Couple of questions

[Sab]

1) In book 3, many times was mentioned 13 Mydraal had been sent for to make a circle, couldn't they of used the ways or couldn't the Mydraal just appear from the shadow?

 

2) Did RJ ever say what would of happened had the women of taken part in the sealing of the Bore?  With the women's help would it of been a total success or would both male and female sides of the power of been tainted?

 

3) Was the taint the result from channeling near the bore, or from the DO himself?

[Graendals favourite]

1-- If the shadow have the person who can channel, they can turn them if they have the Myrddraal ready. The Shadow is tricksom.

 

2-- This is only speculation-- would it have been success, or both halves of the source tainted?

 

3-- definitely, the taint is from the Dark One.

[Gentled Ben]

RJ said (nope, don't know where to find it) that if the women had helped, then saidar would have been tainted as well, and he also said that in no turning of the Wheel, has saidar ever been tainted.

[Majsju]

1) In book 3, many times was mentioned 13 Mydraal had been sent for to make a circle, couldn't they of used the ways or couldn't the Mydraal just appear from the shadow?

 

Myrdraal may have the ability to travel a lot faster than normal people, but you still need to send for them. Otherwise, how would they know when and where to show up? They do not exactly have mobile phones in randland...

[Tyrell]

RJ said (nope, don't know where to find it) that if the women had helped, then saidar would have been tainted as well, and he also said that in no turning of the Wheel, has saidar ever been tainted.

 

I don't believe it.

[agaga]

RJ said (nope, don't know where to find it) that if the women had helped, then saidar would have been tainted as well, and he also said that in no turning of the Wheel, has saidar ever been tainted.

 

I don't believe it.

 

there really isn't any thing to believe if RJ said it...

[Gentled Ben]

RJ said (nope, don't know where to find it) that if the women had helped, then saidar would have been tainted as well, and he also said that in no turning of the Wheel, has saidar ever been tainted.

 

I don't believe it.

 

I don't have time now to look for the part about saidar being tainted if it were to have been used, but I also doubt if that is what you don't believe, and if it is, I don't care.  :P I found the other reference I was thinking of, and you can too, by going to the online information thread stickied on this board, clicking on thus the creator spake, and rummaging through it like I did. Here it is: "Q: Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that Saidar could be tainted instead of Saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.

A: That is not something I intend to explore. "

 

So...it is not quite what I thought he said, yet close enough; if he doesn't intend to explore it, it ain't gonna and never has happened.  :)

[Sab]

Well what I meant was, summoning them is easy since any of the Forsaken could just gate to the bore, say hey you 13 get to Tear then gate back and wait for the 13 to hussle to Tear either by ways or doing their shadow traveling thing.  We saw in the Shadow Rising that it doesn't take long to bring two rather large groups of Trollocs and Myrdraal to Tear.

 

Was curius as to if LTT only half success with sealing the bore was the result of not being able to make the circle with the females like he wanted.  Or if that was the best they could of done even with female help.

[Majsju]

Well what I meant was, summoning them is easy since any of the Forsaken could just gate to the bore, say hey you 13 get to Tear then gate back and wait for the 13 to hussle to Tear either by ways or doing their shadow traveling thing.  We saw in the Shadow Rising that it doesn't take long to bring two rather large groups of Trollocs and Myrdraal to Tear.

 

That of course requires that first the darkfriends in question knows about the forsakens ability to Travel, and then that a forsaken is around and can be bothered to do it. Seems better to send for myrdraal, and be sure. If a forsaken later can be bothered, your messengers got a healthy workout.

 

Was curius as to if LTT only half success with sealing the bore was the result of not being able to make the circle with the females like he wanted.  Or if that was the best they could of done even with female help.

 

Had women been present, Saidar would have been tainted as well.

The seals might have been more successful with female help, but LTTs plan was just a temp solution, seal the DO away until they could figure out how to permanently close the Bore shut. Something that would have been impossible with both male and female Aes Sedai going mad.

[ROB_88]

oh, you mean he tainted Saidin THROUGH the people present?!

i've always wondered why he didn't taint Saidar as well and that seems somewhat logical.

 

that might explain why LTT got more mad than anyone else, he took the full frontal blow, but the rest might just get some residual effect from him through the source

[mb]

About how myrddraal arrive, shadows and the Ways I think are both possible.

The books tell that it takes 13 dreadlords (darkfriend channelers) channeling through 13 myrddraal to force a channeler to the shadow.

 

About sealing the Bore; if women channelers were involved, there might have been likely that both sides of the Source would have been tainted.  Though there might have also been a chance that neither would have been tainted.

 

The Taint was the Dark One's counterstrike on sealing the Bore.

 

 

oh, you mean he tainted Saidin THROUGH the people present?!

i've always wondered why he didn't taint Saidar as well and that seems somewhat logical.

 

A number of possibilities:

-female channels were too far from the location

-the Dark One did not think of tainting saidar if he was able

-the Dark One decided it would more worth while to taint only saidin

 

[Samudor]

Tainting through the people channeling present is a great explanation as to why Shai'tan didn't taint both halves. I doubt that if the Dark One would have chosen not to taint saidar if had the opportunity- that would have made all channelers dependent on him, and more than likely would have ensured his victory.

 

Why did LTT only bring 100 men with him? Was it a timing thing? Or was it simply his unwillingness to put women in harm's way?

[CUBAREY]

Why did LTT only bring 100 men with him? Was it a timing thing? Or was it simply his unwillingness to put women in harm's way? 

 

 

 

There is a short story not included in the books (except the Big WHite Book) which explains that the second most influential AS at the time was female and she believed that LTT's plan was to dangerous and that the two Shadden Kul (sp) (used by Rand and Nyneave to cleanse Saiden) be used instead. The areas were these SK were being stored was overun by the forces of the Shadow and the SK were lost. However the influential AS still believed LTT's plan to be too dangerous and she convinced all other female AS to not help in LTT's plan. Therefore, there were no female channelers (except the Forsaken)in the vicinity when the bore was patched. LTT therefore utilized the strongest 115 male channelers to patch the bore (the so-called One hundred Compangions).

 

It is unclear whether if both Saiden and Saider had both been used whether the DO's counter stroke would have been able to taint either Saiden or Saider (although there is at least the argument that if both parts of the Power were used the DO could not have effected either).

 

 

 

 

[Jessica]

1) In book 3, many times was mentioned 13 Mydraal had been sent for to make a circle, couldn't they of used the ways or couldn't the Mydraal just appear from the shadow?

 

The only Myrddraal that can travel using shadows is Shaidar Haran.  As for getting the Forsaken to use gateways, we find out in KoD that if shadowspawn go through a gateway, they died.  Rand mentions it when he is explaining the deathgates. 

[Mr Ares]

The only Myrddraal that can travel using shadows is Shaidar Haran.

Wrong. They all can.

[Majsju]

 

 

The only Myrddraal that can travel using shadows is Shaidar Haran.  As for getting the Forsaken to use gateways, we find out in KoD that if shadowspawn go through a gateway, they died.  Rand mentions it when he is explaining the deathgates. 

 

The idea here was to use forsaken to Travel to wherever 13 myrdraal could be rounded up and ordered to go to where they were needed, ie not that the myrdraal would use the gateways.

[Charlz Fel]

The only Myrddraal that can travel using shadows is Shaidar Haran.

Wrong. They all can.

Agreed.  Aginor tested over a hundred to death trying to figure out how they do it, as we find out in a Semirhage PoV.

[Luckers]

1) In book 3, many times was mentioned 13 Mydraal had been sent for to make a circle, couldn't they of used the ways or couldn't the Mydraal just appear from the shadow?

 

The simple answer is that those were idle threats. They were uttered by Liandrin and her ilk, who were under the direction of Be'lal. If they were serious threats Be'lal would have had Myrdraal there in a heartbeat.

 

Mesaana's trap was that Be'lal use those girls to lure Rand--they may have had thoughts for turning the girls after that was achieved but it was secondary. Liandrin was a pawn in that plan, her comments and those of the others are worthless.

 

2) Did RJ ever say what would of happened had the women of taken part in the sealing of the Bore?  With the women's help would it of been a total success or would both male and female sides of the power of been tainted?

 

No, he did not. And I say that in full awareness of Gentled Bens later comments. RJ made no comments about the success or failure of Lews Therin's original plan to involve both male and female channelers.

 

My personal position is that RJ has made a theme of men and women being stronger when they work together, and that a joint circle would have been secure--but he named Latra Posae Decume's effort to keep the female Aes Sedai out of Lews Therin's plans the Fateful Concord--was it Fateful because is saved women from insanity--or because it doomed men?

 

Either way, no, RJ never commented on that.

 

3) Was the taint the result from channeling near the bore, or from the DO himself?

 

The Dark One himself. RJ has in interviews phrased it as the Dark One's retaliation.

 

Why did LTT only bring 100 men with him? Was it a timing thing? Or was it simply his unwillingness to put women in harm's way?

 

In the face of assaults from Sammael, Demandred and Be'lal the Light knew it was near defeat. Lews Therin suggested the sealing of the bore, but there was concern that doing so might accidentally rip the bore open. His opposite in the Hall of Servants, Latra Posae Decume, suggested the creation of two great sa'angreal (the Choedan Kal). The Hall chose to follow her, however just after their completion a move by Sammael conquered the area in which the Access Keys were kept, though he was unaware of it. After two failed attempts to recover the Access Keys the Hall chose to follow Lews Therin's plan (it was that or defeat) only by then Latra Posae Decume had approached all the female Aes Sedai who were strong enough to take place in the sealing and gotten them to agree to not take part (and agreement later known as the Fateful Concord).

 

So Lews Therin was forced to act without female participation.

 

 

[Raeyn]

 

If I recall correctly, it was more than 100 men... more like 114.  Like the Hundred Years War, it's just a pretty name. :)

[MikeRiley]

Who says the myrdraal would would have to be summoned? If I was one of the forsaken looking about for a random Aes Sedai to convert, I would have 13 myrdraal kept close somewhere, have that Aes Sedai captured by the 13 who were required and then have them go to the myrdraal. Simple.

[Sab]

1) In book 3, many times was mentioned 13 Mydraal had been sent for to make a circle, couldn't they of used the ways or couldn't the Mydraal just appear from the shadow?

 

The simple answer is that those were idle threats. They were uttered by Liandrin and her ilk, who were under the direction of Be'lal. If they were serious threats Be'lal would have had Myrdraal there in a heartbeat.

 

Mesaana's trap was that Be'lal use those girls to lure Rand--they may have had thoughts for turning the girls after that was achieved but it was secondary. Liandrin was a pawn in that plan, her comments and those of the others are worthless.

 

 

Thanks Luckers that helps it make sense.  Didn't make much sense to me this turning them but seemed like they were making the myrdraal walk there.   ;D

[Telzen]

No, he did not. And I say that in full awareness of Gentled Bens later comments. RJ made no comments about the success or failure of Lews Therin's original plan to involve both male and female channelers.

I remember reading it. Does anyone know where a copy of RJ's Q&A from Tor's site might be found at? It doesn't seem to exist there anymore.

[Mr Ares]

I remember reading it. Does anyone know where a copy of RJ's Q&A from Tor's site might be found at? It doesn't seem to exist there anymore.

http://www.wotmania.net/faqcategory.asp?ID=46

[Telzen]

Thank you Mr Ares. Its not there, but I'm going to keep looking around to find it. I definitly remember RJ saying that.

[Gentled Ben]

It might have been speculation in the Guide, but I know that I read it somewhere too, beyond just in a forum theory or something. I looked a little bit last night and could not find it, but I did not check the guide.