Nicola's CoT Foretelling/Foretellings about Rand

[mb]

From http://linuxmafia.com/jordan, I found out that Nicola foretold that the Dragon Reborn would do 9 impossible things but does not identify those things.

This thread is to speculate what those 9 things will be.

 

Some guesses:

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Do actual flying with the One Power

 

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

I think the 9 things are the things in the prophecies of the dragon.

 

Callendor for example.

[Eleint]

One of the 'impossible' things he did is cleanse saidin.  Everyone thought it was impossible, but he did so.  Another will be to seal the Dark One as well as the creator -- though I doubt it'll be as simple as channeling or something.  I can't wait for Egwene to find out.  I predict she'll do one of two things: Try to control the male channelers and make them 'inferior' to the Aes Sedai or deny it happened.  She's got her heart set on Aes Sedai being as they always have been, especially after Halima's stuff.

[Shard]

You know I had to look up what you were talking about and now seeing what "9 impossible things are" I personally think she was BSing the Aes Sedai. She's one of those that likes to play up for any kind of advantage she can get. Seriously predicting 2 to 3 things a day? Unless we see her do a trance and SAY these things I'm going to put everything into question from Nicola.

[Kaznen]

I think it is a matter of perception of what is "impossible."  When Rand used Calandor to kill all the trollocs in the stone Moraine said she didn't think such a thing was possible, but I'm guessing any man AoL AS could have done that if Calandor and thought nothing of it.

 

Likewise consider how they would view the idea of an airplane.  No one would be able to wrap their head around the idea of using air pressure to achieve lift at all, left alone something so big.

 

So what is "impossible" is what the people of Randland would think is impossible because their minds and education couldn't concieve it.

[mb]

From http://linuxmafia.com/jordan, I found out that Nicola foretold that the Dragon Reborn would do 9 impossible things but does not identify those things.

This is the page it is from:

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/4_prophecy/4.3_misc-proph.html

The page quotes the passage.

 

Some guesses:

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Do actual flying with the One Power

Some other guesses:

-Convert darkfriends and/or Forsaken to the Light

-Cleanse other Taint-made things

 

[Roxinos]

Troll.

 

RAW quoted the part, and told you why it does not mean literally that he will do nine impossible things.

[callandor]

yeah that makes more sense then him doing nine impossible things. i guess if Nicola said he would cleanse saidin Tiana or anyone would say the rest were also "impossible".

[mb]

This thread may speculate the things Nicola might have said.

 

There might have been a chance that those things might have included the 5 things I guessed:

-Heal death or at least put life into a dead body

-Clean the Ways maybe with getting rid of Machin Shin

-Do actual flying with the One Power

-Convert darkfriends and/or Forsaken to the Light

-Cleanse other Taint-made things

 

Things in the Karaethon Cycle might have also been said excluding the prophecies fulfilled before the chapter.

 

[Mr Ares]

This thread may speculate the things Nicola might have said.

Thank you for so graciously allowing us to discuss that. I think Nicola might have said "shut up, mb."

[a5m]

Where is that in the books?  I mean, in CoT ch 17 Tiana says to Egwene, about Nicola, "Ever since we found out she has the Foretelling, she's been Foretelling two or three times a day, to hear her tell it. [...] battles with the Seanchan or the Asha'man, an Amyrlin imprisoned, the Dragon Reborn doing nine impossible things, visions that might be Tarmon Gai'don or a bilious stomach..."

 

That is Tiana's interpretation/paraphrasing, not the text of Nicola's Foretellings.  The specific wording of Foretellings is very important ... "doing nine impossible things" is just Tiana's way of saying "some crazy stuff".  It doesn't mean that Nicola actually said the words, "The Dragon Reborn will do nine impossible things."  That is a statement that could not be true, since if the Dragon Reborn does them, they're not actually impossible, are they?

 

You should be very careful with second-hand reports.  When we get an actual quote, great, pick it apart.  But this?  It doesn't mean anything.  Perfect red herring.

 

It could be  red herring. More likely, it is RJ's way of throwing a lot of information at us in a very short period of time. She was "dismissing" it since it was occurring too frequently. Personally, I think they all were foretellings and that they are all important.

[DemandredFO]

Does it say anywhere in the BWB how often Foretelling is possible in an integrated society.  Aes Sedai think they know everything so therefore Nicola can't be foretelling that often.  Yes, Nicola is irritating but Egwene should've at least tried to see what the truth of it was but Egwene "knows" that Rand compelled sisters so why she should investigate Nicola I don't know.

[Eleint]

Remember also that Tuon asked a damane to tell her fortune and the damane did so.  Jordan talked about that and how Seanchan think all damane can do so, when only those with Foretelling can.

 

In addition, think of the reams of information in the Prophecies of the Dragon and other prophecies.  It makes sense (at least to me) that a powerful Foreteller can 'trigger' her talent and if anything is 'floating around' to be Foretold they can 'grab' it as it were.  This was probably, like much else, lost in the Breaking.

 

In the current era with all the ta'veren, I can actually see Nicola, if she discovered the trick, foretelling that often.

[Lord Nik]

I think it is a matter of perception of what is "impossible."  When Rand used Calandor to kill all the trollocs in the stone Moraine said she didn't think such a thing was possible, but I'm guessing any man AoL AS could have done that if Calandor and thought nothing of it.

 

Any man? Really? The power was boosted by Callandor obviously but the impressive thing was the amount of flows he used.

 

Was it Egwene who said handling more flows was as easy as juggling more balls?

 

Rand had several thousand flows going... And from what I gather the amount that Rand can channel (from channeling power to dexterity to amount of flows and strength in the 5 powers) is EXTREMELY rare. Even in the AoL

[DemandredFO]

I think that's what Lews Therin used when he killed everyone in the palace, Lord Nik.  However, I haven't listened to the prologue in some time so I could be misremembering.

[a5m]

But none of the is relevant to the "nine impossible things" since I guarantee that is not what Nicola actually said.  It is Tiana's summary of a bunch of things she doesn't believe. 

 

To me it makes it more relevant. RJ was very good at playing with time and space relationships. In this case, you're hearing a bunch of (possible) foretellings from a second hand source. Yes, that's more inaccurate than from the first hand source. The source we believe is accurate and we've previously listened to other things that we have not seen yet while believing them to be true. (The dedicated spear, the lion sword, the one that see beyond...) The source for us this time is a sister and she is telling us what she was told. She doesn't believe it could possibly be true yet she accurately tells us what she heard. (She can not LIE.) Many are "too obvious" and anyone could have thought that up is the reason for her dismissal. Does her belief make them not true this time? I think some are perfectly true or at least very probable so what make this one less probable, especially since he has already done a number of things that might be considered impossible.

 

So let's go with it might be true and a proper foretelling. What might those things be? Unless you think the foretellings were specific and Tiana was telling us that Nicole had told her nine specific things that the dragon reborn will (or has) done that are impossible.

 

(BTW, I've listened to the entire, unabridged series now about 4 time with a concentration on the last several books. (Upping the time on the last books to double that or higher.) This questions seemed terribly obvious to me since he set it up perfectly and is one of the many things I'm waiting to see come to a conclusion in the final books.

 

So many things are happening at once at that time in the story that some one "in training", having foretellings being dismissed as unimportant is a perfect setup to tell us quickly what to expect in the final segments of the story. The dismissal is because the person involved wants the attention and is willing to do almost anything to get that attention. So is this just another example of trying to get that attention or is it the real thing? Obviously, Tiana doesn't think it's the real thing. We are left to make our own choice based on what we know to date and what we find out in the future. I think we will find out Tiana was wrong to have dismissed these.)

[Thor]

I believe the 9 impossible things are.

 

defeating ishamael at falme.

Drawing callandor

Bringing rain to the waste.

Defeating the seanchan in illian.

Cleansing saidin (and bringing the end of illusion)

Win last battle

Come back to life again.

 

ok still need 2, but those 7 are close i think.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The source we believe is accurate and we've previously listened to other things that we have not seen yet while believing them to be true.

 

The source of the phrase "nine impossible things" is not Nicola.  It is Tiana.  Which you acknowledged here:

 

The source for us this time is a sister and she is telling us what she was told.

 

Tiana is not telling us exactly what Nicola said.  She's giving a dismissive summary to someone she regards as a novice, about someone who she thinks is lying to look impressive.  So, the information we're getting from Tiana is not likely to be precise.

 

(She can not LIE.)

 

But she can be mistaken, and offer her own opinions.  She didn't say, "Nicola said, and I quote, 'The Dragon Reborn will do nine impossible things'."  She was offering a summary of her own opinion, which is meaningless, except as an assessment of her opinion.

 

I think some are perfectly true or at least very probable so what make this one less probable, especially since he has already done a number of things that might be considered impossible.

 

Whatever it is that Nicola said might be perfectly true.  But we don't know what Nicola said. What we have is what Tiana told Egwene, and that is not what Nicola said.  It is Tiana's assessment of what Nicola is reported to have said.  Big, important difference.

 

So let's go with it might be true and a proper foretelling

 

Let's not.

 

So many things are happening at once at that time in the story that some one "in training", having foretellings being dismissed as unimportant is a perfect setup to tell us quickly what to expect in the final segments of the story. The dismissal is because the person involved wants the attention and is willing to do almost anything to get that attention. So is this just another example of trying to get that attention or is it the real thing? Obviously, Tiana doesn't think it's the real thing. We are left to make our own choice based on what we know to date and what we find out in the future. I think we will find out Tiana was wrong to have dismissed these

 

I also think that Tiana is wrong to dismiss Nicola.  That doesn't change the fact that we don't actually know what Nicola said, so that our analysis of Tiana's dismissive summary is useless.

 

Jordan goes out of his way to make Nicola credible, by including things in the list that we know are true.  I am not impugning Nicola as a source of accurate information.  I'm saying that analyzing Tiana's specific phrase "nine impossible things" is futile, since that is almost certainly not what Nicola actually said.  Tiana was not quoting Nicola.

 

Besides, half of the things that people are listing are things that happened in the past.  Foretellings don't Foretell the past.  ::)

[Shard]

Well it depends on when these things happened that Tiana think are impossible I mean the Cleansing may have been predicted by Nicola if the timing was right but I really am not sure.

[Kaznen]

Remember that Nicola is like the Oracle of Delphi.  She zones out and gives her fortellings.  The same AS who is telling Egwene about them also says Nicola claims she doesn't remember what she says, but her friend Arenia(?) is always around to repeat what she says.

 

The Oracle, in Greek history, would be asked a question then she would go into a seisure and mumble something out.  Then a priest of Apollo would "traslate" what the Oracle said to the petitioner.

 

Arenia is the priest of Apollo (I know that classicly they were men) and tells the AS Nicola's fortellings. 

 

But historians have doupted that the Oracle said anything and the priest would make up something vague to please the petitioner.  The AS in Nicola's case is doupting Arenia more then Nicola.

[a5m]

So let's go with it might be true and a proper foretelling

 

Let's not.

 

I've also been reading this forum for a while and, as usual, you are being dismissive and long winded since you don't agree with the premise. I'd be more than willing to admit that I'm wrong once the last books are in print. Until then, either one of us could be wrong. We are not debating whether the foretelling is real but what the things might be if it were real.

 

So many things are happening at once at that time in the story that some one "in training", having foretellings being dismissed as unimportant is a perfect setup to tell us quickly what to expect in the final segments of the story. The dismissal is because the person involved wants the attention and is willing to do almost anything to get that attention. So is this just another example of trying to get that attention or is it the real thing? Obviously, Tiana doesn't think it's the real thing. We are left to make our own choice based on what we know to date and what we find out in the future. I think we will find out Tiana was wrong to have dismissed these

 

I also think that Tiana is wrong to dismiss Nicola.  That doesn't change the fact that we don't actually know what Nicola said, so that our analysis of Tiana's dismissive summary is useless.

 

Jordan goes out of his way to make Nicola credible, by including things in the list that we know are true.  I am not impugning Nicola as a source of accurate information.  I'm saying that analyzing Tiana's specific phrase "nine impossible things" is futile, since that is almost certainly not what Nicola actually said.  Tiana was not quoting Nicola.

 

Besides, half of the things that people are listing are things that happened in the past.  Foretellings don't Foretell the past.   ::)

 

I and the original author to this thread seem to be asking to speculate on what the nine things are, not to speculate on whether the exact phrasing was. Assuming there are to be nine things, what are they or what might they be. BTW, we don't have the exact time that Nicole had this supposed foretelling so some of the things since Nicole has appeared might be included. I, for one, would include the cleansing of saidin. In this case the event occurs after we know Nicola can foretell from listening during the bubble of evil event.

 

Remember that Nicola is like the Oracle of Delphi.  She zones out and gives her fortellings.

Nicola has the gift so RJ might have used this as the basis but made her ability real. She has many other gifts too and seems to be only unremarkable compared to the latest wonders of the tower. Nicola might even be equivalent eventually to (the old) Suain or even Cadswane if she becomes AS.

[Roxinos]

I've also been reading this forum for a while and, as usual, you are being dismissive and long winded since you don't agree with the premise. I'd be more than willing to admit that I'm wrong once the last books are in print. Until then, either one of us could be wrong. We are not debating whether the foretelling is real but what the things might be if it were real.

 

And RAW's point is that if we're going to be needlessly speculative on something we cannot possibly fathom reasonably, we might as well be needlessly speculative on the size of the male characters' genitalia. We have as much information on that, after all, as we do on what those "nine impossible things" are.

[Roxinos]

Except the Cleansing of Saidin was not impossible.  Because Rand did it.

 

a5m is not suggesting that it was. a5m has acknowledged that the "impossibility" was just Tiana's perception on Nicola's Foretelling. As such, he/she acknowledges that whatever those nine things are, they are entirely possible. He/she's just speculating that one of the things that Nicola Foretold was that Rand would cleanse the taint.

 

Which you've already agreed is a possibility.

[Majsju]

'Nine impossible things' is a figure of speech. Seen anyone interpreting 'on cloud nine' as meaning actually being on a cloud lately? Or 'to see red' meaning people actually start watching the world through a red-coloured filter?

Incidently, including numbers in these kind of sayings is quite common, something a wellread person like RJ would of course have known, and found useful.

[Mr Ares]

we might as well be needlessly speculative on the size of the male characters' genitalia.

If you insist. I think Thom is the most well endowed man in the series, and that Demandred has more in the trouser department than Rand - something he will be made aware of in the final book, leading to the end of his jealousy, on the grounds that for once he was the greater man.