Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[ed2funy]

lmao...drunk already?

 

 

Fortuona walks in with four damane leashed on her wrists.

"And what, dear man are you doing on my throne*

 

Some guy sitting on the throne is absorbed in fire along with his court.

"Teach those mutha f**kas what's what. Mothers milk in a cup."

 

*Seanchan is now headed by it's rightful Empress*

 

;D

[thewalrus777]

lmao...drunk already?

 

 

Fortuona walks in with four damane leashed on her wrists.

"And what, dear man are you doing on my throne*

 

Some guy sitting on the throne is absorbed in fire along with his court.

"Teach those mutha f**kas what's what. Mothers milk in a cup."

 

*Seanchan is now headed by it's rightful Empress*

 

;D

 

I wish i had booze. :( Because, i would be drunk indeed! ;D

Oh yes...mothers milk in a cup.

[Noname]

This is my first post, ive read all the pages up until now( took me quite some time haha) and sorry if this has been stated somewhere else, i just cant find it.

 

I think it would be great to know whats going on in those Seanchan towers, i think it would be

interesting if the towers in Seanchan harboured males who could channel. i cant remember if any of the

Seanchan commented on what was done to them, execution?

 

Which leads me to my next thought.Ive been wondering whether the Seanchan suffer the same problem as

the Aes Sedai in regards to the strength in power dwindling for the past thousand years or so. Alivia is

strong in the power but 400 or so years old if i remember correctly which could indicate anything. do they

suffer this problem or because they find every damane they do have strong channelers, but still Aes Sedai

did mention they believed they were culling the ability out of humanity and the way Seanchan look at female

channelers im not sure whether they could see themselves using male even for something as that.

 

Oh and i do believe that Rand sickness comes from hes darkness, though i believed for a long time it came from the balefire with moridin, i believe that around this time he became more darker and harder as he progressed, then dark rand goes BAM and everything is bad like all spoiling grain and all bad tavern happenings.

[Sharaman]

Rand in TFoH is under the impression that men who can channel are instantly killed in Seanchan which is why he's very angry when a Seeker tries to lie to him about this.

The only other major mention of the Seanchan attitude to male channelers is Tuon thinking of the times when Seanchan rebels have tried to use male channelers (she called them black tempests) and usually ended up getting destroyed by them when they go insane. 

Casual mentions by Karede and Tylee in their PoVs about Ashaman

 

The Seanchan system and the AS system both lead to one similar effect. Sparkers cease to have kids in Seanchan and both sparkers and non-sparkers have few kids in Westlands. In Seanchan, it's considered perverted to sleep with a damane (Tuon says so to Mat in WH) and very few AS have kids for whatever reasons.

We don't even know whether Sul'dam marry or have kids very often - we don't have any such indication from their PoV.

So there would be a tendency for the channeling gene to disappear out of these pools.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

RJ's blog 22 November 2005 "I'M BAAAA-AAACK"

 

Tuon is stating a misbelief [that damane can tell fortunes], really, a Seanchan urban folk tale, if you will.  The Seanchan no longer know about Foretelling — though they are beginning to hear reports – but they have memories of the knowledge, you might say.  There memories have gotten twisted into the widespread belief that any damane can tell your fortune.  This belief is strengthened by the fact that some damane actually can Foretell, and more of them than on "this" side of the Aryth Ocean, a facet of sul'dam remaining in the breeding pool with the result that there are a higher percentage of women who potentially could channel among the Seanchan than on the Eastern side of the ocean.  And also a higher percentage of many Talents.

 

 

[aunt_pol]

 

 

I've thought about this breeding thing a few times, too, and it seemeth me that the Seafolk & the Aiel should be overrun with channelers, comparatively speaking. They're the only societies where channeling women are respected, and we have a fair few quotes & POVs, I think, mentioning husbands and childer. I guess the Wisdom tradition is why Alanna and Verin find such a great haul of sparkers and learners in the Two Rivers, and the Wise Women trad in Ebou Dar, I assume, should have created a rich enough strain there too.

 

Whereas, the Aes Sedai seem to have virtually no children, even the married ones, and Tuon looks appalled at the idea Mat might have been 'visiting' a damane in Tylin's palace so I'd say a total lack of breeding by damane in Seanchan is responsible for the huge value attributed to them. The sul'dam offspring are that of learners, too, not sparkers, whether that affects the heredity of strength etc...

 

P.S, I think someone has a conversation, perhaps with Alviarin? Or about Alviarin, somehow, bemoaning the culling of the ability... How can they think that it's only been culled because of the destruction of male channelers, when they're nearly all celibate?

 

 

[Sharaman]

Well according to RJ, about 3% of the AoL population had channeling capability though not everybody bothered.

Also, according to him, it's sliced down to around 1% or less in the 3000 years since the Breaking as male channelers have been culled out and AS, marath'damane also removed from the gene pool.

The numbers we have suggest it's even lower.

We do see the Aiel with more Saidar channelers since they find them all. There are around 700-1000 AS in the entire Westlands (population what? 25-30 million) plus the kin and Wilders. Each Aiel clan seems to have 100s of channelers going by the fact that the Shaido had 250-300. The clans are each around 250,000, given around 1,00,000 spears to a clan and about 1 of three Aiel is a warrior. So 12 clans (total population 3-4 million) can muster around 2,500 Saidar channelers, Give relative populations of Westland and Aiel in the Waste, the percentage of Aiel channelers seems much more than Westlands.

But it's still far less than we'd expect - at a 1% rate, we'd expect 15,000 potential Saidar channelers.

We don't know about the Athan Miere but if every ship has a Windfinder, that's a lot of strong channelers.

 

The Saidin thing is a total puzzle - the BT was able to put together a force of 900 guys who were all strong enough to make Gates in a very short time.

We don't know how many were sparkers and how many were turned away because they're not strong enough

We do know that the Red had only found around 24 sparkers in 20 years (excluding Taim, Logain and Rand).

So there may have been a huge number of "learners".

We have no hint that any Aiel Saidin channelers signed up for Taim's crash course.

We don't know how often male sparkers arise in SeaFolk, Seanchan etc.

[ed2funy]

There are about 900-1000 Aes Sedai. It is less now that some Black have died of course. ::)

 

I believe the Shaido had 350-400 Wise Ones who could channel. ;D

 

 

I would say the BT was able to do that because of the fact that it was the first time men had gathered in 3,000 years. They all rushed to check if they could channel. And there were the scouting parties.

 

I have been wondering if the Aiel males have checked to see if they can channel.

Imagine a fighting force that could kill you form 100 paces off with either their bow or the Power.

[Sharaman]

All these nos are very approx. But even 500 chanellers / clan leaves you well short of the minimum 1% expectation. And Aiel percentages are clearly higher than Westlands.

We've not seen any reference to Aiel Saidin channellers at all.

 

 

[Durinax]

All these nos are very approx. But even 500 chanellers / clan leaves you well short of the minimum 1% expectation. And Aiel percentages are clearly higher than Westlands.

We've not seen any reference to Aiel Saidin channellers at all.

 

 

aiel saidin channellers kill themselves by going into the blight to try and kill the DO, it was referenced earlier, I canot recall which book

[randfandom]

Also, according to him, it's sliced down to around 1% or less in the 3000 years since the Breaking as male channelers have been culled out and AS, marath'damane also removed from the gene pool.

The numbers we have suggest it's even lower.

We do see the Aiel with more Saidar channelers since they find them all. There are around 700-1000 AS in the entire Westlands (population what? 25-30 million) plus the kin and Wilders. Each Aiel clan seems to have 100s of channelers going by the fact that the Shaido had 250-300. The clans are each around 250,000, given around 1,00,000 spears to a clan and about 1 of three Aiel is a warrior. So 12 clans (total population 3-4 million) can muster around 2,500 Saidar channelers, Give relative populations of Westland and Aiel in the Waste, the percentage of Aiel channelers seems much more than Westlands.

 

From what I remember, Rand had over 150,000 spears with him in tFoH before the last 4 clans joined, and the Shaido had a similar number (but including non-combatants). Based on these counts, I'd put the total Aiel population at well over 1 million people. The number of potential Aiel channelers should thus be at or over 10,000, but that includes both males and females. The actual channelers would only be the female half. Males are killed if they are sparkers (well, sent to the blight which is the same thing) and not identified otherwise. So we will have about 5000-6000 Aiel channelers at the most.

 

The Shaido WO's alone number over 400. With 12 clans, assuming equal distribution, this comes to right about 5000 channelers - as stated above. So the Aiel clearly hit the 1% mark since there is no reason to assume a smaller population of potential male channelers.

 

The Aes Sedai only take channelers that are above a certain level, they did not actively search for them but waited for women to seek them out, and in addition refused to accept for training any woman over 18. Thus missed out on the great majority of potential channelers.

 

The Saidin thing is a total puzzle - the BT was able to put together a force of 900 guys who were all strong enough to make Gates in a very short time.

We don't know how many were sparkers and how many were turned away because they're not strong enough

 

The BT does not turn away any channelers, regardless of strength, and they actively search - going especially to isolated vilages, that appear to have a larger pool of untapped talent because they did not lose potential channelers to the WT. Since men are far stronger than women, it's no wonder that more can create gateways of useful size, but judging by how many Rand is actually using (under 200) I'd venture to guess the majority of male channelers can't open gateways or not large enough anyway.

 

[ed2funy]

All these nos are very approx. But even 500 chanellers / clan leaves you well short of the minimum 1% expectation. And Aiel percentages are clearly higher than Westlands.

We've not seen any reference to Aiel Saidin channellers at all.

 

 

aiel saidin channellers kill themselves by going into the blight to try and kill the DO, it was referenced earlier, I canot recall which book

 

But now their Car'a'carn channels.

He has cleansed the Source.

 

Surely they know this by now.

[lordofsoup]

this has always been the one main thing that i have found lacking in the series, a true description of what Aeil Channelers do, men and women. 

 

It seems like the should have been atleast one Aeil man who found out he was a sparker since Rand cleansed the source, or at least he proclaimed himself Car'acan.

[ed2funy]

The Car'a'carn wasn't guaranteed to be a channeler or anything.

They said that over and over when Rand tried to say he was the DR. They didn't care for wetlander prophecies.

 

Female channelers become Wise Ones. They get their own clan (hopefully) or sept or w/e.

 

I agree that one Aiel would have at least sparked.

Before they would go fight the DO to their death. Now....what?

We haven't seen it.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Thing is their chat about the ability of the Carnie Carnie to channel is all cods' wallets as the DR is the Carnie Carnie therefore the Carnie Carnie always can channel. Always being the word in the fishs' money pocket here - their stories about the Carnie Carnie have only existed since sometime after LTT and before Rand.

 

Basically its Cods' Wallets.

[lordofsoup]

The Car'a'carn wasn't guaranteed to be a channeler or anything.

They said that over and over when Rand tried to say he was the DR. They didn't care for wetlander prophecies.

 

Female channelers become Wise Ones. They get their own clan (hopefully) or sept or w/e.

 

I agree that one Aiel would have at least sparked.

Before they would go fight the DO to their death. Now....what?

We haven't seen it.

do they still do it, but just not tell Rand?

 

Even though i dont like them I am looking forward to some of our Ogier meeting the Seanchan Ogier.

[Luckers]

Lock corrected. Feel free to discuss.

[TheBeerPatriot]

I predict....that ToM will be larger than TGS.  Film at 11.

 

In other predictions for ToM:

-Rand will know the Amyrlin's wrath

-The Song will be found

-Mat loses an eye yet saves Moiraine

-Taim is taken down by Logain

-Gaidal Cain is revealed

-Perrin returns to Rand's side

[Durinax]

I predict....that ToM will be larger than TGS.  Film at 11.

 

In other predictions for ToM:

-Rand will know the Amyrlin's wrath

-The Song will be found

-Mat loses an eye yet saves Moiraine

-Taim is taken down by Logain

-Gaidal Cain is revealed

-Perrin returns to Rand's side

Gaidal Cain, it doesnt matter who he is reborn as, and he will be too young to be involved in Tarmon Gaidin (at least in a purposeful role)

[thewalrus777]

Thing is their chat about the ability of the Carnie Carnie to channel is all cods' wallets as the DR is the Carnie Carnie therefore the Carnie Carnie always can channel. Always being the word in the fishs' money pocket here - their stories about the Carnie Carnie have only existed since sometime after LTT and before Rand.

 

Basically its Cods' Wallets.

 

British?

[Crael123]

why was this thread locked? we  were all being nice to eachother

[Sharaman]

why was this thread locked? we  were all being nice to eachother

It was a preemptive lock. Just to show everyone that Luckers was watching and would take action.

 

[Crael123]

why was this thread locked? we  were all being nice to eachother

It was a preemptive lock. Just to show everyone that Luckers was watching and would take action.

 

 

oh okay gotcha

[ed2funy]

I think he was just having fun with his powers.

Horrible man. :D :P

lol

[thewalrus777]

why was this thread locked? we  were all being nice to eachother

It was a preemptive lock. Just to show everyone that Luckers was watching and would take action.

 

 

oh okay gotcha

 

Someone asked Luckers in a previous post about this thread being locked and he said it was wasn't supposed to be locked when the boards merged but got locked somehow. He just said he would unlock it.