Flying Aes Sedai

[Thor]

hello, i believe i can fly.

 

kkthxbai.

[Luckers]

You can't fly, but your hammer can. And really, that's all that matters.

 

[Gentled Ben]

It's hammer time, Thor.  :)

[Majsju]

It is Back on Topic time, kids. ;)

[Luckers]

Who you calling a kid... oh wait, me. Coz your old.

 

Sorry. I'm a bad mod. I'll go sit in the corner now.

[Builder]

In ur EMO CORNER!!

 

I wonder if Luckers is a member in that website Emo corner.com?...

[Mandragoran]

I wonder if the solution isn't as simple as the one used in Skimming to Travel. Aes Sedai can't lift themselves with the power but they can create bridges out of air to support their weight.

 

When Rand first attempted Skimming, he created a series of steps and ran across them. Then he noticed Asmodean atop a single platform that was moving by itself before duplicating it.

 

So why can't you do the same to fly, create a platform to support your weight and then lift the platform to levitate yourself.

 

 

[Gentled Ben]

For the same reason that you can't stand on a stool and then lift the stool in order to levitate yourself. When he Skims, he steps into some other part of the Pattern, or perhaps between the warp and woof of the Pattern, into some kind of other-space. It is not flying through the air, whether it's done with steps or a platform.

[Mandragoran]

For the same reason that you can't stand on a stool and then lift the stool in order to levitate yourself.

 

I saw it more like attaching rockets to a chair (like a fighter jet's ejection seat) to give you a boost. I don't see why a platform can't be affected simply because the channeler is standing on it. Constructs of the power can be moved at will, take for example swords of air or fire.

[Gentled Ben]

I dunno...what you're suggesting might be possible if other weaves can serve as a propellant (like rocket engines), but I imagine that steering would be troublesome and the entire exercise wouldn't really be worth it considering how much easier it is to walk, or ride a jo car, or Skim, or Travel, or whatever. If sho wings used the OP in some manner, then there might be a way to fly with the OP, but it would probably be called "flying in a sho wing," just like modern man flies in an airplane. To do the Superman thing though, no.

[Cillian]

For the same reason that you can't stand on a stool and then lift the stool in order to levitate yourself. When he Skims, he steps into some other part of the Pattern, or perhaps between the warp and woof of the Pattern, into some kind of other-space. It is not flying through the air, whether it's done with steps or a platform.

 

Outside the Pattern, if I remember correctly.

 

 

I saw it more like attaching rockets to a chair...

 

.... hmmmm... *strokes chin (my chin, not yours)*...

 

.... I'm going out to the shed for a while...

 

 

 

Oh, on a totally unrelated subject, does anybody have a couple of rockets they could loan me?

[Mr Ares]

For the same reason that you can't stand on a stool and then lift the stool in order to levitate yourself.

I saw it more like attaching rockets to a chair (like a fighter jet's ejection seat) to give you a boost. I don't see why a platform can't be affected simply because the channeler is standing on it. Constructs of the power can be moved at will, take for example swords of air or fire.

And if you were able to move a sword of metal around at will, that still wouldn't make you able to stand on a stool and lift it to levitate yourself. Gravity doesn't stop working.

 

I saw it more like attaching rockets to a chair...

.... hmmmm... *strokes chin (my chin, not yours)*...

 

.... I'm going out to the shed for a while...

 

Oh, on a totally unrelated subject, does anybody have a couple of rockets they could loan me?

Firstly, I want you to bear in mind the potentially fatal consequences of trying this. Secondly, I want you to do it anyway. Here you go, play nice *Hands Cillian a couple of rockets*

[Gracel]

No no, its safe . . . perfectly safe  . . . see, people do it all the time:

 

 

My favorite part is the fuel in hot water bottles zipped into his suit.

[The Doctor]

That's actually pretty cool.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to fly using the OP and applying certain concepts of aerodynamics to it's use.  For instance using flows of air or some other combination of flows to create large wings like a bat's or pterodactyl's. Or possibly a combination of wings and an hot air chamber. I see the impracticality of it to use as a method of long distance traveling, when Traveling and Skimming are both more efficient, but it could have applications in searching and scouting.

[Mandragoran]

For the same reason that you can't stand on a stool and then lift the stool in order to levitate yourself.

I saw it more like attaching rockets to a chair (like a fighter jet's ejection seat) to give you a boost. I don't see why a platform can't be affected simply because the channeler is standing on it. Constructs of the power can be moved at will, take for example swords of air or fire.

And if you were able to move a sword of metal around at will, that still wouldn't make you able to stand on a stool and lift it to levitate yourself. Gravity doesn't stop working.

Is gravity the determining factor here? The one power can easily defy gravity when it comes to other things. It's when it comes to the one doing the channeling that there are problems. So is gravity really the issue? Perhaps the weaves cannot affect the body they are spun from, unable to penetrate the glow of Saidar. We certainly see that limitation apply to Healing.

 

Anyway with leverage and the right application of force, defying gravity is possible. With a pulley system & platform, a person can pull themselves out of a well or shaft.

 

 

[Gentled Ben]

For the same reason that you can't stand on a stool and then lift the stool in order to levitate yourself.

I saw it more like attaching rockets to a chair (like a fighter jet's ejection seat) to give you a boost. I don't see why a platform can't be affected simply because the channeler is standing on it. Constructs of the power can be moved at will, take for example swords of air or fire.

And if you were able to move a sword of metal around at will, that still wouldn't make you able to stand on a stool and lift it to levitate yourself. Gravity doesn't stop working.

Is gravity the determining factor here? The one power can easily defy gravity when it comes to other things. It's when it comes to the one doing the channeling that there are problems. So is gravity really the issue? Perhaps the weaves cannot affect the body they are spun from, unable to penetrate the glow of Saidar. We certainly see that limitation apply to Healing.

 

Anyway with leverage and the right application of force, defying gravity is possible. With a pulley system & platform, a person can pull themselves out of a well or shaft.

 

 

How does that defy gravity? The fact that they have to use a pulley system rather than jumping 50 feet into the air indicates that gravity is working just fine.

[Bob T Dwarf]

A pulley and rope system would require a skyhook, and even with OP there's still nothing to anchor that to.  Assuming you found a projecting overhang, the most you'd achieve is to hang in midair not fly.

 

If anyone in Randland understood the principles, it might be possible to fashion a parasail or hang-glider out of "Air".  At most that's just gliding, not really flying.  You'd only stay aloft as long as you had thermals to support you.

 

Since Rand was able to fashion a stairway out of "Air" to make the ascent from the longboat to the deck of the Seafolk ship, it might be possible to make stilts out of "Air."  But that's just standing or walking about on stilts, not flying either.

[Mandragoran]

How does that defy gravity? The fact that they have to use a pulley system rather than jumping 50 feet into the air indicates that gravity is working just fine.

Work against it then. And a pulley system is just an example to prove it can be done. Rocket propulsion is still a viable option. The OP can produce explosive forces through Fire and direct propulsion with Air as well as defensive weaves to cocoon the flyer if necessary or create enough of a barrier to have those forces act against it. Rand was thrust backwards by an attack from the Asha'man when he enveloped himself in a weave as a defense.

 

If anyone in Randland understood the principles, it might be possible to fashion a parasail or hang-glider out of "Air".  At most that's just gliding, not really flying.  You'd only stay aloft as long as you had thermals to support you.

If they understood the principles they could make those thermals.

 

Since Rand was able to fashion a stairway out of "Air" to make the ascent from the longboat to the deck of the Seafolk ship, it might be possible to make stilts out of "Air."  But that's just standing or walking about on stilts, not flying either.

He was limited in how large he could make that bridge, so it's not a solution.

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

How does that defy gravity? The fact that they have to use a pulley system rather than jumping 50 feet into the air indicates that gravity is working just fine.

Work against it then. And a pulley system is just an example to prove it can be done. Rocket propulsion is still a viable option. The OP can produce explosive forces through Fire and direct propulsion with Air as well as defensive weaves to cocoon the flyer if necessary or create enough of a barrier to have those forces act against it. Rand was thrust backwards by an attack from the Asha'man when he enveloped himself in a weave to defend himself.

 

If anyone in Randland understood the principles, it might be possible to fashion a parasail or hang-glider out of "Air".  At most that's just gliding, not really flying.  You'd only stay aloft as long as you had thermals to support you.

If they understood the principles they could make those thermals.

 

 

In both those cases, the weaver would be required to juggle a large number of weaves at once.  Egwene is the only one we've seen even attempt that, and those were just dancing bits of flame.  Lotta complexity in fashioning a protective shell, propulsion, and guidance yet too.  Same with a hang-glider, support for the occupant, control system, plus  thermals.

 

I'd say possible in theory and impossible in practice because nobody has the necessary facility to juggle enough weaves at once to keep the whole lashup together and functioning.

 

 

[Yllek]

Why not a flying carpet, or something like that?  If gravity is the issue, the carpet could be reinforced and stiffened and the Aes Sedai could use air to push from behind at an angle while lifting and continue the pushing flows from whichever side was needful to go in whatever direction they wanted, using aerodyamic principles to cut through the air with the stiffened carpet.  Sure, it would be dangerous as you learned to control the 'float', but it would be the same principle as, say, a handglider or an ultralight. 

 

Things are only impossible until the first person finds away around what everyone knows to be true. 

[JenLenaMom]

Why not a flying carpet, or something like that?  If gravity is the issue, the carpet could be reinforced and stiffened and the Aes Sedai could use air to push from behind at an angle while lifting and continue the pushing flows from whichever side was needful to go in whatever direction they wanted, using aerodyamic principles to cut through the air with the stiffened carpet.  Sure, it would be dangerous as you learned to control the 'float', but it would be the same principle as, say, a handglider or an ultralight. 

 

Things are only impossible until the first person finds away around what everyone knows to be true. 

 

It's the same principle as lifting yourself. Like has been said here MULTIPLE TIMES stand on chair, now reach down and pick it up. Using the power doesn't change the laws of physics.

[Mandragoran]

 

In both those cases, the weaver would be required to juggle a large number of weaves at once.  Egwene is the only one we've seen even attempt that, and those were just dancing bits of flame.  Lotta complexity in fashioning a protective shell, propulsion, and guidance yet too.  Same with a hang-glider, supoort for the occupant, control system, and thermals.

 

I'd say possible in theory and impossible in practice because nobody has the necessary facility to juggle enough weaves at once to keep the whole lashup together and functioning.

Wouldn't the number of weaves woven at once depend on the strength of the individual and their affinity for the powers they weave. There are a few women stronger in the power than Egwene. Nynaeve can use a large number of weaves in healing, or at least Elayne can barely follow what she does. Elayne herself is adept at weaving Air with her windfinder training and has used it to sail large vessels. Those weaves wouldn't require constant manipulation and some could be tied.

 

 

[JenLenaMom]

How can you tie off a thread that you're using to propel yourself? What would you tie it to? The effects of the OP get less noticable the further from the channeler you get.

[Mandragoran]

How can you tie off a thread that you're using to propel yourself? What would you tie it to? The effects of the OP get less noticable the further from the channeler you get.

The structural weaves Bob mentioned could be tied to you, the ones to protect or support you. Why would you get away from it? You can create disguises of the power around yourself. And it's not like Liandrin walked away from the shield Moghedien tied around her.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

Is gravity the determining factor here?

Yes.

The one power can easily defy gravity when it comes to other things.

An aeroplane can defy gravity. Gravity doesn't stop working, you just have more thrust pushing you up than there is gravity pulling you down. When standing on a platform of air and lifting it, what provides the thrust? What is holding you off the ground?

So is gravity really the issue?

Yes.

 

Anyway with leverage and the right application of force, defying gravity is possible.

But it doesn't stop working. You just overpower it temporarily. Where is the leverage in the platform you are standing on that you are simultaneously off the ground? And if you are using leverage, is it really flight? No more so than the man with the pulleys and platform is flying when he pulls himself out the well.

 

Why not a flying carpet, or something like that?

Why not build a plane and use the Power to spin the propeller, giving you powered (Powered?) flight? Simple, safe, easy, not suicidally dangerous.

 

Things are only impossible until the first person finds away around what everyone knows to be true.

No. Things are impossible because they cannot be done. If someone figures out how to do something, it is not impossible. You cannot figure out how to do the impossible, the impossible, by definition, cannot be done. You can do something believed impossible, but that is not the same thing at all.