The Gathering Storm Finished

[Jonn]

From Brandon's blog.

 

I wrote all summer, and the next point of interest comes at Worldcon. Tom and I were on a panel together, talking about AMoL. I noted that (by that point) I had around 250k written. He said something like "Ah, so you're almost done!" I looked chagrined and said "Actually, I feel that I'm only about 1/3 of the way there, Tom." He blinked, shocked, and then laughed a full bellied laugh. "It's happening again!" he exclaimed. "Jim sold me one book that somehow became three, and now it's happening again!"

 

They were aware that it was going to be longer than expected sometime last year. I believe they'd already said they were going to have something released by the end of this year, though. Publishers are crazy. Perhaps they shouldn't have said it. Perhaps they shouldn't have stuck to it too crazily. But *shrug* can't blame 'em.

 

And really, it does wholly change the dynamic of the whole concept of A Memory of Light being a single work. When Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings, he finished the book and then the publishers decided to split up a complete novel into three. It was a book that was never meant to be split from the author's conception, and that was how it was written.

 

Except now aMoL is not being written as one book. It is being written as three volumes.

 

Business has tainted how this book was supposed to be written.

 

As Brandon said concerning Harriet and Tom's decision: neither of them believe that Jordan could have done it all in one book, or that he would have done it all in one book. Harriet, being Jordan's wife and closest friend, is in a unique position to know what he would have done. I think I believe her when she says that even if Jordan had lived, aMoL would have ended up as three volumes anyway.

 

 

 

Yes NOW it is being written as three volumes, but Sanderson did begin and continue writing A Memory of Light as a single standing piece. He has since been forced to concede and write it as a three volume set. The dynamic HAS changed. For good or worse, remains to be seen, but it has changed.

 

I think you're missing my point a bit. I'm not making it a personal issue relating to RJ's trust in either Tom Dohrety or Harriet. That's not in my thoughts at all. The thing here is that Tor books decided to put up a deadline for a book release, in my opinion, rather foolishly, before they knew exactly how long the book would be and how long that would take to write. I really do have to believe that if Robert Jordan were not dying at the time from such a rare and fatal disease, he would be just as determined to produce a finale in one book, because honestly I think he was feeling the pressure more than anyone, to finish his epic and move on. I digress...

Foolishness...right. How does this make me look if I am the head of publishing, handling the final book by Robert Jordan, I've known Robert Jordan's habit of making the story deeper and denser, but still I am surprised when the man says that he wants the tale to end no matter how big the book ends up, and it ends up being twice as long as his longest book in the series. I don't think Tom Dohrety is a fool, but even wise men can make missteps. This is a major misstep.

I think he underestimated what it meant to fans when RJ said what he said. RJ wanted this to happen in one book for us as much as for himself. Dohrety also comes off looking like he's taken advantage of the fans' eagerness for SOMETHING this year. AND he appears to have taken advantage of Brandon Sanderson's sheer enthusiasm as a fan of the series and as a person who would accept the task of writing this book out of love rather than for the fame and the paycheck. If I were Sanderson, as soon as it was announced that there was a deadline and I knew absolutely that I could not make that deadline, nor could anyone really...I would have renegotiated then and there the terms of my role in this project. For you see now, Sanderson has had to dole out damage control for the miscalculations made by Tor in their handling of this situation.

 

I mean, do you really think the fans would have not understood a straight dealing answer from them? In the beginning they should have had a meeting and decided then and there what they wanted to do with this book. Did they A) want to do as RJ wished and power through a huge book, AND THEN decide on how to release it OR B) Decide it was too huge for practicality and apologize to the fans right off and communicate that this will be a multi-part work which Sanderson would complete in installments.

 

If it were said right off, I don't think people would have had that hard of a time accepting the decision. I don't think fans would have held it against them seeing as RJ had passed away and assembling the ending of his magnum opus...well...DESERVES three years to assemble. Does it not?

For "B", an apology early coupled with an explanation by the responsible parties, stating that they cannot possibly follow through the way RJ wanted...I mean, gosh, the man with the vision died. Of course it would take time for them to pull off finishing the tale, and it wouldn't be as easy. Installments would be a viable option.

 

The problem is that they waited so long to decide and strung us along, and in the end Tor didn't even show enough responsibility to make their own statement. They had Sanderson make the statement, which is pretty chicken**** in my opinion. It annoys me because the man has enough to worry about writing the book, now he has to explain the business decisions too? That's not his job, although I am grateful that we did get to hear his end of it. I get the feeling he's been dying to tel us what was going on for a long time, but was forbidden to make statements until the time he made them.

Anyone should have noticed that there were periods where info on progress was scarce.

 

So anyhow, as I tend to do, I ramble on. I'm not attacking anyone who is fine with the way things stand at the moment or the concept of three volumes. I am ok with it actually.

 

I just still remain at ill ease about how the thing was handled, and grateful that we have Sanderson taking care of his end in a pretty mature and even-handed manner. Many writers would be angry being put in the same position, potentially taking the majority of the heat for decisions he is not entirely at fault in making.

[Roxinos]

The dynamic HAS changed. For good or worse, remains to be seen, but it has changed.

 

*nod* I'll concede that point. Whether for good or for worse, it has changed, and the volumes that will be released are not necessarily going to be the same as the single volume A Memory of Light.

 

I just don't think that should be cause to hate Tor and call them money-grubbers and/or refuse to buy the books. Not that I'm saying that you are in that camp, merely that's the point I'm arguing against -- the ideas that Tor had no reason to separate the final book into three volumes, that it's all a ploy to get more money, and that it's going against Jordan's wishes.

[Jonn]

The dynamic HAS changed. For good or worse, remains to be seen, but it has changed.

 

*nod* I'll concede that point. Whether for good or for worse, it has changed, and the volumes that will be released are not necessarily going to be the same as the single volume A Memory of Light.

 

I just don't think that should be cause to hate Tor and call them money-grubbers and/or refuse to buy the books. Not that I'm saying that you are in that camp, merely that's the point I'm arguing against -- the ideas that Tor had no reason to separate the final book into three volumes, that it's all a ploy to get more money, and that it's going against Jordan's wishes.

 

 

 

Oh, no! I'm not in that camp. It's not about hate. It's about accountability. Justice. Trust me, this situation had the potential to become REALLY messy, but like I said, I really admire Sanderson's candor and ability to offer some comfort to us, the impatient masses.

Sanderson offered a detailed explanation from his side of the situation. All we got from Tor was a generic: "Hey readers, guess what we decided!" And expected us to shovel that stuff down our gullets as if there was absolutely nothing wrong with what they decided to do, as if the decision to split it didn't mean much that much to us.

 

It's not hate. It's disappointment. It's disdain and that feeling comes from apparent mutuality, and not disdain in the spiteful sense, but outright ignorance of the possibility that people might disapprove of the decision. At least that's the sense one might get.

 

As for the money...Even for politicians who sell their influence, it's not always about the money. Business isn't always about the money actually. It's also about the risks you are willing to take, the stance you're willing to assume and to what ends you intend to make for.

In all honesty, The Wheel of Time series are the only books I know Tor for. When I think of Tor, I think of the Wheel of Time, the stamp on the spine of a Robert Jordan book. That's all really. After the Wheel of Time is over, what else will I know Tor for? Well, now it will be for Brandon Sanderson, but then what else? I don't know. The Wheel of Time is the big hit for Tor in my eyes. The cash cow, the one. If I'm Tor, do I really want it to end? Do I really want to piss off the retailers by publishing a gigantic encyclopedia sized leather bound monster that needs it's own book shelf? If I'm Tor, do I want to take that stance? It would take a hero's courage to publish that book. Hey, and many times it could be said that a lot of heroes are fools who got lucky. So you can choose to go out like a hero and maybe get lucky or maybe you can just bow out and make the sensible decision, but be forewarned, you may look like a coward...compared to the hero.

 

The bottom line: Be decisive, and stand by your decision and don't let people make the excuses for you.

 

In this situation, I don't think Tor has measured up to the bottom line. Call that opinion hateful if you want, but I really don't feel that strong of a feeling. It just is what it is. Accept that. I do.

[Roxinos]

In this situation, I don't think Tor has measured up to the bottom line. Call that opinion hateful if you want, but I really don't feel that strong of a feeling. It just is what it is. Accept that. I do.

 

I'm fine with this assessment. *grin* I don't agree with it, but I can understand it.

[Charlz Guybon]

More snippets by Brandon. :)

 

http://twitter.com/BrandonSandrson

In case you're curious, THE GATHERING STORM stands at fifty chapters in length right now, not including prologue or epilogue.

 

I'm caught up on WoT revisions; still waiting for a dozen or so more chapters worth from Charleston.

[UGAShadow]

To tell you the truth, I didn't want a 750k word book anyway.  Most of my WoT books have problems staying together.  That kind of book would be gone by the first read through.

[Mr Ares]

As Brandon said concerning Harriet and Tom's decision: neither of them believe that Jordan could have done it all in one book, or that he would have done it all in one book. Harriet, being Jordan's wife and closest friend, is in a unique position to know what he would have done. I think I believe her when she says that even if Jordan had lived, aMoL would have ended up as three volumes anyway.

Not quite. You're misrepresenting that quote. Brandon actually said that Harriet and Tom told him that they don't think RJ would or could split the book.

 

I compared that to my copy of FoH. The difference was...dramatic.

I don't care about anything else you said, but this section basically called me a liar.

Not, it isn't. If you want to jump to unsupported conclusions, I can hardly stop you, but I say no such thing. All I said was that when I held my copy of FoH up to my screen and compared it with your line, they didn't match up, not by a long way. If you choose to see that as being called a liar, all I can do is put you right, once again. Of course, you probably still don't care. You'll just invent something in your mind rather than actually reading what I've said. Or what Brandon Sanderson said.

 

 

Two and a half inches. Even if you were to compress that down as far as possible, you can only get it down to 2 and one quarters inches.

My book isn't getting any thicker. Still not reaching even two inches. Also, when I measured your lines on my screen, they were 3 inches (FoH) and a little over 6.5 inches (AMoL). My book is smaller than yours.

Multiply 2.25 by 2.259 and you get 5.08275 inches.

Multiply something too big by something else and then stick and extra inch or so on the end and you get this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny that.

 

To tell you the truth, I didn't want a 750k word book anyway. Most of my WoT books have problems staying together. That kind of book would be gone by the first read through.

I would say that has more to do with shoddy workmanship than anything else. Books the size of this series should be capable of staying in one piece even after multiple re-reads.

 

In context all you have is, "But you are also splitting a book that Robert Jordan intended to be one book. (Tom and Harriet both have said they don't think he could have done it, or would have done it, given the chance.)". I read that as BS presenting one grounds for objection to the splitting (ie. RJ said he wanted one book), and then offering a parenthetical qualification to that objection. I can step back and see how one would read the lines as you are suggesting, but I still disagree. Regardless, this is something that can actually be cleared up pretty trivially by asking BS what he meant.  I don't reckon anyone wants to email him?

I'm sure he has better things to do than clarify for the ignorant what he said quite clearly. You are reading it wrong, it's that simple. He made promises to fans and publishers, and what you are saying is that he wouldn't fulfill those promises given the chance. All indications are that he very much wanted just one more book, because he didn't think he could make two good books.

 

First of all, provided quotes on a message board have no impact on the truth or untruth of a statement - that's just a silly thing to say.

First of all, it is true or not, but unless you have a quote (and why the hell should you be the first person to produce this mythical quote about a trilogy?) then we have no more reason to believe you when every quote I have ever seen from RJ says something completely different. It's about verifiability. If you can't find a quote, then it's just like a tree falling in a forest with no-one around to hear it - open for deabate whether or not a sound was made. If RJ makes a statement about it originally being a trilogy and no-one can provide a quote, how do we know he did?

 

This fact *is* further reflected in his work on WOT, which he *did* originally intend to be six books (reference: http://peterahlstrom.blogspot.com/2008/08/rolling-up-wheel-of-time-panel.html - 'In 1984, Jim came to Tom and said, “I’ve got a great idea for an epic fantasy, and it’s going to be 6 books.” Tom says that book one was 5 years late [it came out in 1989].' And EoTW was published in 1989, so clearly the WoT is what's being referred to there.)

Funny that this contradicts RJ's own statements, isn't it?

 

So we know that RJ consistently underestimated the number of books he would need to finish his stories. It looks like it happened again, and AMOL wasn't ever going to happen in a single volume.

No, we know that there is a lot of bad information out there. That is what your quote tells us. Because there is this from WOTmania: It wasn't difficult to get Tor to publish my first novel. Tom Doherty liked what I write. I've been writing for 20 years and I told him that I had an idea for a multi-volume book. I didn't know how many books and probably any other publishers would have thrown me out of his office, but Tom said OK!

[Jonn]

 

So we know that RJ consistently underestimated the number of books he would need to finish his stories. It looks like it happened again, and AMOL wasn't ever going to happen in a single volume.

No, we know that there is a lot of bad information out there. That is what your quote tells us. Because there is this from WOTmania: It wasn't difficult to get Tor to publish my first novel. Tom Doherty liked what I write. I've been writing for 20 years and I told him that I had an idea for a multi-volume book. I didn't know how many books and probably any other publishers would have thrown me out of his office, but Tom said OK!

 

I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with Mr Ares here on this point. I don't know where people have been getting this stupid idea that Robert Jordan didn't know when his own series should end.

As the baseball great Yogi Berra would say: "It ain't over till it's over."

 

I'm sure RJ was of much the same mindset. If asked when he would be done, he pretty much just gave a rough estimate. That's the feeling I've always gotten, but overall it was pretty RAFO up until he made that statement that he intended to finish the series with A Memory of Light. This is well documented as he made it as a definitive statement and said it more than once in the public forum.

 

I think it's a shame how so many people are second guessing the man's wishes. Where I come from, you respect a man's wishes after death no matter how silly it may seem to you. And really this is not very silly. If you respected him enough to continue with the writing of the novel, you should respect him enough to do it as close to as how he wanted it to be done as possible.

 

Yet still we have person after person using hearsay and conjecture to paint the man as an indecisive Hamlet who didn't know his own mind or opinion on his own creation. For what? To justify their own wants?

 

That's very unfair.

 

Guys, he knew what he wanted, and I think it's just tragic that we have to mock up a poor imitation of what he wanted just because WE cannot meet up to the vision RJ had.

 

He wanted to publish his last book in this tale under the single title "A Memory of Light".

 

We now have The Gathering Storm, Shifting Winds...

 

I honestly don't like any of the titles of these "volumes". I'm sorry, but I think they are generic and ghastly, and so below the caliber and lyrical quality of A Memory of Light.

 

They sound like they should be chapter titles. It's just disappointing. Add on that awful mocked up cover art. I could get nauseous on command now.

 

If I could talk to Brandon Sanderson right now I would beg him to please PLEASE reconsider at least these titles. They are truly not up to snuff and thus awful, and an insult to RJ's Memory.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

I honestly don't like any of the titles of these "volumes". I'm sorry, but I think they are generic and ghastly, and so below the caliber and lyrical quality of A Memory of Light.

 

They sound like they should be chapter titles. It's just disappointing. Add on that awful mocked up cover art. I could get nauseous on command now.

 

If I could talk to Brandon Sanderson right now I would beg him to please PLEASE reconsider at least these titles. They are truly not up to snuff and thus awful, and an insult to RJ's Memory.

Send him an email then, I did.

[Majsju]

 

 

If I could talk to Brandon Sanderson right now I would beg him to please PLEASE reconsider at least these titles. They are truly not up to snuff and thus awful, and an insult to RJ's Memory.

 

1. Brandon does not decide the titles, he only suggests what he thinks will work. For example, he wanted the first book to be called Gathering Clouds. TOR has the final say about the titles, though I expect Harriet to have a bit of a veto if that should be necessary. That is just a guess though.

 

2. The titles mentioned by Brandon are what he came up with as suggestions for subtitles, that would go together with the "supertitle" AMOL. Since the "supertitle" will not happen, the titles will have to be viewed in a completely different light.

 

[Roxinos]

My book isn't getting any thicker. Still not reaching even two inches. Also, when I measured your lines on my screen, they were 3 inches (FoH) and a little over 6.5 inches (AMoL). My book is smaller than yours.

 

Alright, your book is smaller than mine in terms of width. Congratulations.

 

However, if you measured the lines that I did earlier and you got 3 inches and 6.5 inches, then you measured them incorrectly because those two lines were shorter than the actual measurement of the book (something like 2 inches and 4.5 inches).

 

Trying to understate the size of the omnibus edition is just an effort in futility, and I honestly can't even understand why you're trying, Ares. You're usually smarter than that.

 

[Elgee]

It could be a simple matter of different font or monitor sizes, gentleman. What appears to be 2 inches on Roxinos' monitor, might be slightly different on Mr Ares' monitor.

[CUBAREY]

Quote from JON:

 

I think it's a shame how so many people are second guessing the man's wishes. Where I come from, you respect a man's wishes after death no matter how silly it may seem to you. And really this is not very silly. If you respected him enough to continue with the writing of the novel, you should respect him enough to do it as close to as how he wanted it to be done as possible.

 

Yet still we have person after person using hearsay and conjecture to paint the man as an indecisive Hamlet who didn't know his own mind or opinion on his own creation. For what? To justify their own wants?

 

That's very unfair.

 

Guys, he knew what he wanted, and I think it's just tragic that we have to mock up a poor imitation of what he wanted just because WE cannot meet up to the vision RJ had.

 

He wanted to publish his last book in this tale under the single title "A Memory of Light".

 

 

Where I come from you do not accuse a man's widow and good friend of raping his legacy without more then a few internet posts to base your opinion. Noone is comparing RJ to Hamlet we are saying that he consistently underestimated the length of the WOT series and had to revise its book count several times. Yes, he wanted AMOL to be one book mainly because at the stage of writing he was at he saw no natural break points. The person actually finishing the story has said that their are at least two natural break points. Do we know if RJ would have concurred with Sanderson's assertion if he had Sanderson's insight of having written over 400k of the story? We simply do not know. Do we know if RJ could have been convinced by Doherty and Tor that the Book was too long and would have to be cut? Again, we have no way of really knowing what he would have decided? All we have is his earlier statments, Sanderson's determinations and the fact that the final decision were made by his long time editor and widow and a close friend who would have the most personal of reasons to make sure that his legacy was protected as best as possible.

 

Lastly, we all forget that AMOL of Light was a "working title" we have seen nothing that suggests that RJ and TOR had decided on it as the final title before RJ's death (although it was a very fitting title and I for one would hope the last book at least incorporates it into its title).

 

Quote from Majsju:

 

1. Brandon does not decide the titles, he only suggests what he thinks will work. For example, he wanted the first book to be called Gathering Clouds. TOR has the final say about the titles, though I expect Harriet to have a bit of a veto if that should be necessary. That is just a guess though.

 

I think it is standard industry practice for the Publisher to decide on a Book's title based on marketing concerns. That being said even a substitute author such as Brandon would likely have some input into the decision (as it seems he had with the Gathering Storm, as Harriet asked for his opinion and she and Tor settled on a Title taking his wishes into account). But I totally agree with those who maintain that the proposed titles for the second and third installments are totally uninspired and hope that more fitting titles are found.

 

 

[Shard]

For those wondering where Robert Jordan said "just three more books". Here is a link to a chat in 2000, I believe this is after WH came out and he claimed "just three more books"

 

http://www.narcissica.com/retro/wwwladyjnet/WOT/

 

[20:21] <Moderator> <samugi> to <Moderator>: With the storyline as it is now it seems unlikely that the new book will finish the series. How many more books do you feel will be in this series?

[20:21] <RobertJordan> There will be at least three more books

[callandor]

<RobertJordan> There will be at least three more books

[20:22] <RobertJordan> I've known the last scene of the last book for 15 years

[20:22] <RobertJordan> But I've always been overly optimistic about how much I can get into any one book

 

RJ even says that he overestimates how much he thinks he can fit into one book. He could have and probably did do the same to AMOL.

 

edit: also,

[20:32] <Moderator> Fetch> to <Moderator>: Also, is there a set number of books that you are going to write?

[20:33] <RobertJordan> There is no set number

[20:33] <RobertJordan> It takes as much space as it takes

[RobertAlexWillis]

That is the root of the problem with everyone's "outrage" over the decision to split the books.  They are pretending that Tor wants to artificially inflate the amount of story so as to make it take more than one book to tell, in order to make more money.

 

Yes, Jordan said more than once that he intended to finish AMoL as one book.  He made similar claims throughout the series about keeping the total length shorter, too.  I started following the series in 1992, so I was around for a lot of them.  Robert Jordan was an excellent author, a masterful world-builder, and a very fine human being; but he wasn't God.  He made mistakes.  And one of the mistakes that he frequently made, by his own admission,  was underestimating how big the story would be once he wrote it all down.  His health gave him reason to be extra-emphatic about this last one; but it doesn't make it any more likely that he would have actually accomplished it, any more than he did the many other times he made length predictions.  I didn't believe that he could finish it in one even back when there was every reason to be optimistic about a full recovery.

 

In short, even if Robert Jordan had lived, I doubt we would be getting the rest of the story in one volume.  Yes, you can make that contention if you take one idea that he put forward and remove all context from it.  Of course, people do that all the time with the predictions they make about the story itself too, so I shouldn't be surprised.  But that doesn't make it reasonable or valid in the real world, any more than it is in a fantasy world.

 

But the idea that we saw actually executed, time and time again over the publishing life of this story, is the one quoted by Callandor here:

 

It takes as much space as it takes.

 

You're all free to keep complaining, of course.  ::)

[Jonn]

Quote from JON:

 

I think it's a shame how so many people are second guessing the man's wishes. Where I come from, you respect a man's wishes after death no matter how silly it may seem to you. And really this is not very silly. If you respected him enough to continue with the writing of the novel, you should respect him enough to do it as close to as how he wanted it to be done as possible.

 

Yet still we have person after person using hearsay and conjecture to paint the man as an indecisive Hamlet who didn't know his own mind or opinion on his own creation. For what? To justify their own wants?

 

That's very unfair.

 

Guys, he knew what he wanted, and I think it's just tragic that we have to mock up a poor imitation of what he wanted just because WE cannot meet up to the vision RJ had.

 

He wanted to publish his last book in this tale under the single title "A Memory of Light".

 

 

Where I come from you do not accuse a man's widow and good friend of raping his legacy without more then a few internet posts to base your opinion. Noone is comparing RJ to Hamlet we are saying that he consistently underestimated the length of the WOT series and had to revise its book count several times. Yes, he wanted AMOL to be one book mainly because at the stage of writing he was at he saw no natural break points. The person actually finishing the story has said that their are at least two natural break points. Do we know if RJ would have concurred with Sanderson's assertion if he had Sanderson's insight of having written over 400k of the story? We simply do not know. Do we know if RJ could have been convinced by Doherty and Tor that the Book was too long and would have to be cut? Again, we have no way of really knowing what he would have decided? All we have is his earlier statments, Sanderson's determinations and the fact that the final decision were made by his long time editor and widow and a close friend who would have the most personal of reasons to make sure that his legacy was protected as best as possible.

 

Lastly, we all forget that AMOL of Light was a "working title" we have seen nothing that suggests that RJ and TOR had decided on it as the final title before RJ's death (although it was a very fitting title and I for one would hope the last book at least incorporates it into its title).

 

 

The titles for these THREE books suck. The cover art is as bad as it gets. It's being split into three separate books and rushed through.

 

If you want split then re-split hairs, go ahead, but the situation to me is not so bright.

 

As I can't see that it's Brandon Sanderson's fault-

 

NOR HAVE I EVER EVER CLAIMED THAT HARRIET BEARS ANY FAULT...and I never will-

 

The responsibility, ultimately lies on the boss' shoulders for these decisions, as even you assert.

 

So wherever you come from, throwing around accusations like that is rather cynical and kind of proves my point that people jump to a conclusion without considering anyone else's feelings on the matter.

 

Let me just say finally that just because someone is your friend and close to you doesn't guarantee that they will know exactly what to do in your stead in a given situation, and that's what I'll say about the situation with Tor.

[deathgate]

That is the root of the problem with everyone's "outrage" over the decision to split the books.  They are pretending that Tor wants to artificially inflate the amount of story so as to make it take more than one book to tell, in order to make more money.

 

Brandon is in a tough spot since he is finishing someone else's work. If he did finish it in one short book there would be just as many upset that many storylines were missing and the RJ would have added another book (or two) if it needed it.

[CUBAREY]

The titles for these THREE books suck. The cover art is as bad as it gets. It's being split into three separate books and rushed through.

 

Agreed about the titles. The cover art has been horrendous since the second book, so no change their. However, how are the three books being rushed through. The first is wrtitten and being edited as we speak. The second is partially written and will did to be finished my March 2010. The Third book need not be finished until March 2011. As Sanderson said the Noevember, November, November publishing dates are conservative estimates which he should be easily be able to meet.

 

NOR HAVE I EVER EVER CLAIMED THAT HARRIET BEARS ANY FAULT...and I never will-

 

The responsibility, ultimately lies on the boss' shoulders for these decisions, as even you assert.

 

 

Harriet is not only the executor of RJ's estate (and could legally pull the book if she really felt it did not live up to RJ's standard) she is also the Editor of the books. Thus its a bit disengenous to lament the decisions that have been made and state that she bears no responsibility.

 

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Let me just say finally that just because someone is your friend and close to you doesn't guarantee that they will know exactly what to do in your stead in a given situation, and that's what I'll say about the situation with Tor.

 

LOL ... but of course ... YOU know.  ::) :P

[Jonn]

The titles for these THREE books suck. The cover art is as bad as it gets. It's being split into three separate books and rushed through.

 

Agreed about the titles. The cover art has been horrendous since the second book, so no change their. However, how are the three books being rushed through. The first is wrtitten and being edited as we speak. The second is partially written and will did to be finished my March 2010. The Third book need not be finished until March 2011. As Sanderson said the Noevember, November, November publishing dates are conservative estimates which he should be easily be able to meet.

 

I actually liked the art for the first 5 books. I didn't like 6...Knife of Dreams wasn't that great. The rest I can live with. Then again my feelings fir the first 5 books are very strong, and I get a thrill any time I see the art for those books as I've attached very fond memories to them.

 

The three books are being rushed through because they are in the form of three books aren't they. Sanderson had to make the decision to make a cut off and produce a book a third of the way through completion of the original single book form.

That's how it's being rushed through. But hey I understand. People want a book now and November is easy to accept. Whether or not RJ would or would not have agreed to split the book is moot. His original intent was to finish in one book. It's one of the few times he's ever held up a hand and promised anything like that to the public, and now it's rendered an impotent wish by what has occurred.

Whatever you may feel, you have to accept that this bothers some people, including me.

 

Hey, I'm happy to get something this November, but I do think this could have been handled better to avoid confusion or hard feelings.

 

NOR HAVE I EVER EVER CLAIMED THAT HARRIET BEARS ANY FAULT...and I never will-

 

The responsibility, ultimately lies on the boss' shoulders for these decisions, as even you assert.

 

 

Harriet is not only the executor of RJ's estate (and could legally pull the book if she really felt it did not live up to RJ's standard) she is also the Editor of the books. Thus its a bit disengenous to lament the decisions that have been made and state that she bears no responsibility.

 

You still want to pull this argument into the conversation? I really don't care if you do think it's disingenuous. I know what I mean, and how I feel, and I don't feel wrong doing on Harriet's part. You want to couple in my feelings for one person with another, that's you being a bit dense, rather than me being disingenuous.

 

I don't expect Harriet nor do I hold her responsible to be delivering press statements about the publishing of this work. She has other things to worry about.

 

Yes, she is the editor, and what she does is limited to and by what Brandon Sanderson produces to a large degree. As an Executor of RJ's will and wishes as it concerns this work, yes she can make decisions, but on what does she have to base these decisions on? Doesn't matter if the Publisher doesn't play ball.

She is still mourning the loss of her husband, so I'm not going to sit there and grill her decision making process on things she really needn't have to worry about. PR on the project has been clumsily handled by the Publishing company and that is where the large degree of fault lies so far as the people who are upset goes.

 

When Brandon Sanderson has to make the majority of public comments about the process of publishing this work, I'm left with a sour feeling for those who should be more forthcoming.

 

The new age is upon us people. Dialogue is key. We're not dealing in nuclear secrets here. You're a publishing company, not the CIA. You can talk to us honestly about the publishing of a book.

If you can't handle the criticism, then don't do things that are going to cause such controversy. Either that or communicate with people. It's not a one way street.

 

[Jonn]

Let me just say finally that just because someone is your friend and close to you doesn't guarantee that they will know exactly what to do in your stead in a given situation, and that's what I'll say about the situation with Tor.

 

LOL ... but of course ... YOU know.   ::) :P

 

No. I don't. But I know what was said. He said he wanted to finish in one book.

 

You can muck about with past quotes and place all manner of things out of context all you want, but you can't change that FACT.

 

Another fact: Tor ignored (or went around) that wish and decided to go ahead and split the novel and left Sanderson to do the detailed explaining.

 

As I said before, it reads pretty chicken****.

 

But whatever. We'll see how November turns out.

[Roxinos]

Another fact: Tor ignored

 

And Harriet. You're basically saying that Harriet either A) does not know what her husband would have done or B) doesn't care what her husband would have done.

[RobertAlexWillis]

No. I don't. But I know what was said.

 

No.  You're selectively choosing one thing he said, and ignoring everything else in the situation, because you can make it seem to support how you feel.

[Mr Ares]

I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with Mr Ares here on this point.

You are? Then surely the Apocalypse is imminent.

 

Alright, your book is smaller than mine in terms of width. Congratulations.

 

However, if you measured the lines that I did earlier and you got 3 inches and 6.5 inches, then you measured them incorrectly because those two lines were shorter than the actual measurement of the book (something like 2 inches and 4.5 inches).

 

Trying to understate the size of the omnibus edition is just an effort in futility, and I honestly can't even understand why you're trying, Ares. You're usually smarter than that.

No, I measured it correctly. You just refuse to take other (relevant) variables into account. You're usually smarter than that. The size would be dependant upon many things. For example, margins and font size. Adjust them, and there and more words per page and so fewer pages. That it would be big is undeniable, but exactly how big is rather less clear cut.

 

It could be a simple matter of different font or monitor sizes' date=' gentleman. What appears to be 2 inches on Roxinos' monitor, might be slightly different on Mr Ares' monitor.[/quote']Glad someone else spotted that.

 

For those wondering where Robert Jordan said "just three more books". Here is a link to a chat in 2000, I believe this is after WH came out and he claimed "just three more books"

 

http://www.narcissica.com/retro/wwwladyjnet/WOT/

 

[20:21] <Moderator> <samugi> to <Moderator>: With the storyline as it is now it seems unlikely that the new book will finish the series. How many more books do you feel will be in this series?

[20:21] <RobertJordan> There will be at least three more books.

That says at least three more, not just three more. As long as it needs to be was what he maintained all the way up to AMoL, which was one more - but still one that would be as long as it needed to be.

 

No. I don't. But I know what was said. He said he wanted to finish in one book.

And Harriet and Tom said they don't think he could have split it. That makes this a bit different to other guesses he made about number of books.

 

And Harriet. You're basically saying that Harriet either A) does not know what her husband would have done or B) doesn't care what her husband would have done.

Well, given her admission that he wouldn't split it...