallit will give us the female ancestry story. I wonder if she's descended of the Jenn Aiel? This is where I expect the final clue to the Callandor mystery to be found. Good catch on the Song Terangreal, wonder if it's an iPod? (Kidding.)

 

All Aiel are descended of the Jenn if you go back far enough. The current Aiel are the descendants of the ones who broke their oath.

 

There's another mystery bound up in Callandor. It's the only thing which can resist balefire. How is that possible?

 

[deepak_dragonreborn]

Funny thing is the things we thought would be resolved in TGS have still not been fully resolved...Rand still has to form a treaty with the Seanchen and has to meet with the Borderlanders..so we might see that in the next book..

 

The Black Tower battle is also a certainty though i think it will continue till AMoL..

 

Rand facing Egwenes wrath has to be fulfilled.I hope Rand can banish her like he did Cadsuane..Acc to me all Aes Sedai inculding Egwene is a bully.

 

Will we see more of Perrin??Will he play a huge role with the Borderlanders...Hopefully he will do something useful for a change

 

Mat obviously will go to ToG..i really want to see the letter that Verin wrote him

 

Hope we see more of Fain and Slayer..Im pretty sure if we dont see Fain in the next book he'll play a VERY VERY important role in The Last Battle.

[The Weeper]

This is my first post (just created my account). I finished reading the book a couple of days after release and I think it is probably one of my favorite books of all time. The WoT series has some pretty phenomenal books, but they way events happened/concluded and characters developed (eg. Rand) in this latest installment was truly epic. I loved it.

 

Now, Towers of Midnight speculation?

 

I think its safe to say the majority of this book will be based on the Black Tower and the Tower of Genji. If you take the title literally, how many other "Towers" are that could be of influence. Maybe also in the Borderlands, correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember there being a Tower of importance around there too (from The Great Hunt as they set out from Shienar). So from this, I speculate on the following:

 

1) The Black Tower. With barely any mention of Taim and the Black Tower in TGS, except for the Aes Sedai who travelled there and haven't reported back, I have a feeling some HUGE events are going to happen. It is well known about Logain's crown, and he will most likely be the guy to bring down Taim.

I feel that the relationship with Rand and Egwene will also be monumental in bringing down the Black Tower. Rand is human once again, Egwene knows what he went through and now knows how to deal with him (such as not putting him in a box). I think Rand and the White Tower will assault the Black Tower together, which will be a battle of epic proportions.

 

2) The Tower of Genji. Moiraine. Mat. Thom... who is the third? Is it actually Noal? I cant remember seeing it was Noal for sure, I thought it wasn't. I have a feeling it could be Brigitte (Mat IS going to Caemlyn).

 

** Side note - Could someone tell me what happened to Elayne's captain guy? The one dealing with the Forsaken and "saved" her from being poisoned? Cant remember names, and at work.

 

Other speculations:

 

- Rand, being cured of insanity, will lay his ego aside and bow to Fortuona in a state of submission. This will forge the alliance between them and him.

 

- Rand will find out about babies hopefully.

 

- Aviendha will marry Rand when she gets back.

 

- Galahad will meet Morgase. The Whitecloaks and Perrin will join Rand.

 

- Taim will reveal himself to be Demandred (who will then be slain by Logain).

 

- Moiraine will be saved and take Cadsuanes old place as advisor.

 

- The Borderlanders just want to talk! Seriously... Rand will finally talk to them.

 

- Rand BETTER make some ammends with everyone he has been a prick to.

 

- Mesaana will reveal herself as Silviana. Or maybe Katarine. I would prefer Katarine because I am tired of drama in the White Tower, and Silviana could cause alot more drama.

 

And one last little side note, I think Perrin might be put in charge of Aludra's quest. He's a blacksmith, needs something to do, and would probably rather lead an army of blacksmiths than an army of soldiers.

 

 

[tneva82]

2) The Tower of Genji. Moiraine. Mat. Thom... who is the third? Is it actually Noal? I cant remember seeing it was Noal for sure, I thought it wasn't. I have a feeling it could be Brigitte (Mat IS going to Caemlyn).

 

Noal is the 3rd guy.

 

- Rand, being cured of insanity, will lay his ego aside and bow to Fortuona in a state of submission. This will forge the alliance between them and him.

 

Or maybe not. That's part of Ishamael-influenced prophecies.

 

- Taim will reveal himself to be Demandred (who will then be slain by Logain).

 

Won't happen. By the time Robert Jordan said we hadn't yet seen Demandred's alter-ego Taim had been seen already. Therefore Taim ain't Demandred.

[Durinax]

Quote

- Rand, being cured of insanity, will lay his ego aside and bow to Fortuona in a state of submission. This will forge the alliance between them and him.

 

Or maybe not. That's part of Ishamael-influenced prophecies.

isnt the real one about rand binding the 9 moons to him, I cant recall too well

[Thorn]

 

There's another mystery bound up in Callandor. It's the only thing which can resist balefire. How is that possible?

 

 

That might have been a function of the amount of raw power Rand was channeling at that point. i.e., it might not be that Callandor deflects balefire, but that it's possible to deflect Balefire when you're using that much power.

 

Didn't that scene take place in tel'aran'rhiod, too? Rand might've been able to non-consciously manipulate the balefire via the World of Dreams.

 

Too many variables. Good subject for an author question, I think.

[lbeefus]

- Rand BETTER make some ammends with everyone he has been a prick to.

 

I'd settle with a few key characters that he's close to (it'd be nice to include Hurin).  I don't think he needs to make amends with characters like Cadsuane, etc.

 

And one last little side note, I think Perrin might be put in charge of Aludra's quest. He's a blacksmith, needs something to do, and would probably rather lead an army of blacksmiths than an army of soldiers.

 

I feel the narrative arc for Perrin has been him overcoming his reluctance to both fighting and to leading men, which is represented by his wish to be a simple blacksmith.  That arc wouldn't mean as much if he ended up being a blacksmith again, even if it was as a leader.  He still hasn't embraced his nature as a wolf, which I imagine will be the last part of his coming into his own as a true leader and one of the triad.

[lillcheese]

 

Does anyone else think its suspicious that Sorelia (sp) is the only one Cadsuane showed the collar too right before it got stolen?

 

 

Both Bair & Sorilea are present for that.  Sorilea hisses that the domination band is evil.  Bair has a less marked reaction.

 

I wonder how much Cadsuane has trusted the other AS.  She didn't think at any point before showing the WO that she was the only one who knew where the band was.

 

Also, Sorilea is extremely weak in the OP.  I doubt she could channel enough to overcome Cadsuane's wards.

 

Conclusion:  Bair is a DF. We haven't seen enough Aiel DFs overall.

[Ishmayl]

Rand and Tam again... Tam might not be abel to forgive rand for trying to kill him. who knows.

 

 

I find that extremely doubtful.  I think Tam's feelings for and forgiveness of Rand are going to be very paramount to Rand recovering after TGS.  Think about it, just because he's laughed again doesn't mean everything he's made wrong is all of a sudden right again.  He's going to have to talk to some people and settle some things, and Tam being stable, steady, and strong are going to be key points to Rand's recovery, I'm pretty sure.

 

 

[DarkSage]

I'm more interested in Min discovering what the prophecy about Callandor means, however I have my suspicions. It seems too coincidental to me that RAnd is in love with 2 women who can channel, which is exactly what he needs to safely wield Callandor, of course Min's part is in figuring out what the three of them need to do. Most likely it means that the three people who are linked(in this case Rand/Avi/Elayne)will have to figure out how to weave saidin/saidar as one unit, rather than the women having control, "representing the three becoming one". How this could be done, I'm not sure of yet, but it seems the only logical explaination right now.