Chapter 1 - Spoilers - First Impressions, Thoughts

[Vordreller]

I'm wondering about Rand bursting out in anger against LTT.

 

All the people present in that room know what Semirhage said.

 

So the question is: who believes it? And of those who believe it, which think he's gone bonkers and which think it it's truly a part of the great weave?

[Kryshah]

One possibility - however remote - is that this is a manifistation of the merging of the two minds as predicted by Min:

 

"I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and...I don't know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies, and one doesn't." (Min to Rand; ACoS, Ch. 33).

 

 

And this is the twist needed to keep Rand alive at the end of the series.  The prophecies all state that the dragon reborn will die... not necessarily Rand specifically.  He'll fight TG and the voices will stop, hopefully with some closure with LTT.  Perhaps LTT was reborn with Rand, and will die before Rand.  Just a thought.

[vasu619]

One possibility - however remote - is that this is a manifistation of the merging of the two minds as predicted by Min:

 

"I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and...I don't know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies, and one doesn't." (Min to Rand; ACoS, Ch. 33).

 

 

And this is the twist needed to keep Rand alive at the end of the series.  The prophecies all state that the dragon reborn will die... not necessarily Rand specifically.  He'll fight TG and the voices will stop, hopefully with some closure with LTT.  Perhaps LTT was reborn with Rand, and will die before Rand.  Just a thought.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that that viewing refers to what happened between Rand and Moridin, and has nothing to do with LTT.

[Kryshah]

I'm pretty sure that that viewing refers to what happened between Rand and Moridin, and has nothing to do with LTT.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it refers to Moridin as well but it is still unconfirmed and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be LTT.

[Andrew the Great]

The only way I see that working is if LTT is actually a separate soul from Rand's, and the two just share a body. Which would be really weird. But, anyway, if that were the case, LTT would be the Dragon Reborn, and Rand is just.... well, Rand.

 

So if this were true, would Rand be able to channel after LTT died? Interesting question.

 

Personally, I think the Moridin thing is more likely, though.

[lordofsoup]

is anyone else seriously concerened about rand's inability to cause harm to women?  the only way i can see him getting over it is one of the female forsaken attacks min, avi, or elayne. 

 

but semi is forsaken.  rand could save thousands of lives with information she could give him

[Ashaman Kovan]

is anyone else seriously concerened about rand's inability to cause harm to women?  the only way i can see him getting over it is one of the female forsaken attacks min, avi, or elayne. 

 

but semi is forsaken.  rand could save thousands of lives with information she could give him

 

Some people can withstand torture you know. Semirhage seems like the type who probably can. Which ultimately makes it baseless. Physical pain isn't going to work on her anyways. He needs to get something else on her. I just don't really have any ideas as to what.

[Davian93]

is anyone else seriously concerened about rand's inability to cause harm to women?  the only way i can see him getting over it is one of the female forsaken attacks min, avi, or elayne. 

 

but semi is forsaken.  rand could save thousands of lives with information she could give him

 

Some people can withstand torture you know. Semirhage seems like the type who probably can. Which ultimately makes it baseless. Physical pain isn't going to work on her anyways. He needs to get something else on her. I just don't really have any ideas as to what.

 

Really? Why not?  Just because she likes to inflict pain, that doesn't mean she can take it.  She's probably never experienced physical pain in her life.  If anything, she's probably a big coward once you start beating her.

[lordofsoup]

is anyone else seriously concerened about rand's inability to cause harm to women?  the only way i can see him getting over it is one of the female forsaken attacks min, avi, or elayne. 

 

but semi is forsaken.  rand could save thousands of lives with information she could give him

 

Some people can withstand torture you know. Semirhage seems like the type who probably can. Which ultimately makes it baseless. Physical pain isn't going to work on her anyways. He needs to get something else on her. I just don't really have any ideas as to what.

 

Really? Why not?  Just because she likes to inflict pain, that doesn't mean she can take it.  She's probably never experienced physical pain in her life.  If anything, she's probably a big coward once you start beating her.

 

i just think rand needs to show that he is not scared to hurt women.  we know when she was captured before she scared her captors so much that they set her free, but what if the really tortured her?  also compulsion would work pretty good here

[Ashaman Kovan]

is anyone else seriously concerened about rand's inability to cause harm to women?  the only way i can see him getting over it is one of the female forsaken attacks min, avi, or elayne. 

 

but semi is forsaken.  rand could save thousands of lives with information she could give him

 

Some people can withstand torture you know. Semirhage seems like the type who probably can. Which ultimately makes it baseless. Physical pain isn't going to work on her anyways. He needs to get something else on her. I just don't really have any ideas as to what.

 

Really? Why not?  Just because she likes to inflict pain, that doesn't mean she can take it.  She's probably never experienced physical pain in her life.  If anything, she's probably a big coward once you start beating her.

 

That could very well be true. I just get the idea, for whatever reason, that physical pain isn't something that would bother her. She's made too much of a study of it and probably knows some mental technique to withstand it or something. Imo. I could be completely wrong though.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

 

 

Really? Why not?  Just because she likes to inflict pain, that doesn't mean she can take it.  She's probably never experienced physical pain in her life.  If anything, she's probably a big coward once you start beating her.

 

I doubt it. After all "Lews Therin tells Rand that Semirhage never sheds tears, she only causes them."

 

[Davian93]

 

 

 

Really? Why not?  Just because she likes to inflict pain, that doesn't mean she can take it.  She's probably never experienced physical pain in her life.  If anything, she's probably a big coward once you start beating her.

 

I doubt it. After all "Lews Therin tells Rand that Semirhage never sheds tears, she only causes them."

 

 

Has she ever been tortured before though?  Granted she was captured during the War of Power but no mention of torture was made.

[pxnsolid]

We know of 4 powerwrought swords and all but Tam's are definitely royal. Lan's, Laman's, and Kandor's sword of Kirukan. I always assumed Tam's sword was a gift from the King of Illian for his rescue by the companions during the whitecloak war.

 

Actually, Tams was probably royal, once upon a time, wheres as originally Lan's was not. I dont have a copy of it on hand, but at the begining of tGH when Lan and Rand are practicing atop the tower, Lan tells Rand about the power wrought blades, and how " one, once a simple soldiers sword, became more" refering to his sword, a simple soldier rose to become the king of Malkier, and his sword became something more, or the kings sword passed down. Or whatever the country was called originally. Lans sword is not marked with a heron, where as Tams was. It was probably made for someone of rank.Also Tam says something about how he spent to much on his sword, and names a price too, i cant recall it, so it was not a gift, but a sword he bought himself probably after he was named blademaster.

[Majsju]

Also Tam says something about how he spent to much on his sword, and names a price too, i cant recall it, so it was not a gift, but a sword he bought himself probably after he was named blademaster.

 

I think we can quite safely make the assumption that the price Tam talks about has nothing to do with money. Rather, what it cost him on a personal level. A price in blood and suffering rather than gold.

[pxnsolid]

no it is a price, its in tEotW, he names an actual price. Iirc it was when he shows it to Rand sitting at the table before the first trolloc attack. If it were a "price" then i wouldnt have specified. I dont have a copy to look at to quote though.

[Luckers]

no it is a price, its in tEotW, he names an actual price. Iirc it was when he shows it to Rand sitting at the table before the first trolloc attack. If it were a "price" then i wouldnt have specified. I dont have a copy to look at to quote though.

 

I think Majsju is right--his speech about pricing was more personal than literal.

 

"I got it a long time ago," Tam said, "a long way from here. And I paid entirely too much; two coppers is too much for one of these. Your mother didn't approve, but she was always wiser than I. I was young then, and it seemed worth the price at the time. She always wanted me to get rid of it, and more than once I've thought she was right, that I should just give it away.”

 

[tEotW-5-Winternight]

 

The inference is fairly clear--whatever monatary amount he was speaking of, the 'price' to him was personal.

[pxnsolid]

I agree with that concept, what I was getting at was the fact that he did actually buy it, it wasn't given to him. Not a comment so much on the "cost in blood" shall we say.

[pxnsolid]

oh and since i did read chapter one, i just want to point out the only thing that bothered me

 

"The workmen had sleeves rolled up, exposing curls of dark hair along burly arms"

 

while it is definatly BS writing this, thats the only part that stuck out to me , as not fitting. well written, everything ive been hoping for. :)

[Davian93]

I agree with that concept, what I was getting at was the fact that he did actually buy it, it wasn't given to him. Not a comment so much on the "cost in blood" shall we say.

 

Its clear he didn't actually pay "two coppers" for a heron mark blade.  It was likely the King of Illian's blade originally.  Considering there is strong evidence that Tam was instrumental in saving him during the Whitecloak War, he likely won in for his bravery then.

[Luckers]

I agree with that concept, what I was getting at was the fact that he did actually buy it, it wasn't given to him. Not a comment so much on the "cost in blood" shall we say.

 

Its clear he didn't actually pay "two coppers" for a heron mark blade.  It was likely the King of Illian's blade originally.  Considering there is strong evidence that Tam was instrumental in saving him during the Whitecloak War, he likely won in for his bravery then.

 

Trade the first 'was likely' with 'might have been', and the second with 'could have' and you'd have a viable theory.

 

 

[Davian93]

I agree with that concept, what I was getting at was the fact that he did actually buy it, it wasn't given to him. Not a comment so much on the "cost in blood" shall we say.

 

Its clear he didn't actually pay "two coppers" for a heron mark blade.  It was likely the King of Illian's blade originally.  Considering there is strong evidence that Tam was instrumental in saving him during the Whitecloak War, he likely won in for his bravery then.

 

Trade the first 'was likely' with 'might have been', and the second with 'could have' and you'd have a viable theory.

 

 

 

Fair enough...I'd put it at 40-50% chance as opposed to other things that I'd put at 80% chance.  Its pretty heavily inferred that he was a big fish in the Whitecloak war (the current 1st Captain of the Companions remembers him and he rose to 2nd Captain which is a considerable feat for a foreign commoner...even in an organization that welcomes foreigners to some extent.)  Add that in with the whole Pedron Niall thought train of almost capturing the King of Illian only to be foiled by the Companions and you have a neat little circumstantial theory...especially when you consider that a he somehow has a power wrought Heron blade (something considered ridiculously rare and something we've only seen other Kings have so far).

[Luckers]

I agree with that concept, what I was getting at was the fact that he did actually buy it, it wasn't given to him. Not a comment so much on the "cost in blood" shall we say.

 

Its clear he didn't actually pay "two coppers" for a heron mark blade.  It was likely the King of Illian's blade originally.  Considering there is strong evidence that Tam was instrumental in saving him during the Whitecloak War, he likely won in for his bravery then.

 

Trade the first 'was likely' with 'might have been', and the second with 'could have' and you'd have a viable theory.

 

 

 

Fair enough...I'd put it at 40-50% chance as opposed to other things that I'd put at 80% chance.  Its pretty heavily inferred that he was a big fish in the Whitecloak war (the current 1st Captain of the Companions remembers him and he rose to 2nd Captain which is a considerable feat for a foreign commoner...even in an organization that welcomes foreigners to some extent.)  Add that in with the whole Pedron Niall thought train of almost capturing the King of Illian only to be foiled by the Companions and you have a neat little circumstantial theory...especially when you consider that a he somehow has a power wrought Heron blade (something considered ridiculously rare and something we've only seen other Kings have so far).

 

The wording, however, suggests he was the active member in attaining the sword. "Your mother didn't approve, but she was always wiser than I. I was young then, and it seemed worth the price at the time. "

 

Whatever the price was, the present tense is used--it 'seemed worth the price at the time', not 'I later regretted the price'.

 

 

Also, 'rediculously rare'? The very first explanation we have of Power Wrought swords included comments about people having them and not knowing what they are.

 

"With the One Power, Aes Sedai drew iron and other metals from the earth, smelted them, formed and wrought them. All with the Power. Swords, and other weapons, too. Many that survived the Breaking of the World were destroyed by men who feared and hated Aes Sedai work, and others have vanished with the years. Few remain, and few men truly know what they are. There have been legends of them, swollen tales of swords that seemed to have a power of their own. You've heard the gleemen's tales. The reality is enough. Blades that will not shatter or break, and never lose their edge. I've seen men sharpening them-playing at sharpening, as it were-but only because they could not believe a sword did not need it after use. All they ever did was wear away their oilstones

 

[tGH-1-The Flame of Tar Valon]

 

That shows directly that these blades are in circulation amongst the ignorent. So no, it's not something only kings have...

[Davian93]

That shows directly that these blades are in circulation amongst the ignorent. So no' date=' it's not something only kings have...[/quote']

 

You misunderstood me.  I stated that the only other heron-mark OP blades we have seen so far have been in the possession of high nobility/kings.  Laman's blade (king), Turak's blade (possibly OP wrought and in the hands of a High Noble). No indication of Toram's blade being OP wrought but still a high noble.  No indication of Eamon's blade/Galad's blade...

 

I agree that its not a definite but the odds are in favor of it.  Wasn't the Aiel War AFTER the Whitecloak wars?  Thus the price might have seemed worth it at first and then not worth it after 2 years of brutal warfare against the Aiel ending in the Blood Snow.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.

 

A quote from TGH Cycle of the Dragon...i think this confirms that Rand's sword is indeed Justice.It could be metaphorical but its unlikely.I know that the sword has been confirmed as Justice by an unknown source but just thought this would be convincing enough for the non-believers

[Aran Corval Alandar]

I have read it of course and I was quite pleased honestly. I could tell that Brandon was involved in the writing of this chapter but, like so many others let me say it was definately not a bad thing. It had the right "Wheel of Time feel" if you will but, some of the language was different. Having read all of Brandon's work in the last two years or so I know his style better than some. Let me just get on board in saying it was very nice to get to hear from Rand in chapter one...it seems like forever since he was the focal point. He is getting worse to be sure, shouting at someone who no one else sees is never a good sign  :-\

 

I think there is the chance that this sword is Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice as well. It would explain why it was Rand's memory and not LTT since Rand would have seen the sword when he met Hawkwing. I am really looking forward to a lot of things being revealed to us. October 27th can't come soon enough for me!!

 

Aran