Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[emyali]

 

Brilliance personified - yeah right.  Min's viewing indicated Perrin would have to be there twice to pull Rand's bacon out of the fire and Dumai's Wells was the first.  Some folks have argued the second save occurred when Cads retrieved Tam from Perrin's company, but that seem too tenuous to me.

 

Min's viewing said nothing about Perrin helping Rand, she said :

"Twice he's going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad"

[emyali]

she has to make leaving one of her wishes... remember mat had to do that and he didn't add alive so that's why he was hung

I always assumed he got hung because he didn't bargain before making his wishes(they set the price; his life)?

 

i think Moiraine didnt get her wishes because she didnt agree on terms with them (for she already knew 4m before that she has another chance to escape)..

 

for i remember when the Eelfinn told him fool, fool, fool.. after he said what he wants and one of them said “Wise to ask leavetaking, when you set no price, no terms.” and another said“Yet fool not to first agree on price.”

 

:) the shadow rising is my fav. book of the series and re-read the doorways chapters over and over :)

 

 

[clu7ch]

I'd say min's viewings have something to do with the Two Rivers in TSR. The original goal of Fain/White Cloaks was to get rand, but they got Perrin instead. His family was murdered.

[emyali]

I'd say min's viewings have something to do with the Two Rivers in TSR. The original goal of Fain/White Cloaks was to get rand, but they got Perrin instead. His family was murdered.

 

Min viewed this after Perrin returned from the two rivers not before

[clu7ch]

(: i was pulling at straws there, sorry for the mess up lol.

[emyali]

(: i was pulling at straws there, sorry for the mess up lol.

 

:)

never mind

i think by the 2nd time

its not just by having perrin around.. but maybe Mat also

because when Perrin was near Rand she sees the firflies  holding their own against the darkness instead of being eaten faster than they can swarm when Rand is alone..

when reading it the 1st times it was sound like it means the chance of the light side (Rand and his allies) against the shadows

but in re-reading it again and again

Min said exactly: "When you two were together, I saw those fireflies and the darkness stronger than ever...But with the two of you in the same room, the fireflies were holding their own instead of being eaten faster than they can swarm, the way they do when you're alone. And there's something else I saw when you two were together. Twice he's going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad, Rand."

this seems to mean that they will have to be very very close in Rand's ultimate fight againt the shadow.. not just helping him fighting the shadow with their forces or whatever

[Lancer]

You know something that I just thought about...How is the White Tower (Egwene) going to deal w/ The Dragon Reborn (Rand)???  She said countless times that he has gone too long w/o supervision and w/o guidance.  And I know she holds him responsible for the incidents at the Black Tower.  So I wonder how she plans on dealing with this.

[Jemlin]

You know something that I just thought about...How is the White Tower (Egwene) going to deal w/ The Dragon Reborn (Rand)???  She said countless times that he has gone too long w/o supervision and w/o guidance.  And I know she holds him responsible for the incidents at the Black Tower.  So I wonder how she plans on dealing with this.

 

Well first I imagine Egwene will box his ears.  Rand will then whip her with a thread of Air.

 

Then Egwene will call him a Whoolheaded sheepherder and Rand will get all stone faced and his eyes will look like fire.

 

Then Nynaeve will pull her braid, call them both thickheaded bufoons, grab them by their hair and drag them outside.  A barrel full of cold water will be ready for their heads to get dunked into, until they are sputtering apologies.

 

Afterthat, I think they will engage in civilized conversation about what is best for Randland.

 

;D

[emyali]

You know something that I just thought about...How is the White Tower (Egwene) going to deal w/ The Dragon Reborn (Rand)???  She said countless times that he has gone too long w/o supervision and w/o guidance.  And I know she holds him responsible for the incidents at the Black Tower.  So I wonder how she plans on dealing with this.

 

in the gathering storm, When Egwene was talking with the white sisters about how would she handle the Dragon Reborn issue if she was the Amyrlin.. she clearly showed that the mistake was that they concern about "Dealing" with the Dragon Rebon instead of "Working" with him..

if she kept this view.. things could go well between her and Rand

[RenaldFanwar]

Anyone know the exact quote where Moiraine ponders upon her bond moving on to Myrelle? I think that part would have been totally redundant if RJ hadn't planned on keeping Lan alive.

 

i hav searched, but i dont believe there is anything frm moiraine's pov regarding the bond transfer thing before-hand.

chances are i havnt searched deep enuff, still letting u knw

 

btw,luvd the whole tigraine/ed saga!(classic RJ stuff) ;) bickering over an issue which isnt there

speaking of which, imo nynave's importance peaked at the cleansing, n thogh she ws quite brilliant briefly b4 she left Lan at World's End there isn't much more she cud do to build on it,except perhaps yanking her braid 10x more

and Lan had his fair share of limelight when he thought Rand his first lessons in warfare, but now he is just another pawn in a giant chessboard,  commanding just another army in the Last Battle. His dying/living will be of zero importance to the pattern

i mean this ain't some fun day at the beach, this is the Last Battle , people are gonna die left right n centre.

[WolfDragonFox]

http://www.bygosh.com/aesop/FaC.htm  Everyone should read the story on this page because I personally have never seen this comparison made to RJ's writing but maybe it should be and maybe it already has been pointed out but here is where I see the future of Mat and Fortuona. 

 

That was a nice warm up, now to what I've come to speak on today.

 

[quote author=WolfDragonFox link=topic=49647.msg1380562#msg1380562 Obviouslyat the beginning i thought that the Harb maybe more important than the flute (for all that caring for it in the early books) .. but in a second thought.. the flute seems better idea, as it is easier to hide and the finn are like snakes, so whenever i think of snakes and music the 1st thing to pump in my head the indians street entertainers playing the flute to make the snakes dance out of the pots :D

 

I see after reading your response, emyali, that you make a very nice case.  It is funny how Thom prizes that harp so much yet it will be the flute that will be the savior.  I think the Indian snake charmers you mentioned will be the inspiration behind the Music to dazzle part of the riddle.  So I did some digging and thought of all things of my love for Anime to begin my search for all things fox...lol.  But it was in many japanese legends that there is an association to foxes and fire.  Mostly it is of them using fire to some degree but I thought to myself okay here are two plausible connections to two pieces of the riddle.  So my take is now that the Fire will be used to dispatch the Foxes/Aelfinn, probably by Noal and the Music from the flute will be used to dispatch the Snakes/Eelfinn.  So yes this does leave Iron and Courage to figure out but i'm reasonable sure these will be the uses of fire and music though i'm sure someone has already thought of it.  Maybe they will lure them into cages of iron.  Hmm

 

[wipe]

from Egwene'd dream of Mat placing his own left eye on a balance scale, it seems obvious he will do lose his eye in trading or as a price..

and i dont think he will do that for Moiraine, for if they asked for his eye as a price why not Thom to give it not him!!

 

 

Doesn't it say somewhere that Mat will give up half the light of the worls to save it... That sounds about right for the bargain you're talking about. He gives up his eye (half the light) to:

1) save Moraine, who is needed for good guys to win (my guess).

2) something he will need more persomally in the upcoming battles to succeed.

 

And how do you get the boxes around he quotes  ???

[Anulith]

I thought of something today that struck me as strange.  I follow Brandon Sanderson's twitter feed and today he mentioned being fairly productive on Towers of Midnight.  He then started sending out tweets about various people's names being used for characters in the last battle.  I thought this was kind of strange.  Do you think he would take a break from TOM to work on the last battle in the last book?  I don't know.  He is extremely focused and has a self imposed deadline of January for the first draft of TOM.  I don't see him taking a break to work on the last book.  He does sometimes take breaks to work on other books but this is generally a long term break, like a few weeks to a few months.  Not just a few hours, at least if he does he hasn't really mentioned it in his blog or elsewhere that I've seen.

 

What I'm getting at here is the possibility that the final battle will actually appear in TOM.  If this were to actually happen what would the last book be?  I have a theory...the good guys will lose the last battle but will save everything somehow in the last book.  I know it's pretty far fetched and I give it only about a .05% chance of actually happening this way but still...

[accelerate]

What I'm getting at here is the possibility that the final battle will actually appear in TOM.  If this were to actually happen what would the last book be?  I have a theory...the good guys will lose the last battle but will save everything somehow in the last book.  I know it's pretty far fetched and I give it only about a .05% chance of actually happening this way but still...

 

I doubt it. Remember in one of Brandon's blog posts (the one dealing with the split into three books) that his temporary title for the last book was called Tarmon Gai'din. So unless he had a major reworking on what each book contained, I don't think we'll see the majority of the last battle in the next book. Though I think we may get a couple of precursor battles that lead up to the main event.

[charis sedai]

 

And how do you get the boxes around he quotes  ???

 

in the top of each response is a quote link. hit it.

 

:)

[Auld Manriva]

from Egwene'd dream of Mat placing his own left eye on a balance scale, it seems obvious he will do lose his eye in trading or as a price..

and i dont think he will do that for Moiraine, for if they asked for his eye as a price why not Thom to give it not him!!

 

 

Doesn't it say somewhere that Mat will give up half the light of the worls to save it... That sounds about right for the bargain you're talking about. He gives up his eye (half the light) to:

1) save Moraine, who is needed for good guys to win (my guess).

2) something he will need more persomally in the upcoming battles to succeed.

And how do you get the boxes around he quotes  ???

 

Upper right portion of each post frame... where it says: Quote  ;)

OR

in reply window > lower row of square icons > second icon from right (which if you hover your pointer it will read "insert quote".. any highlighted text will get quote code before and after.

OR

do this ... [*quote] [*/quote] .. enter text between brackets (without the asterisks).

[ed2funy]

 

btw,luvd the whole tigraine/ed saga!(classic RJ stuff) ;) bickering over an issue which isnt there

speaking of which, imo nynave's importance peaked at the cleansing, n thogh she ws quite brilliant briefly b4 she left

 

I think Nyn may have importance to the AS...she could eventually become head of the Yellow....

 

Doesn't it say somewhere that Mat will give up half the light of the worls to save it... That sounds about right for the bargain you're talking about. He gives up his eye (half the light) to:

1) save Moraine, who is needed for good guys to win (my guess).

2) something he will need more persomally in the upcoming battles to succeed.

 

Wow....never really followed the Mat thread....and the whole lose and eye thing...but that is awesome...

[Anulith]

I doubt it. Remember in one of Brandon's blog posts (the one dealing with the split into three books) that his temporary title for the last book was called Tarmon Gai'din. So unless he had a major reworking on what each book contained, I don't think we'll see the majority of the last battle in the next book. Though I think we may get a couple of precursor battles that lead up to the main event.

 

 

Ok, so I had a whole other post typed here and then I went to quote one of the tweets that directly says something about someone's name being used in the Last Battle only to find that they did not say that.  I guess somewhere in my mind some pathways got crossed and I read the tweets all as being in reference to the Last Battle.  I admit my error and say we should all move on.  Like I said before, even when I thought the tweets were in reference to the Last Battle, I only gave it a .05% chance of happening.

 

On a related note, he does say:

 

Christopher Helmke, you survive. (For now.) Duty is heavier than a mountain...

 

This leads me to believe that we will at least see Lan's battle at the gap in TOM.

[emyali]

So yes this does leave Iron and Courage to figure out but i'm reasonable sure these will be the uses of fire and music though i'm sure someone has already thought of it.  Maybe they will lure them into cages of iron.  Hmm

 

what if the bind means bind the parallel dimensions of the Finn & the Eelfinn!!

For it never made sense 2 me they just live together (foxes eat snakes, not live peacefully with them !!"

plus, when Mat entered the door ways it didnt seem like the same place.

What u think?

 

[ed2funy]

i don't think they live in the same buildings...

but in the same world...yes

 

Mat saw the different structures from windows in each world i believe...

 

Pssst...

Shouldn't someone just create a Finn thread...(is there on already), where we can discuss how they fit into the whole story...they have a lot, even though we haven't really seen them..

[ed2funy]

i don't think they live in the same buildings...

but in the same world...yes

 

Mat saw the different structures from windows in each world i believe...

 

Pssst...

Shouldn't someone just create a Finn thread...(is there on already ???), where we can discuss how they fit into the whole story...they have a lot, even though we haven't really seen them..

[lsm]

i really like that idea about perrin being the third one to go to the tower.

 

remember he actually followed slayer to the tower in TAR and was given some info about it.. either from birgitte or hopper

 

and his hammer might very well be made out of iron. I bet it's mentioned early on when he works at the forge and earns it, or when RJ describes it sitting on the ground next to his axe in the stone of tear

[Shard]

Following Brandon's Facebook/Twitter feed he seems to be naming quite a few Asha'man seems like we are getting our Black Tower story in ToM.  ;D

[mossman87]

Following Brandon's Facebook/Twitter feed he seems to be naming quite a few Asha'man seems like we are getting our Black Tower story in ToM.  ;D

 

Yeah his twitter is pretty funny, it's like, "Hey Bob, you're losing a leg, but John will make sure you live, woot!"

[Declan]

i really like that idea about perrin being the third one to go to the tower.

 

remember he actually followed slayer to the tower in TAR and was given some info about it.. either from birgitte or hopper

 

and his hammer might very well be made out of iron. I bet it's mentioned early on when he works at the forge and earns it, or when RJ describes it sitting on the ground next to his axe in the stone of tear

 

if you remember Moiraine says that three must go in: Mat, Thom, and someone she does not know.

 

she knows who Perrin is. IT won't be him.

 

Following Brandon's Facebook/Twitter feed he seems to be naming quite a few Asha'man seems like we are getting our Black Tower story in ToM.  ;D

 

I think we will see a lot of Caemlyn. Elayne on the throne doing whatever ( i could care less about her), Mat there briefly and opens his letter (fingers crossed), and the Black Tower situation. Which the BT will be awesome to see some POVs in again.