Who is the Best Ruler??

[sillyman]

Who do you think is the best ruler (political, economically, socially)??

 

The only 3 i can think of worth of note are:

Rand, Belerain and Taim

 

Rand: because he is extremely liberal for a dictator e.g. laws apply to all, ect

 

Taim: He built the black tower from nothing and has even assembled a new order insided it and moreover has managed to maintain Rands trust.

 

Belerain: just seems to be competent all round e.g kept Tear out of Mayne, good steward of Carhinien. 

 

Logain may join them in AMoL because he to seems to be a very competent  leader (no evidence just impressions) 

 

Dishonorable mentions for

 

Elaida: pick a reason, any reason.

 

Egwene: She should have the tower by now.  If it had been me on the first day i would have traveled inside the Amrylins study grabbed Elaida and from here discovered the names of the sitters then grabbed them leaving the tower rudderless and open to an easy take over.  She held all the cards a blew it big time.

[Hybrid]

If it had been me on the first day i would have traveled inside the Amrylins study grabbed Elaida and from here discovered the names of the sitters then grabbed them leaving the tower rudderless and open to an easy take over.  She held all the cards a blew it big time.

Who are you?  Siuan?  ;) ;D

[Majsju]

If it had been me on the first day i would have traveled inside the Amrylins study grabbed Elaida and from here discovered the names of the sitters then grabbed them leaving the tower rudderless and open to an easy take over.  She held all the cards a blew it big time.

 

Had she done any such thing, the split would have become permanent. The objective here is not only to simply remove Elaida, but to unify the two (three if you count those standing on the side) fractions. Egwene has chosen the course of action that given the circumstances has the greatest chance of achieving this, and that alone makes her one of the best leaders around.

[Tel Janin]

Lan.  He's the best ruler.  Even though his land has fallen to the Blight, he still fights (even after all his people quit).  That's devotion.

 

Besides, Lan is the most dangerous warrior in the entire series (OP aside), so I think he's awesome.

 

I wanna be like Lan (I'm just too dang old and broken down).  ;D

[Tyrell]

Berelain, she's willing to give it all up to protect her nation.

[Luckers]

Had she done any such thing, the split would have become permanent. The objective here is not only to simply remove Elaida, but to unify the two (three if you count those standing on the side) fractions. Egwene has chosen the course of action that given the circumstances has the greatest chance of achieving this, and that alone makes her one of the best leaders around.

 

Agreed. Perhaps in taking Elaida she could have forced reunification, but it would have been a sour alliance, as bad as the tensions between the ajahs now.

 

Frankly i think Tuon is a very down to earth ruler, and most the Aiel too. The Borderlanders seem pretty controlled.

 

Monarchy in general is not the most stable govermental system--dont get me wrong, im no American howling the virtues of democracy, but  monarchy is what it is, and we can't expect too much from it.

[Kaznen]

I agree that Tuon is one of the best.  The Aiel clan chiefs don't seem to do a whole lot, there isn't a need.  The Aiel follow ji'e'toh and come to the clan chiefs over water disputs.

[Cockta]

Wuld you think Elayne is a good leader??

[Tyrell]

Anyone who thinks Elayne is a good queen should never be allowed anywhere near power.

[Majsju]

Bold words since we have not seen Elayne actually act as queen, we have seen her trying to claim her throne.

 

She has the intelligence and education to be a good ruler. She seems to have a lot more empathy for her nations citizens than the typical monarch does. She seems to have the wisdom to surround herself with people as advisors. Elayne has a good chance of becoming a good ruler, but ultimately it depends on how she will us the gifts she has. And it also depends on if she can keep Gawyn as far away from Caemlyn as possible.

[pxnsolid]

Id have to say i agree on Elayne having the right stuff to do the job, but im curious as to why you say

 

And it also depends on if she can keep Gawyn as far away from Caemlyn as possible

 

 

[Tyrell]

Elayne turns up about a year after her mother absconds and expects to get everthing her way, she's a petulent brat and she takes rediculous risks that gets a hell of a lot of people killed.

 

I'm really really not a fan.

[mb]

I think there could be a number of good leaders in this series.

 

Rand:  He has come up with some good laws for the countries he has ruled in.  Also, he has some good strategies like guarding the Waygates and cleansing saidin.

Perrin:  He has united his home town against the trollocs/myrddraal.  And he has done well in Rand's rescue in the Dumai's Wells battle.

Mat:  He has lead his army (Band of the Red Hand) to many victories and is good at keeping promises.

 

Elaida:  It was good of her to have Seaine investigate the White Tower.

Egwene:  She has made some good decisions like in the case where Rand had Mat rescue Elayne and maybe also in sending Lan to Ebou Dar.  And she has kept the rebels united.

Out of these two, maybe Egwene would be the better Amrylin.

 

Elayne:  She is somewhat good in listening to good counsel and is fairly skilled in taking charge of things.

Berelain:  She also is somewhat good in taking good advise and has done somewhat well in enforcing Rand's rules.

 

Taim: He done well in teaching the Ashaman.

Logan:  He seems more loyal than Taim.  I think he might lead the Ashaman better.

 

[Hybrid]

As far as Elayne goes, I agree that she has the education and skills to lead her country.  But her personality needs definite improvement.  Once she matures, she will be an excellent leader.  Right now, she's the stereotypical spoiled teenage brat.

[Mr Ares]

Lan. He's the best ruler. Even though his land has fallen to the Blight, he still fights (even after all his people quit). That's devotion.

Devotion yes. Ruling no. Who does he rule? He fights a one man war. He rules only himself. Hardly a good qualification to be the best ruler in the series.

 

Monarchy in general is not the most stable govermental system--dont get me wrong, im no American howling the virtues of democracy, but  monarchy is what it is, and we can't expect too much from it.

Democracy is the worst system of government. Except for all the other ones that have been tried.

[GrandpaG]

I agree that Gawyn would "complicate" matters.

If nothing else, their reunion would be a disruption.

Elayne has enough on her plate as it is.

No.

She is not at present equal to Morgase.

Given time, she will shine far beyond Morgase.

Spoiled rotten brat?

Definitely.

Best trained "rookie" monarch in all of Randland?

Definitely.

Tenobia is spoiled rotten, but still leads.

 

Military prowess does not guarantee good leadership.

Lan is Lan.

Same with Davram Bashere.

Or the fox.

Maybe Gareth Bryne...he spent a lot of time in Morgase's court...he seems to have leadership qualities and insight beyond "let's beat 'em up just because we can".  He's seen the Game of Houses played by the best.

 

Speaking of the Game of Houses, wouldn't it be neat to see Moraine sitting on the Sun Throne with Thom as her "advisor" and Court Bard?

* nods *

:)

 

Back to the post title: "Who is the Best Ruler??"

I'd never vote for the leaders of Tear.

Or the king/counsil of Illian.

Carhien is in turmoil...no solid leader there to vote for.

Same in Gheldean.

Beslan is new...not him.

Elayne is new...not her.

Egwene is new...not her.

Rand is just doing what he has to do...not him.

Who is even in charge now for the Children of the Light?  Not him.

The west coast is in turmoil...none of them.

That leaves the borderlands, Aiel, Tar Valon, Far Madding, and far east (who we know very little about)...and the Tuatha'an.

I like the Tinker's Mahdi leaders.

They are probably chosen by their band.

There are no military take overs or political assassinations to gain power.

They are not born into their positions of leadership.

Respect is at the core of their job.

Responsibility is the only pay.

They don't gain wealth through being leader.

They don't have a bigger, more colorful wagon than their subjects.

They eat the same food.

They dance and sing with the commoners.

Their children can marry outside of the class.

Yup.

I think I like the Mahdi leaders best.

Just an opinion.  :)

 

What?

That doesn't count as being a "ruler"?

Well, then.

I guess I can't vote.

None of the others have my respect as much as the Mahdi.

Sorry.

:-[

 

 

edit:

Just realized I left out the Seanchan.

Not on purpose.

No.

They have evolved from the Great King Hawkwing's style into what they now are.  I don't know how close they are to his government methods.  Totalitarianism.  Slavery/human property.  Strict social castes/classes.  Encouraged assassinations.  Survival of the fittest.  Inheritance of title/name.  Spies.  Torture.

No.

Efficient?

Maybe.

Effective?

Maybe.

Best rulers?

No. 

[Tel Janin]

Lan. He's the best ruler. Even though his land has fallen to the Blight, he still fights (even after all his people quit). That's devotion.

Devotion yes. Ruling no. Who does he rule? He fights a one man war. He rules only himself. Hardly a good qualification to be the best ruler in the series.

 

I'll concede that point, Mr. Ares.  However, one thing we've all failed to address is what parameters we are using to define what makes a good ruler.  Is it how much territory controlled?  How happy the people are?  How economically successful the nation is?  I think, before we start picking the best ruler, we need to define what we consider to be best attributes of a good ruler.

 

 

[Shard]

I think one requirement would be how has the said ruler benefited those he/she rules? Have they prospered? It matters little how much land they claim if the people are suffering and miserable. Take Berelain for example she spends all of the books out of her country yet everything she does is FOR her country's independance and stability. Her country is very small when compared to places like Tear and Illain. However through her rule her people are fiercly loyal and devoted to her.

 

I also agree with Tyrell that Elyane has made some poor choices in risking herself. It's one thing to charge into a lion's den to get the BA but one shouldn't do that while pregnant no matter what vision Min saw. Now Elyane will most likly grow into a mature ruler as she is quite young but then so is Egwene and comparing those two I'd say Eggy is leagues ahead of Elyane.

[Ndshacker]

A leader should be like Mat, In charge, but not with his nose so far up in the air that he'll drown when it rains. (Elayne)

[GrandpaG]

Out of all of the "ruler" characters in the series who are presently "on the throne"/actively ruling, NONE of them come to mind as being "The Best".  If I had to choose, it would be one of the borderlanders, but they're all with the really big army outside Camelyn.  I think the Lord of Chaos is ruling right now.

 

Probably the least affected by the rebirth of the Dragon are the introverts of Far Madding....hhhhmmmmmm.  :-\

[Asmo]

Well, Rahvin was the best ruler. He smoothly picked up Caemlyn straight from Morgase, and led the nation straight according to plan, until he got slapped out of existence by Rand's Balefire.

 

I'd say Graendal, but Graendal went into a nation which was in chaos, so it was very easy to establish control with lesser deftness than was needed in Andor.

 

Taim would qualify, but since, at the moment, we don't know whether he is supported by another person and whom, it might be a little unfair to give him all the credit.

 

"Good" rulers doesn't neccessarily mean "Walking-in-the-Light" rulers.

 

Rand is a bad ruler, rebellion breeds wherever he sets his foot. He tries, though.

[GrandpaG]

A good ruler is like a good postman.

 

They want to do the job even though most people see it as boring.

They are capable of handling whatever comes at them.

They know who the real boss is, so they try to keep them satisfied.

(insert your favorite postman joke here)  ;)

If they do their job really good, nobody notices.

If they screw up, everybody soon learns about it.

They can't shoot everyone that they meet even though they might like to.

Walking on egg shells is a way of life.

They can be invisible until something goes wrong.

Everybody thinks that they could do "that job" with their eyes closed.

Their feet ache at the end of the day.

The wages are never enough.

You work, retire, then die.

[mb]

Out of all of the "ruler" characters in the series who are presently "on the throne"/actively ruling, NONE of them come to mind as being "The Best".  If I had to choose, it would be one of the borderlanders, but they're all with the really big army outside Camelyn.  I think the Lord of Chaos is ruling right now.

 

Lord of Chaos was the title the Dark One gave to Rand.

Unless that title was switched to someone else, you are saying that Rand is ruling.

 

[pxnsolid]

They want to do the job even though most people see it as boring.

 

I disagree. The best leaders Ive known, were people that didnt want it, but knew it had to be done, and stepped up to do the best they can.

[Alderthal]

Rulers:-

 

Best dictator goes to Tuon. Even though we haven't seen her leadership skills on an empire scale, the Seanchean ways aid greatly in her dictatorship (kneeling, slavery, etc, not to mention how she's been trained from birth to take the mantle of leadership).

 

Best Tyrant goes to... Rand! Yup, our golden sheepherder has the makings of an excellent tyrant. Ruling with an iron fist, harsh to the point of cruelty, and even if his ideas are 'enlightened', the way he enforces them makes him a tyrant.

 

Best Politician goes to... Pedron Nial, the ex leader of the WC. It's a pity he died, he was very... Machiavellian.

 

Honorable mentions go to Morgase, Perrin, Dobraine, and Berelain. While yes, we haven't seen much in the terms of how they rule their respective nations/towns, I'd say they are pretty stable and successful.