Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[lillcheese]

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

Well, I suppose it warrants considering the option, but like someone else said, RJ stated that we have seen mesaanas alter ego, and I can't remember ever reading about her before. I'd suspect that it is just a red herring, especially after watching a recent interview with BS (

) talking about the amount of detailed work that RJ put into the surroundings of scenes, writing specific details about hundreds of charachters that were just part of someones army, never apearing at all in the books, but still having a name and background. It wouldn't be too hard or inconcieveable to just mention one of those.

RJ stated that one may create an Oath Rod in TAR and use it to unbind oneself. Not sure how that worked given they were used as binders on criminals in an Age were every Aes Sedai was trained in Tel'aran'rhiod, but he said it nonetheless.

"I swear to not do this, and that I will never try to free myself from this oath".

 

Holy crap what if the Shadow wins? Nobody saw that coming. Can't decide if I'd love the ending or hate it.

RJ mentioned in an interview with Fast Forward (either december 2005 or march 2003, I watched both on youtube at the same time and can't remember which one it was) a few years back that one thing he believe draws people to fantasy and the core of the genre is that people know that in the end, the good people win, and that it would be the same here.

 

Go read the Forsaken Round Up thread for a discussion on Evanellein.

[susanholmen]

Avi's glass columns thing will be awesome!

 

Perrin and Mat finally coming together with Rand. The pulling, tugging has returned and I suspect that they're going to all cross paths again in Towers of Midnight. The vision of Perrin with Galad makes this almost a certainty to me.

 

What is Verin's letter to Mat. Will we see him reclaim the Horn again?

 

The identity of Gaidal Cain.

 

 

I can't wait to see Logain whomp on Taim!!!

And does anyone else think Olver is Gaidal Cain?

 

 

Faile being revealed as a Darkfriend.

 

Demandred.

 

Logain whomping on Taim's ass.

[Strykr017]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Narishma will have an important role to play? Not only is he destined to "follow after," but it's mentioned that he's growing to be very powerful. And perhaps most importantly, Rand seems to trust him. He showed him how to weave balefire, and that was at the point when he was "Dark Rand" or whatever people like to call him.

[balerion]

Maybe we will actually get to see Elyane so we know she hasn't just wandered off and died.

[LewsTT]

Hello,

I am new to this board and just wanted to post some ideas and see what you guys think (sorry if these are obvious or posted before but I was bored with books 8-11 and just read through the boring parts as fast as possible).

I believe that Rand is currently holding Artur Hawkwings sword ‘Justice’.  Since there were numerous references to the new sword he is holding in book 12 and at the end of book 2 “The Cycle of the Dragon” states “Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.”

I am just curious how this might play out and if it is so that he has Justice.

Also I believe that the book the Towers of Midnight is going to hash out the problems between Rand and the Seanchan since the Towers of Midnight appear to be towers in Seandar.  On page 573 of The Great Hunt states that when Deain (the creator of the A’dam) was finally leashed “her screams shook the Towers of Midnight”.  So I believe that this is a direct reference to the Seanchan and am curious to see what happens. 

I also want to see how they will work out the separate prophecies of the dragon where one states The dragon will kneel before the empress and the other that states the DR will bind the daughter of the 9 moons to him and she will serve him.  Why I am curious is because now that Tuon is now the Empress Fourtuna and no longer the daughter of the Moons, how does this work. 

 

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

The sword was confirmed as Justice even before the book was released; Claireducky was told by someone with a close relationship with Team Jordan.

 

Also, there has been discussion that since the prophecy reads 'Bind the nine moons' it was probably referring to the empress. Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons, implying her mother was the "nine moons" prior to her demise. Once Fortuona assumed the throne, she became the nine moons, hence Rand's initial meeting with her was bound to fail. I cannot remember who posted this theory, but I personally agree with it.

 

The Towers of Midnight are indeed structures in Seanchan, but the title 'Towers of Midnight' lacks "the," implying it is not in regards to that specific place/location/set of buildings. I personally believe it refers to the fact that the book will deal with the Black Tower (infested by darkfriends), the White Tower (Mesaana, four remaining Bloodknives), and the Tower of Ghenji, all of which have the potential to greatly disable the forces of light as Tarmon Gai'don approaches.

 

Obviously, having hundreds of Asha'man sworn to Shai'tan will be a huge detriment to Rand, as he is counting on them to fight for him, not turn on him. I also agree with the theory about the Black Ajah fleeing to the Black Tower.

Mesaana in the White Tower can still cause harm, be it by kidnapping Aes Sedai and turning them, or just gaining foreknowledge of their plans for the Last Battle.

The Tower of Ghenji holds Moraine, who is said to be necessary for Rand's victory. He could still win without her, but Min has said he would almost definitely fail without a woman long dead, who is probably Moraine. Also, Mat will be risking his neck by going to save her, and he is needed both as a general and a ta'veren.

[steave435]

I also want to see how they will work out the separate prophecies of the dragon where one states The dragon will kneel before the empress and the other that states the DR will bind the daughter of the 9 moons to him and she will serve him.  Why I am curious is because now that Tuon is now the Empress Fourtuna and no longer the daughter of the Moons, how does this work.

The seanchan prophecies has been twisted and corrupted by ishmael, so they're not reliable. As for the daughter of the moons thing, it's not a problem since it's missquated: It actually says that he will bind "the nine moons" not "the daughter of the nine moons". Like Jaric says, that's either the empress, or a general reference to the royal family, can compare it to stuff like "the Court of the Nine Moons" where the empress/emperors audience chamber (and presumably the crystal throne) is located.

 

 

[Express]

This was brought up awhile ago(unsure who,apologies), "We will get confirmation from the DO or Moridin that Graendel is balefired.  We will also find out what MEsanna was doing during the attack/if she is still in White Tower."  Graendel is dead, she'd have to have used compulsion on Rand to live.

 

As for what Mesaana was doing during the attack, she was cutting off one of Sheriam's fingers for not getting the dream angreal.

 

My question for the next book would be, how powerful is Mat?  According to Verin if Rand wasn't alive Mat would be the most powerful Ta'veren to live in centuries.  

 

I would also ask how long the next book would be?  This book was a real fast read, even slowing down the second time to try and get the little things.

[benr]

Jaric Mar Tedronai - Give credit where credit is due.

 

Perhaps you did come up with Mesaana=Laras independently, but this theory has been around since at least March, 2008.

[jemron]

I just read somewhere (don't remember where, theoryland maybe?) that BS said Towers of Midnight would be longer than TGS.

[Krimzin]

The seanchan prophecies has been twisted and corrupted by ishmael, so they're not reliable.

 

 

 

Where is the reference for that? Not calling you a liar, I am just not familiar with it at all.

[Declan]

I just can't see Mesaana = Laras. Doesn't quite work out in my head. I think it would not be a good twist or revelation.

 

And all the places I have looked seemed to say that Towers of Midnight will be one of the longest books so far. Which makes sense since alot of stuff has to come together. I know the RJ meant for somethings to never be solved or finished. but if even 30 - 40% of stuff gets resolved in the next book that is ALOT.

 

I just want to see more Mat. Elayne......maybe. Hopefully see her not all moody. And alot more of the Black Tower and have the Borderlanders go back! it has been way too long! How many books will they draw out for that army marching around. Unless they have been influenced by Demandred they have been acting like idiots.

[Zaaron]

I also want to see how they will work out the separate prophecies of the dragon where one states The dragon will kneel before the empress and the other that states the DR will bind the daughter of the 9 moons to him and she will serve him.  Why I am curious is because now that Tuon is now the Empress Fourtuna and no longer the daughter of the Moons, how does this work.

The seanchan prophecies has been twisted and corrupted by ishmael, so they're not reliable. As for the daughter of the moons thing, it's not a problem since it's missquated: It actually says that he will bind "the nine moons" not "the daughter of the nine moons". Like Jaric says, that's either the empress, or a general reference to the royal family, can compare it to stuff like "the Court of the Nine Moons" where the empress/emperors audience chamber (and presumably the crystal throne) is located.

 

 

 

But what if both prophecies are now correct? It may of been unintended but we know how highly the Seanchan hold their honor, so the difficulty of getting the Empress to agree to serve the Dragon Reborn (Especially with that Prophecy hanging around) would be significant. Prehaps something like this could happen:

 

Rand meets up with Mat and finds out he is married to Toun, he then sends Mat to organise another meeting with the Seanchan. Now, knowing that the Empress cannot meet him on even terms, they Organise a "secret" meeting so that the empress can save Face.

 

During the meeting Toun agrees to serve Rand and in return Rand agrees to publicly kneel to the empress in order to appease the Seanchan Nobility.

 

This way, both the real prophecy takes place and the risk of a Seanchan "rebellion" due to the Toun agreeing to serve Rand in public is averted.

 

What do you guys think of that?

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

I know I wasn't the first one to come up with them or bring these ideas to the table, here or elsewhere, benr, and am not claiming sole responsibility for them. I had posted a big long thing on the other (spoiler free) board prior to reading the book and a day or so later someone miraculously posted pretty much word for word what I had written, just on this board.

 

It doesn't matter much in the big picture, but it is irritating to take the time to post something and then have someone use as their own what you have put time into writing, just on a different board. At this point, basically everything we are coming up with someone has brought up somewhere at some point, so I only was pointing out that I had tried to revitalize them around this release.

 

I always try to refer to someone specifically when using or expanding upon an idea, and it was a source of frustration when someone did not. Even just saying "I saw that someone else thought (abc) and I think it is feasible in (xyz) circumstance." Like I said, it doesn't matter much overall but I was in a bad mood that night.

[Crossroad]

Priorities for

Rand

Seanchan issue - Not sure how he's going to fix that little dilemma

Black Tower - once rand has sorted out the black tower problem he needs to get more of them out into the field. Poor old Perrin only has two Ashaman, and Mat has none if it wasn't for Verin he'd be still stuck in the middle of no ware.

Loilal - I can't wait to see how he went at the big meeting he was going to.

 

Mat

Save Moiraine

Get horn

Meet up with the DR

Perrin

Fix his Wolf issues

Allow Galad to join up with his band(after the family reunion)

 

this is just with include the girls in this evaluation its going to be big.

[Declan]

I have a bad feeling they might draw out Perrin's issues till the last book. I don't think the horn will show up yet. I wil be surprised if it does. I find it more likely that Mat will be seing Tuon again soon. I just want Tuon and Rand be in a room and be like "So i see you have met my wife." I think the new Rand will actually have a reaction.

[Whitering]

No chance of Mat seeing Tuon in the next book unless it is longer. I mean, he has to spend some time in Andor, then has to rescure Moiraine. He will be a long, long way from Ebou Dar. I do wonder if any of the Aes Sedai with him will stay with his band, they certainly seem like a bunch of ungrateful "bad word" so I doubt they will. So, he may lose traveling.

[Blooddrizzt]

OK, i think here are some thing that will happen in ToM. First, Rand will start fixxing everything he can with now using his emotions. He will eventually come into contact with Demandred who i believe is behind the whole borderland issue. Rand will also eventually meet up with Fortuona and with Mat's help rally her troops under Rand for the Last Battle. Rand will go blind through some event possibly Demandred. Rand either in this book or the next will combine Min Farshaw, Elayne Trakand, and Aviendha into on person using Callandor. Perhaps that would be the rebirth of Ilyena, i drew this from the profecy saying he will use the blade of light to make the three into one. Also at the end of TGS it says that he will love her again, not them. I believe Lan will come to a final confrontation against Slayer. If not him, then Mat will have to fight Slayer in the tower while trying to save Moiraine Damodred. Egwene will come into a confrontation with Mesaana and kill her. I believe Galad may try and attack Rand, but Rand will tell them that they are Half Brothers and he will swear under Rand. I believe Gawyn and Egwene will marry and Gawyn will lose his hatred for Rand when he finds out his mother is actually alive. Galad will obviously marry Berelain. Perrin will find out his wolf dream and rally to Rand, and he will get Faile pregneant, Mat will feel an unbearable tug to get to Rand and Perrin after he gets out of the tower. Moiraine Damodred will leave with Mat and Thom and will convince Elayne to come with them and bring the army of Andor. these are just my speculations so far, but alot will happen in the next book.

[Blooddrizzt]

Ok there are two things i forgot to add. Aviendha will NOT walk through the glass pillars. I believe when she gets there the pillars will have ween destroyed by Rand's destruction of Kan, and the body Min forsaw Nynaeve al'Meara standing over looking sad would be Logan's for he died while trying to stop Taim.

[Muad Cheade]

I'll take a page out of Mr Ares' book.

 

OK, i think here are some thing that will happen in ToM. First, Rand will start fixxing everything he can with now using his emotions.

 

Rand's revelation on Dragonmount was just that he had to preserve the world instead of destroying it and it gave him why he was fighting. He is still the same person he was prior to attempting to turn into cuendillar.

 

He will eventually come into contact with Demandred who i believe is behind the whole borderland issue.

 

I don't think Demandred is with the Borderlanders. A main reason that could be seen in TGS is because they are in a stedding, which s Demandred's (and any channelers') main weakness. Also, it doesn't fit into what he said in the Prologue.

 

Rand will also eventually meet up with Fortuona and with Mat's help rally her troops under Rand for the Last Battle.

 

Rand and Tuon's last meeting didn't go well. Now, she has weakened the White Tower and knows how to Travel. The chips are stacked in her favor and she doesn't have to listen to Rand as none of the Seanchan see him as the equal of the Empress.

 

Rand will go blind through some event possibly Demandred.

 

Uhh...maybe. This part of that vision is a little murky. Some would argue it has already been fulfilled toward the end of TGS.

 

Rand either in this book or the next will combine Min Farshaw, Elayne Trakand, and Aviendha into on person using Callandor. Perhaps that would be the rebirth of Ilyena, i drew this from the profecy saying he will use the blade of light to make the three into one. Also at the end of TGS it says that he will love her again, not them.

 

No support for that. Only the Dark One has been seen to have the ability to merge souls. It seems to be an action that would walk on the side of the Shadow. That was Rand/LTT's thoughts about Ilyena. You must remember that they were talking about LTT's mistake in the AoL and that Rand is here to repair it for a second chance with her.

 

I believe Lan will come to a final confrontation against Slayer. If not him, then Mat will have to fight Slayer in the tower while trying to save Moiraine Damodred.

 

No support for that. While Slayer is partly Lan's cousin, he's also partly Rand's uncle so it'd be "right" for both to fight him. Too speculative. And we don't know if Slayer actually went into the Tower or stepped out of T'A'R right before. Jordan was asked on this subject and said RAFO.

 

Egwene will come into a confrontation with Mesaana and kill her.

 

No support. Apparently, all signs point to her having left the Tower. Also, I don't know if Egwene is capable of that as Mesaana would be very much stronger than her.

 

I believe Galad may try and attack Rand, but Rand will tell them that they are Half Brothers and he will swear under Rand....Galad will obviously marry Berelain

 

The first half of that goes against Galad's very nature. Galad and Berelain marrying seems to be the most likely but who knows.

 

I believe Gawyn and Egwene will marry and Gawyn will lose his hatred for Rand when he finds out his mother is actually alive.

 

Both seem very likely. However, he still thinks that Rand has caused most of the current suffering in the world (he has a very valid argument there).

 

Perrin will find out his wolf dream and rally to Rand, and he will get Faile pregneant, Mat will feel an unbearable tug to get to Rand and Perrin after he gets out of the tower, Moiraine Damodred will leave with Mat and Thom and will convince Elayne to come with them and bring the army of Andor..

 

Sure. Why not? You have to remember that the majority of the Andoran soldiers are under-trained though.

 

Ok there are two things i forgot to add. Aviendha will NOT walk through the glass pillars. I welieve when she gets there the pillars will have ween destroyed by Rand's destruction of Kan, and the body Min forsaw Nynaeve al'Meara standing over looking sad would be Logan's for he died while trying to stop Taim.

 

What's "Kan?" Do you mean the Choedan Kal? If so, it would not affect it. The statue itself is in Cairhien. The pillars were still there when Rand left in tFoH and I think it is still there as the Wise Ones probably either Traveled there or DreamWalked there.

 

Logain dying seems unlikely as he is supposed to receive glory. Also, nothing seems to imply that Nynaeve would feel sadness over Logain dying. Too early to speculate.

[jemron]

Ok there are two things i forgot to add. Aviendha will NOT walk through the glass pillars. I believe when she gets there the pillars will have ween destroyed by Rand's destruction of Kan, and the body Min forsaw Nynaeve al'Meara standing over looking sad would be Logan's for he died while trying to stop Taim.

 

I disagree.  I think she will go through the pillars, and that we'll see it.  And I think there will be some clues in her memories that will help with the fight against the DO in the last battle.

[Blooddrizzt]

Ok obviously you never read the part where i said SPECULATION, but you cant disprove anything. Demandred may not have the power but he is 3000 years old, he can probably manipulate like a beast, but tell me this, what are your view on the using the blade of light to COMBINE the three into one. its only know so far that the shadow can do that, but rand has emense power.

[BlastOff]

I don't think Demandred is with the Borderlanders. A main reason that could be seen in TGS is because they are in a stedding, which s Demandred's (and any channelers') main weakness. Also, it doesn't fit into what he said in the Prologue.

 

The Borderlanders weren't in a stedding. Ituralde's troops were in a stedding in Arad Doman before Rand came to them. That's before they headed to the Borderlands. At least as far as I recall.

[coteaz]

The borderlanders were at far madding.

[benr]

I don't think Demandred is with the Borderlanders. A main reason that could be seen in TGS is because they are in a stedding, which s Demandred's (and any channelers') main weakness. Also, it doesn't fit into what he said in the Prologue.

 

The Borderlanders weren't in a stedding. Ituralde's troops were in a stedding in Arad Doman before Rand came to them. That's before they headed to the Borderlands. At least as far as I recall.

 

The Borderlanders are in Far Madding, where the OP doesn't work unless you have an angreal that has stored it.  If Demo is with them, though, and wants to use it, I speculate that the TP would work there.  Rand was wise to avoid them (one of the few wise things he did around then).