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What Have You Noticed on the Nth Read Through?


John
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though the other idea i have is that she knows Ishamael's trick of finding ta'veren.

 

I am quite sceptical that this would be the case. Where would she have learned this?

However, it would open up for an interesting opportunity, if her disappearance in KOD was her intending to go and find Mat, to check in on the third of the TR lads. She has spent quite some time with Perrin and Rand, but she has not seen Mat since TDR.

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though the other idea i have is that she knows Ishamael's trick of finding ta'veren.

 

I am quite sceptical that this would be the case. Where would she have learned this?

However, it would open up for an interesting opportunity, if her disappearance in KOD was her intending to go and find Mat, to check in on the third of the TR lads. She has spent quite some time with Perrin and Rand, but she has not seen Mat since TDR.

 

How bout Corianin's notes. A dreamwalker would stand a better chance of knowing this skill of reading the pattern.

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  • 2 months later...

i just got through reading TSR and Verin asked Perrin, right before the big battle in Emond's Field, when he was going to give up his axe for the hammer.  Not knowing that line from the Karaethon Cycle at the time i did not think anything of it... but on the read through i thought it was really cool, like verin trying to see how close she was to Tarmon Gai'don.  if this had already been said sorry i did not read all of the pages.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was skimming through aCoS and in the second chapter (I think), Kiruna is badgering Rand to be healed and he agrees to her "request." However, he says that he won't be healed by her. Taim then takes a step towards Rand with a smile on his face, but then he chooses Alanna.

 

It suddenly hit me that the reason that Taim took a step forward is because he is relatively good at Healing. I wonder if that will be explored on. Kinda weird how Rand is stronger than Taim yet can barely Heal a cut while Taim is the opposite.

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On my re-read through Lord of Chaos, I noticed this.

 

In Chapter 16 "Tellings of the Wheel" (page 385 in the paperbacks) Dyelin is talking to Rand about Gitara Moroso and the impact she had on the royal family of Andor. She notes how there were rumors that Gitara told Luc that "his fate lay in the Blight" and that "the last battle depended on him going".

 

I am now VERY interested to see what part Luc/Isam aka Slayer has to play in the last battle. I don't think RJ put this in there for no reason. I am betting that Slayer has a big part to play in Tarmon Gaidon.

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I recently re-read the series after a very long break. It was actually only the 2nd time i've read the entire series and I was surprised I felt so differently about some things. For some reason I liked characters I hadn't liked at all during the first read-through.

 

1. Elayne. Back in 1996 (or so) when I started reading WoT I loved her. I mean... I was 15 back then and she's a beautiful princess! I really couldn't stand Min and Aviendha. I was hoping for them to die a painful death. Reading it again now I suddenly realized WHY I didn't like the others. Elayne is Rand's first real love interest. And the idea of him having THREE girlfriends just seemed stupid to me. I still don't buy all the stuff about the girls having no issue with sharing him. It just seems silly. So as she was the first I probably had some subconscious moral authority telling me: "What the hell? Rand should just marry Elayne and forget the others. He loves her." (And I'm a liberal...)

Now my beef with the whole 3-girls-for-one-guy thing is still there... but as all 3 of them are very familiar characters for me by now I don't feel like Elayne "was first" anymore. And then... I realized that Elayne is actually bloody annoying in many ways. I guess I don't have to tell you. I started to really enjoy Min's PoV's (which I found utterly boring back then) and Aviendha can be good fun, too.

 

2. Mat. Quite frankly, I didn't care much about Mat when I read WoT for the first time. The main story's always been Rand's story and I hated being sidetracked. (It's the same in Star Wars. Most of my friends loved Han Solo. I think his scenes are just distracting me from getting to see more of Lukes story.) Rand's development was very painful to watch.

During the re-read I realized that Mat is actually a pretty awesome character and I enjoyed his scenes immensely. The constant patronizing attitude of the Aes Sedai has always bothered me a lot so it's very refreshing to have one character who simply doesn't care about them. They try bossing him around but in the end he just doesn't let it affect him.

 

3. Lanfear. No.. actually nothing has changed. I still miss her a great deal. :(

 

I gotta admit that the whole experience of re-reading the series was a nice one. The slower paced books didn't bother me much at all anymore. When I read the books for the first time I was so anxious to know how the plot evolved that all the sidetracking and multiple PoV's from minor characters annoyed me.

Now that I already know the plot I'm enjoying those scenes a lot more.

 

One of the few things that still bother me however is how utterly useless most of the Forsaken are. And it's a pity Semirhage didn't get more "screen time".

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Personally, I think Demandred is doing a pretty good job of making Rand's attempt to unify everything a living nightmare. Although, I am still mad about how easily he was beaten at Shadar Logoth.

 

As for the other Chosen/Forsaken. Lanfear was doing a pretty good job too. Moiraine just happened to know exactly what she needed to do to get rid of her I think. (learned from the Ter'Angreal in Tear) Everyone else has pretty much been making huge mistakes. Asmodean was a complete disappointment as he will not even be coming back and I was interested to learn more about him.

 

I still don't know all of what Mesaana is up to, but she also could be doing a decent job especially considering where she is.

 

Everyone else just keeps getting themselves killed which gets rather annoying after a while.

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From KOD, As If The World Were Fog:

 

"Suddenly, everything seemed to ripple in Perrin's sight. He felt himself ripple. Breane gave a cry and dropped the pitcher. The world rippled again, and Berelain clutched his arm. Tylee's hand seemed frozen in that odd gesture, thumb and forefinger forming a crescent. Everything rippled for a third time, and Perrin felt as if he were made of fog, as if the world were fog with a high wind coming. Berelain shuddered, and he put a comforting arm around her. She clung to him trembling. Silence and the scent of fear filled the tent. He could hear voices being raised outside, and they sounded afraid, too."

 

Absolutely nothing good will come from that.

 

-- dwn

 

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Personally, I think Demandred is doing a pretty good job of making Rand's attempt to unify everything a living nightmare. Although, I am still mad about how easily he was beaten at Shadar Logoth.

 

Agreed on Demandred.

 

As for the other Chosen/Forsaken. Lanfear was doing a pretty good job too.

 

Yeah, she did. And that's why I miss her so much. RJ should've brought Lanfear and Moiraine back a couple of books ago. Lanfear's too much of an interesting character (compared to most of the other Forsaken) to be left out. And I'm not counting Cyndane her as she's not doing much at all.

The reason I like Lanfear so much is the ambiguity in her character. I've always been a fan of villain's that weren't 100% evil. And Lanfear certainly isn't the perfect, loyal follower of the Dark One. She definitely sets her own agenda and if given the chance she'd probably just get rid of the Dark One, marry LTT and rule the world. Even her story of how and why she turned to the Shadow is rather ambiguous. I do think LTT was being an ass to her and didn't she drill the hole into the DO's prison by accident? :P

 

Everyone else has pretty much been making huge mistakes. Asmodean was a complete disappointment as he will not even be coming back and I was interested to learn more about him.

 

Sammael was a huge letdown, too. The Forsaken are so incredibly arrogant and vain that they make mistakes all the time. And while I see how arrogance can lead to mistakes it just makes them look pretty dumb.

And "dumb" isn't really something I'd want to think about when thinking of the main villains in the WoT.

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Demandred wasn't beaten at Shadar Logoth. He was up against a circle that performed on his own level. He backed out of that, since he wasn't prepared to risk his life for the sake of other Forsaken.

 

The problem for the Shadow at Shadar Logoth, IMO, was that they didn't form circles. I believe they could have had a better outcome if they had done that.

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Demandred wasn't beaten at Shadar Logoth. He was up against a circle that performed on his own level. He backed out of that, since he wasn't prepared to risk his life for the sake of other Forsaken.

 

The problem for the Shadow at Shadar Logoth, IMO, was that they didn't form circles. I believe they could have had a better outcome if they had done that.

 

This has a rationale behind it.

 

Joining a ring - at least to the AoL folk, since the Black Ajah apparently figured a way to do so otherwise - is voluntary.

 

But releasing those in the ring is completely up to the discretion of the one directing the flows.

 

For that reason, I'd say that the only way the Forsaken would have submitted to linking is if Elan Morin led the ring - since he was as Ishamael and is as Moridin, Nae'blis and so can command them, using SuperFade to enforce that if necessary.

 

However, we know that Elan Morin decided to take a personal day at SL.

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Yeah, I wonder why he did that. It's not like he is afraid to risk his life/lives. Maybe he wanted to make sure that the Dragon made it to the Last Battle? The DO seems to want Rand to stay alive. I think the DO needs Rand's assistance for the final victory.  :-\

 

Probably because he's experiencing something like Rand's illness whenever he channels.

 

-- dwn

 

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I noticed this for the first time.

 

From WH CH: In need of a Bellfounder:

 

The sweltering foundry's one long

room might have been some sort of torture chamber. Hoisting chains dangled from the rafters, and sudden

flames gouted from the furnace, throwing flickering shadows and leaving Mat half-blind. And no sooner

would he blink away the afterimage of raging fire than another eruption would leave him squinting again.

Workmen dripping with sweat poured molten bronze from the furnace's melting pot into a square mold, half

again as tall as a man, that had been levered into position on rollers. Other great molds like it stood around

the stone floor, amid a litter of smaller molds in various sizes.

 

This is when he walks into the Bell Founder's foundry. Maybe I'm just imagining things, but this seems like a little bit of foreshadowing here. ;)

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Yeah, I wonder why he did that. It's not like he is afraid to risk his life/lives. Maybe he wanted to make sure that the Dragon made it to the Last Battle? The DO seems to want Rand to stay alive. I think the DO needs Rand's assistance for the final victory.  :-\

 

Probably because he's experiencing something like Rand's illness whenever he channels.

 

-- dwn

Maybe. Of course, Rand linked up with Nynaeve. I thought that Moridin could have either held on to the TP/OP himself (the way Rand held on to the OP), or maybe even have Cyndane and/or Moghedien form a circle with him (if he still has any chance of using the OP?). But then maybe he didn't trust them not to use compulsion on him in order to be released from the cour'souvra? I don't know how far they can be trusted. Probably not very far. :-\

 

 

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two things I've noticed on this read through, when I was reading tdr, the forshadowing of all the cities under the forsakens control, ie the bad dreams of everyone in town and the down trodden way everyone felt. secondly in tsr, there is a small scene in the begining when perin is heading up to confront rand with faile in tow, right after the first bubble of evil. just before he gets to the gaurdsman and the highlord he smells old sweat and sickly sweet perfume.... trying to figure out if thats supposed to mean something, who it came from ect...

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So this year I'm taking a world history class, and we just got to a chapter on the rise of Islam. A lot of things about the Arabs before Islam and once they converted parallel the Aiel.

 

First, they are regarded as savage, uneducated desert nomads by their "advanced" neighbors. These desert dwellers are divided into clans and are always at war with each other, often over control of water. They also follow a code of chivalry.

 

Along comes Muhammad, who unites these tribes by means of his new religion, or conquers them with his followers. Once the clans have all converted to Islam, they look beyond their territory.

 

All the energy that went into fighting each other is then focused outwards. These new Muslims go on a conquering spree, one rivaled then only by Alexander the Great's, at least in sheer land captured.

 

Rather telling eh? The Arabs were divided into constantly warring clans, just as the Aiel are. They are then united by Muhammad, as Rand does, and then proceed to conquer everything everywhere. Muslims also allow polygamy, which is also practiced by the Aiel, although  two wives is the limit. For Muslims the sky's the roof.

 

Never noticed this on my first two read-throughs, mostly because i didn't know any of this stuff. I just thought they were Native Americans. (who also do the "if you're touched in battle then you're a loser" thing.)

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Never noticed this on my first two read-throughs, mostly because i didn't know any of this stuff. I just thought they were Native Americans. (who also do the "if you're touched in battle then you're a loser" thing.)
Well, i don't know if RJ had the Arabs specifically in mind, but I think looking at any of the groups as inspired by just one historical group is a bit of a mistake. They're more a short of mish mash of various groups. Note, if you will, how the Aiel have the colouring of the Irish (is oosquai Guinness?), in addition to their other qualities. A bit from the native Americans, a bit from the Israelites, the Arabs, the Zulu, whoever else (and supposedly, "somewhat Slavic" accents). Just imagine a desert dwelling Irishman raised by the Apache and with a Russian accent and you can't go far wrong.
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Never noticed this on my first two read-throughs, mostly because i didn't know any of this stuff. I just thought they were Native Americans. (who also do the "if you're touched in battle then you're a loser" thing.)
Well, i don't know if RJ had the Arabs specifically in mind, but I think looking at any of the groups as inspired by just one historical group is a bit of a mistake. They're more a short of mish mash of various groups. Note, if you will, how the Aiel have the colouring of the Irish (is oosquai Guinness?), in addition to their other qualities. A bit from the native Americans, a bit from the Israelites, the Arabs, the Zulu, whoever else (and supposedly, "somewhat Slavic" accents). Just imagine a desert dwelling Irishman raised by the Apache and with a Russian accent and you can't go far wrong.

 

Oosquai most resembles tequila. It looks like brownish water, it's extremely potent, and it's made from a cactus analogue.

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Something else that just hit my mind from my re-read of the series was the comments about Tel'aran'Rhiod. I had completely missed this the first time, but it is stated that the only thing in common with both the DO and the Creator is T'a'R. This makes me wonder whether something EXTREMELY important is going to happen later on in T'a'R, something key to winning TG.

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Yes, but there aren't many cacti or algave in Scotland or Ireland, mate.  ;)

 

Whisky's made from grain.

 

I don't recall reading anything about what it was made from.

 

On a related note, does anyone remember reading what 'algode' was supposed to be? I've always assumed cotton, since that fibre doesn't seem to be in use elsewhere.

 

-- dwn

 

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