Characters we're just not sure about

[42Bonzo88]

    Okay, bear with me but this has been on my mind for some time. There are alot of characters that we know are definetly good (Rand, Mat, Egwene, etc.) that even if they do some things that are questionable or wrong, we know thier hearts are in the right place. Then there are alot of characters that are definetly bad (Forsaken, Padan Fain, Black Ajah etc.) again that might do some things good, but its to bring their plans for evil into fruition (Sp?).

 

      Now, lets talk about the ones that we are just not sure about. Definetly Verin IMO tops this list, but there are many. We have had many questions about whether they are Forsaken in disguise or whether they are Darkfriends or not.

 

      The first thing is I want you to help me make the list of these iffy characters. Then my question is The Dark One has his Forsaken that can change into people (Halima, Dashiva etc.) to get close to the main characters in the effort to spoil thier plans or to kill them outright. He also has darkfriends placed in various places to do the same thing. Now could it be possible that the Creator has given us these 'iffy' characters to outplace the Dark One's. There has been many thoughts that either the Creator made this place and left or made the Wheel to balance out any problems that may occur (Taver'en).

 

      So, help me make my list of "iffies" and if you want to put your opinion on if they may have been sent by the Creator or not is up to you.

 

This is who I have so far:

Verin

Noal

Cadsuane

Davram Bashere

Alanna Sedai

 

     

[Shard]

I'm not iffy about any of those characters. Especially not Cadsuane, she's clearly on the Light side.

[Zagorac]

If Cadsuan was on the evil side the good guys wouldn't have a chance! ;D I personally don't know about Verin! I'm not saying she is a darkfriend,which she might be, but she hiding something big! 

[VinedC]

Of those listed, the only one I'm unsure about is Noal. The rest seem to be on the level to me.

 

Im wondering if there isn't an Aiel we need to be concerned about. There has been suspiciously little Aiel darkfriend activity since Matt killed his gf.

[Vemynal]

Davram Bashere is the only one im unsure of

[Muad Cheade]

This is who I have so far:

Verin

Noal

Cadsuane

Davram Bashere

Alanna Sedai

 

Verin's not a Darkfriend because she was ready to kill Cadsuane because she thought she might hurt Rand. Also, she defended Rand against Graendal during the cleansing of saidin.

 

It's fairly obvious and heavily implied that Noal is Jain Farstrider so he's not a Darkfriend.

 

Cadsuane's POV shows that she's on Rand's side. She's made a water oath with Sorilea to teach Rand "laughters and tears." She also defended Rand during the cleansing of saidin. If she were a Darkfriend she would've attacked.

 

Davram Bashere is not a Darkfriend because he still has the seal to the Dark One's prison (his wife was almost killed because the Shadow tried to find it). Also, he's fought on Rand's side numerously and has had countless opportunities to kill Rand.

 

Alanna's not a Darkfriend simply because Min had a viewing that she was securely in Rand's palm and that he could trust her completely.

[Thorum]

Alanna's not a Darkfriend simply because Min had a viewing that she was securely in Rand's palm and that he could trust her completely.

 

And because she voluntarily opened her mind to the Dragon Reborn.

[albino_dog]

There are some people who consider Taim and his merry bunch iffy.

 

I am not sure about Noal, that's for sure.

 

Bashere seems okay atm, but I'm not a hundred percent about him either. Verin's odd too.

[mmeeshal]

I'll have to go through the books again, and see what I think, but really quick, something that came to mind while I was reading what you guys have said:

 

Verin's not a Darkfriend because she was ready to kill Cadsuane because she thought she might hurt Rand. Also, she defended Rand against Graendal during the cleansing of saidin.

...

[Cadsuane] also defended Rand during the cleansing of saidin. If she were a Darkfriend she would've attacked.

 

Not that I disagree with anyone about Verin or Cadsuane (I'm positive they're both on the Light side, even though they are both mysterious in their ways), but: Just because they defended Rand during the cleansing of saidin, and don't want him hurt, it doesn't mean that they are good, necessarily.

 

I don't remember her name at the moment, but one of the Tower Aes Sedai swore to help Rand because she wanted him to live till the Last Battle so the Dark One could defeat him.  She's Black Ajah, but all her actions will look to an outsider like someone devoted entirely to the Dragon Reborn.

 

So, to sum up my point, I think that Verin and Cadsuane are good (especially from their POVs :)), but you can't take anyone's actions at face value.  In the WoT, as I'm sure we've all learned, there are levels and levels and levels to everything, that don't always show up at first glance.  :)

 

Anyway, that's all for right now...

[mb]

This page lists people who are on the Light side::

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.5_blackornot/1.5.7_not-df.html

A number have passages next to their name.  Cadsuane is one mentioned there.

 

This page lists Darkfriends::

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.5_blackornot/1.5.8_is-df.html

 

Verin & Alanna, they seem to be on the Light side.  Verin because of a number of her POVs; Alanna because of the Viewing Min had just before going on the Sea Folk ship.

Noal & Davram, both seem loyal to the Light side.  If they were darkfriends, they would have done harm long before now.

 

Taim, his alliance seems uncertain to me.  Pretty much all of his actions could point either way.

 

[Zaladane]

Olver.  Yup.  I'm pretty sure he's just who he is supposed to be.  But when he first came into it I thought it was pretty good timing to slip a darkfriend beside Matt.  I guess kids could be darkfriends too.  I just thought it would be pretty cool if it turned out that way - it would definitely send everyone for a loop. 

 

I think Verin and Cadsuane are on Rands side.  I've always thought there was something fishy about Noal but time well tell on that one.

 

Davram is good I think as well as Alanna.

 

Logain is a bit iffy too - I think he's on Rands side but you never know.  I don't think he's in the dark ones camp, I just think he's waiting to seize some power after everythings done.

 

I've always felt Lelaine was a bit iffy too.

 

And I've been wondering if we will see any darkfriend seafolk, as far as I know not a single one has been introduced as evil, just arrogantly annoying so far.

 

 

 

 

[Majsju]

I don't remember her name at the moment, but one of the Tower Aes Sedai swore to help Rand because she wanted him to live till the Last Battle so the Dark One could defeat him.  She's Black Ajah, but all her actions will look to an outsider like someone devoted entirely to the Dragon Reborn.

 

 

 

Elza. Her behaviour is very much a result of Verin using her homemade "Compulsion" on her. Ie, she is not a very good representative for the shadow.

[gunslingerborn]

The only question I ever had was Verin. Why does she use Compulsion at the begining of Book 8? That seems to be darkfriendish. Agree with reasoning about her defense of Rand in book 9. Unless she is planning to help capture him to turn him to the Shadow the way that we know has happened in ages past via Sammael's knowledge of Ishamael.

[Luzburg]

The only question I ever had was Verin. Why does she use Compulsion at the begining of Book 8? That seems to be darkfriendish. Agree with reasoning about her defense of Rand in book 9. Unless she is planning to help capture him to turn him to the Shadow the way that we know has happened in ages past via Sammael's knowledge of Ishamael.

 

I'm pretty sure everybody can agree that she is fanatical about protecting Rand, whether she is like Elza is another matter.

[Thorum]

This page lists people who are on the Light side::

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.5_blackornot/1.5.7_not-df.html

A number have passages next to their name.  Cadsuane is one mentioned there.

 

This page lists Darkfriends::

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.5_blackornot/1.5.8_is-df.html

 

These links give overall fan opinions. Those have been proofed wrong in the past (Taimandred, anyone?)

[Majsju]

[...]help capture him to turn him to the Shadow the way that we know has happened in ages past via Sammael's knowledge of Ishamael.

 

Uhm, say what now?

[Luckers]

Indeed, Semirhage discovered the trick of turning people. Ishamael and Sammael had nothing to do with it.

[Paradox]

Weiramon and Lelaine comes to mind.

[Paradox]

Weiramon couldn't be forcibly turned, unless he is secretly a channeler, which seems .. well ... not true.  I do think he is a Darkfriend, just not one who was forced.

 

I'm not sure if the first part is directed at me or just a general statement. But just to clarify, Weiramon and Lelaine comes to mind as people a bit iffy. I don't think any of them was forcefully turned, especially not Weiramon :)   

[Shard]

I think Wieramon is one of those that isn't on Rand's side and yet not a DF.

[water_seeker]

And I've been wondering if we will see any darkfriend seafolk, as far as I know not a single one has been introduced as evil, just arrogantly annoying so far.

 

The man who calls himself Bors saw at least one Seafolk person at the DF social in tGH prologue.

[Shard]

I might agree except for the interrupted conversation with Gedwyn in TPoD ch 24.

 

I presumed he was refering to the Dragon. Personally I feel that if he was a DF he steps his toe a little too out of line, I mean that if he wanted to keep his cover and not get killed by a raging Dragon he's doing a poor job of it since I think Wieramon is at the top of the list of people who piss Rand off daily.

[Muad Cheade]

I might agree except for the interrupted conversation with Gedwyn in TPoD ch 24.

 

I presumed he was refering to the Dragon. Personally I feel that if he was a DF he steps his toe a little too out of line, I mean that if he wanted to keep his cover and not get killed by a raging Dragon he's doing a poor job of it since I think Wieramon is at the top of the list of people who piss Rand off daily.

 

I think he was arguing with Gedwyn about doing something he felt Rand would not approve of. The part of the conversation we heard was "I don't care who you are. I won't take more risk without a command direct from the lips of—." It could be anyone though.

 

I don't think Weiramon is a DF. I think he's simply one of the fools/nobles Rand hates because they put personal glory and station ahead of Tarmon Gai'don.

[Shard]

It IS sort of how Wieramon deals with Rand's orders though isn't it? He questions orders that aren't strait from Rand's mouth. I just think a DF, especially a high ranking one in Rand's army, would find ways to be more subplaint to Rand and making sure his head stays on his shoulders. The way he is going now Rand may take his head just for him breathing wrong.

[Elgee]

It's a perfect cover. Weiramon is SO stupid, supposedly, that he can get away with almost any sabotaging of Rand's plans - Rand will just put it down to his stupidity and incompetence.