Nicola's CoT Foretelling/Foretellings about Rand

[dilbert719]

There is a difference between symbolic representation (such as you pointed out) and an inaccurate description (like using the word "impossible" to describe something that can and will happen).  But if you can't see the difference, I can't help you.

 

There is also a difference between a word's connotation and its denotation. Or, if you prefer, between its definition and its colloquial use. If I'm playing Final Fantasy VII, get frustrated, and say "It's impossible to beat Ruby Weapon!" that doesn't mean it's actually impossible; it means that I feel, at the time, like I will never have the capacity to do it. Just because I do it later doesn't mean I was describing it inaccurately, because at no point was I making a statement of literal fact. I was expressing an emotional reaction.

 

In this instance, saying that "The Dragon will do 9 impossible things" would be an indication that the 9 things are believed to be impossible. Clearly, what is done is retroactively proven possible, but it is not necessary for them to be known as possible prior to their doing. It doesn't make the description inaccurate, it makes it colloquial, using the connotation "something that, at the time the speaker states it, they do not believe someone can do."

[luftstark]

i'm just saying that if the world "impossible" was said in a true foretell, it could mean "considered impossible". I know it's not the case, since the foretell wording is unknow to us, but if you insist that the world "impossible" is to be taken literaly every time... well.. then i can't help you.

[mb]

Since the speaker seems to be bound to the First Oath, she believes 9 things were Foretold.

 

mb, Jordan did say that an Aes Sedai bound to the Oaths could use sarcasm.

Sarcasm seems to not have been used in this case.

In other cases, sarcasm was whole sentences; and the other parts of the sentence seem not to be sarcastic, also the rest of the speech.

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

What Tiana has heard/learned/surmised/whatever about those fortellings may not even be accurate.  Could be wildly overblown.  Tiana is running through a laundry list of her gripes with Nicola and Nicola's, "visions that might be Tarmon Gai'don or a bilious stomach..."  There's nothing literal meant by, "the Dragon Reborn doing nine impossible things."  Tiana quite obviously believes that Nicola is lying about her ability to Foretell, and by extension her supposed Foretellings are also lies.

[Chernabog]

Glad to see my reasoning over *why* it's doubtful Rand will fulfill these "foretellings" was overlooked  ::) Like I said, there's just three volumes left and it's doubtful he's going to be able to do 9 things in three volumes WHILE keeping a lot of screen time for the rest of the plots that need to be finished off and forwarded.

 

Apparently that logic doesn't count and we must continue to argue over what Tiana said and how to interpret it even though that's been done to death ::) Why is it so hard to believe that Rand won't be doing these things and that it's nothing more than Nicola wanting attention and thus making up stories? No wait that can't be a logical reason either because Tiana said something that we must nitpick apart. I'm going to refrain from rolling the eyes again, they might just get stuck in mid roll.  :P

 

Also RAW, I never said myself Rand did impossible things, I was pointing out someone else had said that here and that those "impossible" things were achieved pre-Nicola's "Foretelling" and thusly don't count aside from the fact they aren't impossible or else he wouldn't have done them.

[a5m]

A short review:

 

Tiana didn't tell us about Nicola, Janya did.

 

I'm tired of RAW's comments about impossible. Everything is impossible until it's done. Impossible in this context is to the Aes Sedai (Janya and others) talking about it. Please remember that the characters talked about Callandor and the Stone. The Stone could not fall until after Callandor was taken yet it was in the Heart of the Stone. I believe Mat said that it's impossible. Thom said that if it were easy, then it would have happened long ago. (That was definitely not one of the nine since it was way before we met Nicola.)

 

I'm reasonably sure that sarcasm wasn't being used by Janya. More like exasperation about Nicola continuing to ask to go faster.

 

I'm still reasonably sure that cleaning Saidin was one of the impossible things. Please remember that the two of them repeat the fore tellings over and over so that the Aes Sedai are tired of hearing them. Nicola had plenty of time to foretell that event and most Aes Sedai don't even know it's happened.

 

 

[water_seeker]

Everything is impossible until it's done.

 

What?  If it ends up being done, it wasn't impossible, it just wasn't done.

[Chernabog]

Cleansing Saidin doesn't count, chronologically it takes place *before* the whole discussion in the books about Nicola and her various attempts at getting further ahead etc. You can't foretell what's already happened.  ::)

[a5m]

We don't know when Nicola started and it is obvious that she's had a while. Her first that we know of is well before Saidin was cleaned so that event very well could have happened after she did.

 

The foretellings are repeated by Areina and it's obvious that she is no longer believed. So it leads to the thinking that these things must be impossible.

 

I still contend that RJ was fore shadowing here. The questions for me is what was being foreshadowed rather than the specifics of what Janya or Nicola said.

[Mr Ares]

Glad to see my reasoning over *why* it's doubtful Rand will fulfill these "foretellings" was overlooked  ::) Like I said, there's just three volumes left and it's doubtful he's going to be able to do 9 things in three volumes WHILE keeping a lot of screen time for the rest of the plots that need to be finished off and forwarded.

No-one says all these things have to take a long time or take place on screen, or by the end of the series. Therefore this argument is senseless.

 

Apparently that logic doesn't count

You're damn right it doesn't.

Why is it so hard to believe that Rand won't be doing these things and that it's nothing more than Nicola wanting attention and thus making up stories?

A lot of people do. They just believe it for a good reason - such as impossible not being a part of the Foretelling - as opposed to a bad one like yours.

[mb]

'nine impossible things', that phrase to me is not meaningless.  And saying that it is meaningless, that to me is a cop-out.  Even though we do not have the actual words of the Foretelling/Foretellings.

 

Since the speaker seems to be bound to the First Oath, her interpretation would be better than one from an second-hand person that is not bound.

Until we see the actual Foretelling/Foretellings, 9 would be closer to the actual number than anything other number.

 

[Mr Ares]

And saying that it is meaningless, that to me is a cop-out. Even though we do not have the actual words of the Foretelling/Foretellings.

That's why it is meaningless. We don't even know if there were any actual Foretellings.

[Majsju]

Since the speaker seems to be bound to the First Oath, her interpretation would be better than one from an second-hand person that is not bound.

 

The oath does not work that way.

[mb]

And saying that it is meaningless, that to me is a cop-out. Even though we do not have the actual words of the Foretelling/Foretellings.

That's why it is meaningless. We don't even know if there were any actual Foretellings.

"an Amyrlin imprisoned", that seems to be a Foretelling.

"battles with the Seanchan or the Ashaman", either or both might also be a Foretelling; the Seanchan & Perrin fought the Shaido (which was after the chapter and might also be chronologically after), the Ashaman might soon fight Graendal and/or Logain & Taim might soon fight each other.

 

[mb]

"an Amyrlin imprisoned", that seems to be a Foretelling.

 

A Foretelling that has already been fulfilled, and is not related to the phrase "nine impossible things".

 

"battles with the Seanchan or the Ashaman", either or both might also be a Foretelling

 

Still unrelated to "nine possible things".

My point was that if those are Foretellings, then 'nine possible things' might also be since it is in the same sentence; not to tell that they were related.

 

[mb]

I still think the phrase is not meaningless and also a cop-out to say so.

 

'nine' can be considered specific information since it tells how many things would happen.

'impossible' can also be considered specific information since the speaker believes that the things could not be done.

 

 

Those who do not want to continue this discussion, they may either unsubscribe from this thread or report this thread to a moderator.

 

[mb]

Nicola might not have said '9', but the total probably is 9.

Nicola might not have said 'impossible' either, yet the things probably could be considered impossible.

 

Instead of debating the validity of the phrase, I would prefer to discuss what Nicola might have Foretold.  Those who do not want to do this, it would be best for them to no longer comment in this thread.

 

My previous guesses:

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Do actual flying with the One Power

-Convert darkfriends and/or Forsaken to the Light

-Cleanse other Taint-made things

-Walk around invisible

-Channel through a stedding

-Giving a non-channeler the ability to channel

-Destroy or kill the Dark One

 

The things probably include things that help the Light side.

The things from my previous guesses that might fit:

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Convert darkfriends and/or Forsaken to the Light

-Cleanse other Taint-made things

 

 

Edit: I edited the thread title again.

 

[Kaznen]

Instead of debating the validity of the phrase, I would prefer to discuss what Nicola might have Foretold.

 

But without a valid phrase, there is no basis for speculation.  All we are left with the speculate is this; "the Dragon Reborn doing ... things".

 

Well, we all know the Dragon Reborn is going to do things.

 

If this thread has simply become a place for speculation on what Rand might do, then there is no need to bring Nicola into it at all.

ROFLMAO

[kamros]

Ok i will humor MB since i believe that it was a foretelling, or maybe he just pointing out the obvious(that the dragon reborn, a person of prophecies and all of that, will do somethings that seem impossible to anyone who is not the dragon reborn.)

 

my guess:

Rand will Seal the Dark one in his prison for the rest of time, or maybe destroy the Dark one so that there is a continuous Age of Peace were the Traveling  People find the song.

 

that would be truly impossible, but i think it could be a good ending.(not that i think this will happen, a continuous age of peace would mean no more turning of the wheel? but as you know there is no beginning or ending to the turning of the wheel of time... but if it does stop, it would be one of those impossible things right?)

/rambleoff ps: dont flame me too hard =)

[zanotam]

Nothing has been able to so much as phase the thread let alone harm it ... This leaves only one option .... This thread must be burned with fire! (Burning things on the internet with fire is impossible! Maybe Rand will give me a hand here!)

[water_seeker]

Maybe Rand will give me a hand here

 

He's only got one left to give... :-\

[fikkie77]

Ok i will humor MB since i believe that it was a foretelling, or maybe he just pointing out the obvious(that the dragon reborn, a person of prophecies and all of that, will do somethings that seem impossible to anyone who is not the dragon reborn.)

 

my guess:

Rand will Seal the Dark one in his prison for the rest of time, or maybe destroy the Dark one so that there is a continuous Age of Peace were the Traveling  People find the song.

 

that would be truly impossible, but i think it could be a good ending.(not that i think this will happen, a continuous age of peace would mean no more turning of the wheel? but as you know there is no beginning or ending to the turning of the wheel of time... but if it does stop, it would be one of those impossible things right?)

/rambleoff ps: dont flame me too hard =)

The DO won't be destroyed or locked away permanently by Rhand. The reason is in Chapter 1 of all the books: the third age is an age long gone and an age yet to come. This means that in the future the bore will be drilled and sealed by Lews Therin Telamon, starting yet another third age, which will end with everything that's been keeping us busy the last couple of years.

 

About the impossible things: he did already some impossible things, like cleansing Saidin and surviving a cut from the ruby dagger (not on his own accord though). What's more? I really don't know. Some of the things mentioned might be true though.

[mb]

About the impossible things: he did already some impossible things, like cleansing Saidin and surviving a cut from the ruby dagger (not on his own accord though).

It seems certain that the ruby dagger incident came before the Foretelling/Foretellings.

Cleansing saidin, slight chance Nicola Foretold that.

 

[Kivam]

Since we're just guessing, at random, what Nicola might have foretold:

 

Cenn Buie will buy the Brooklyn bridge from a stranger in a trench coat.  Angred at the realization that the Brooklyn bridge doesn't exist in Randland, Cenn will go nag Rand until Rand weaves a gateway to the bridge, rips it out of our universe, and drops it on Cenn's house.

 

I agree with Janya, btw.  That's impossible

[Kivam]

Nothing has been able to so much as phase the thread let alone harm it ... This leaves only one option .... This thread must be burned with fire! (Burning things on the internet with fire is impossible! Maybe Rand will give me a hand here!)

 

Maybe that's one of the 9 things?