Various Issues

[White_star]

Seeing Taveren is a channel related Talent.

 

??? Is it? Wasn't there an Ogier female (an Elder I think) who could slightly see Taveren?

[ROB_88]

yes, the Ogiers can see it. but i think they said that they were very weak with it.

 

i have a problem with one thing in EoTW.

when Rand first thinks he's killed the DO he says his real name and nothing happens. nothing at all, not even a little shaking ground or thickening of the air.

i don't believe that the DO's effect would be weaker just because Rand injured a few Forsaken

[vasu619]

yes, the Ogiers can see it. but i think they said that they were very weak with it.

 

i have a problem with one thing in EoTW.

when Rand first thinks he's killed the DO he says his real name and nothing happens. nothing at all, not even a little shaking ground or thickening of the air.

i don't believe that the DO's effect would be weaker just because Rand injured a few Forsaken

 

Rand was probably too exhausted/elated to notice it.

 

[Mr Ares]

Seeing Taveren is a channel related Talent. Since Siuan and Logan were severed ones that had the Talent, did they regain it when they were Healed?

Yes.

Also, is that Talent someone is born with or is it someone can develop?

Born with.

The non-channeling Talents (Foretelling, Dreaming, Dreamwalking) I guess the people would be born with.

Only channelers can Foretell, so it's a channeling related Talent.

[mb]

The non-channeling Talents (Foretelling, Dreaming, Dreamwalking) I guess the people would be born with.

Only channelers can Foretell, so it's a channeling related Talent.

 

The Encyclopaedia site says that Foretelling is closely linked with Dreaming, and Dreaming is a non-channeling Talent.  Nothing I read so far tells that a non-channeler cannot have the Talent.

 

[Luckers]

In Moiraine's letter to Rand, she implies that she knew about  Asmodean.  When did she find out?  And how come she uses the alias instead of actual name if the words were going to fade anyway?

 

She knew because she had been using the power to evesdrop on Rand and Asmodean whilst they were having their lessons--we see this from Egwene's point of view when she goes to tell Moiraine that Siuan has been deposed.

 

And as for why she uses the alias--because she is a Cairhienien Blue, and for her there is never too much secrecy--for instance, what if Rand unknowingly opened the letter whilst someone was reading over his shoulder.

 

Alanna at Dumai's Wells battle had perfect right to fight since Rand was her warder.  Why did she not fight?  I suspect she wanted the bond to be secret.

 

He was not, as far as she was aware, in direct physical danger from the Aiel. Aside frome which though, the Aes Sedai had they chose could have invoked the oaths in reference to the Tower Aes Sedai being attacked by the Shaido--they didn't, in part likely because they wanted to get to Rand, and in part likely because it never occured to them.

 

 

Seeing Taveren is a channel related Talent.  Since Siuan and Logan were severed ones that had the Talent, did they regain it when they were Healed?

Also, is that Talent someone is born with or is it someone can develop?

 

They did--RJ stated this directly. He also said whilst they were severed they lost the ability. And the Talent becomes active as soon as they start channeling.

 

Is it? Wasn't there an Ogier female (an Elder I think) who could slightly see Taveren?

 

Seeing ta'veren is a channeling talent amongst humans--Alar, who actually states that she does not have the talent herself, implies that amongst Ogier it is very weak--this is seemingly a different talent than the human version, though with the same effects.

 

when Rand first thinks he's killed the DO he says his real name and nothing happens. nothing at all, not even a little shaking ground or thickening of the air.

i don't believe that the DO's effect would be weaker just because Rand injured a few Forsaken

 

Rand's final power aquisition syndrome was empty headedness. This would be the cause for him to have missed that sensation.

 

The Encyclopaedia site says that Foretelling is closely linked with Dreaming, and Dreaming is a non-channeling Talent.  Nothing I read so far tells that a non-channeler cannot have the Talent.

 

The Encyclopaedia is incorrect in this instance--not without reason, Anaiya directly states that Foretelling is closely linked with Dreaming. She too was wrong, however. Foretelling and Dreaming are completely different unrelated talents--RJ clarified this (and, incidently at the same time stated that Dreaming and Dreamwalking are also two completely seperate and distinct Talents). Only channelers can have the Foretelling, but anyone can Dream or Dreamwalk.

 

One wonders if the ability to enter the place between TAR and the real world, the place where dreams are, is yet a third Talent? Possibly not given the 'stepping' sensation is the same as with entering the dream--though possibly yes, since some dream ter'angreal allow access to that place, yet others do not.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

The non-channeling Talents (Foretelling, Dreaming, Dreamwalking) I guess the people would be born with.

Only channelers can Foretell, so it's a channeling related Talent.

The Encyclopaedia site says that Foretelling is closely linked with Dreaming, and Dreaming is a non-channeling Talent.  Nothing I read so far tells that a non-channeler cannot have the Talent.

Then read this, and the problem is solved:

Those with the Foretelling know that certain events will happen; that these events are firmly set into the fabric of the Pattern, although the Foretellers simply do not know when and how. Foretelling has often been erroneously considered a type of Dreaming, but it cannot be called at will, and some with the Talent only have one or two visions in their entire lifetime. Foretelling is also linked to the Power (only those who can channel may have the Foretelling), but Dreaming and Dreamwalking are not connected to the ability to channel.

 

- The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time

[mb]

About a channeler not able to do channeling on self, what if a channeler could suspend the weaves in air then the channeler use Air to pull the weaves to self?  Or what if there was some material that weaves could bounce from and the channeler aim the weaves at the material so that they hit self?

 

If Min were to look into a mirror, would she be able to see Viewings about herself?

 

In Lord of Chaos, Alanna tells there was like 200 men at the Black Tower; how did she know?  I doubt it was through her Warder bond on Rand since Elayne was not able to know the conversation of when Birgitte was talking to Mat.  And I doubt she was close enough to eavesdrop with the One Power.

 

[Ndshacker]

you mean like a pulley. If oyu were to fasten air around you, send it up as a cord and make it into a pulley. The tied it off. Then you used another piece of air to pull on it... would you go up? you are not technicly using the one power to pull yourself up. you are using it to pull on a rope.

 

[ROB_88]

If Min were to look into a mirror, would she be able to see Viewings about herself?

 

i highly doubt it. she has said before that except the vision about her falling in love with Rand she has never seen any wiewing about herself

[Ndshacker]

Maybe she's never looked in a mirror while a vision was there?

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Maybe she's never looked in a mirror while a vision was there?

Unlikely.

 

When she looks at warders and their Aes Sedai she sees a constant flickering halo of images.

 

Given who she is and what she gets up to, I'd imagine that that'd be the case with her too.

[ChronoCrosS]

Maybe she's never looked in a mirror while a vision was there?

Unlikely.

 

When she looks at warders and their Aes Sedai she sees a constant flickering halo of images.

 

Given who she is and what she gets up to, I'd imagine that that'd be the case with her too.

 

I would think that she is less important in the Pattern than a Taveren and perhaps many aes sedai. Is it possible that the auras around her appear infrequently and so she just never happens to have a mirror around when they do appear?

[mb]

A number of questions that have not been answered (with other comments)::

 

It was said that 13 dreadlords channeling through 13 myrddraal could force a channeler to the Dark.  Can these numbers be made less with angreal and/or with sa'angreal?

Is there a method for forcing someone to the Light?  If so, what is it?

 

Rand capturing Asmodean I would not count toward those last 2 questions.

 

 

When making angreal and sa'angreal, is there a correlation between how much of the One Power a channeler can hold and the amount of the One Power used to make it?  Also, can ones for saidin be made only by saidin channelers; and ones for saidar, only by saidar channelers?

Channeling required ter'angreal, is there a correlation between the amount of the One Power required and the amount of the One Power used to make it?  Also, can ones that require saidin be made only by saidin channelers; and ones that require saidar, only by saidar channelers?

 

Would the answers also apply to Wells?

 

 

About a channeler not able to do channeling on self, what if a channeler could suspend the weaves in air then the channeler use Air to pull the weaves to self?  Or what if there was some material that weaves could bounce from and the channeler aim the weaves at the material so that they hit self?

 

Or what if the channeler does a gateway to some place directly behind self and direct the flows through it?

 

 

In Lord of Chaos, Alanna tells there was like 200 men at the Black Tower; how did she know?  I doubt it was through her Warder bond on Rand since Elayne was not able to know the conversation of when Birgitte was talking to Mat.  And I doubt she was close enough to eavesdrop with the One Power.

 

Though I now think there might have been a chance for her to come close enough to see.

 

[Majsju]

A number of questions that have not been answered (with other comments)::

 

It was said that 13 dreadlords channeling through 13 myrddraal could force a channeler to the Dark.  Can these numbers be made less with angreal and/or with sa'angreal?

Is there a method for forcing someone to the Light?  If so, what is it?

 

Rand capturing Asmodean I would not count toward those last 2 questions.

 

The requirement of having myrdraal involved in the process strongly implicates that TP somehow is involved, which makes the process unreachable for the Light.

Also, forcing someone to the Light kinda goes against everything the Light is supposed to stand for ;D

 

When making angreal and sa'angreal, is there a correlation between how much of the One Power a channeler can hold and the amount of the One Power used to make it?  Also, can ones for saidin be made only by saidin channelers; and ones for saidar, only by saidar channelers?

Channeling required ter'angreal, is there a correlation between the amount of the One Power required and the amount of the One Power used to make it?  Also, can ones that require saidin be made only by saidin channelers; and ones that require saidar, only by saidar channelers?

 

Would the answers also apply to Wells?

 

It does make sense that Wells should follow similar rules to angreal and sa'angreal.

 

About a channeler not able to do channeling on self, what if a channeler could suspend the weaves in air then the channeler use Air to pull the weaves to self?  Or what if there was some material that weaves could bounce from and the channeler aim the weaves at the material so that they hit self?

 

Or what if the channeler does a gateway to some place directly behind self and direct the flows through it?

 

I strongly doubt it works that way. No matter how you bounce the flows around, they still originate from someone.

 

In Lord of Chaos, Alanna tells there was like 200 men at the Black Tower; how did she know?  I doubt it was through her Warder bond on Rand since Elayne was not able to know the conversation of when Birgitte was talking to Mat.  And I doubt she was close enough to eavesdrop with the One Power.

 

Though I now think there might have been a chance for her to come close enough to see.

 

 

Aes Sedai are quite (in)famous for having the best eyes&ears networks in the world. Once the Black Tower started to be something more than 4-5 scared peasants, it would have attracted spies, and Alanna probably heard from one of them.

[vasu619]

You know what? Making a gateway right behind yourself sounds awesome! Then I can get rid of that annoying itch on my back >.>

[mb]

When using the Bowl of the Winds, Elayne sees saidin in addition to saidar.  Where did the saidin come from and how was Elayne able to detect it?

 

Can a Warder and the one that holds their bond know each other's dreams?

 

When Elayne and Aviendha become first sisters, was the channeling during the questions Compulsion?

That last channeling the Encyclopaedia site tells is something like the Warder bond.

 

[D24g0n]

When using the Bowl of the Winds, Elayne sees saidin in addition to saidar.  Where did the saidin come from and how was Elayne able to detect it?

Its been awhile, but I believe she just saw saidar weaving together with something, and figured it was saidin.  I think it was said that the saidin came from the bowl itself.

[Hybrid]

When using the Bowl of the Winds, Elayne sees saidin in addition to saidar.  Where did the saidin come from and how was Elayne able to detect it?

Its been awhile, but I believe she just saw saidar weaving together with something, and figured it was saidin.  I think it was said that the saidin came from the bowl itself.

Yeah, it was like Egwene seeing the ward around Callandor - she could tell there was something invisible present and therefore it was saidin.  The Bowl itself was drawing on saidin.

[vasu619]

But Moiraine says that things cannot have the power. How can an object draw on the power, unless someone is making it?

[Nightstrike]

But Moiraine says that things cannot have the power. How can an object draw on the power, unless someone is making it?

Maybe it's one of those "standing flows" that someone was talking about (was it Graendal?)? Moiraine could be misinformed...

[Luckers]

Quote

Quote from: mb on November 18, 2008, 02:58:01 PM

In Lord of Chaos, Alanna tells there was like 200 men at the Black Tower; how did she know?  I doubt it was through her Warder bond on Rand since Elayne was not able to know the conversation of when Birgitte was talking to Mat.  And I doubt she was close enough to eavesdrop with the One Power.

 

Though I now think there might have been a chance for her to come close enough to see.

 

 

 

Aes Sedai are quite (in)famous for having the best eyes&ears networks in the world. Once the Black Tower started to be something more than 4-5 scared peasants, it would have attracted spies, and Alanna probably heard from one of them.

 

Indeed, its directly stated Alanna found that out from one of her eyes and ears--a butcher, I believe. Possibly the same individual Alviarin cites as having counted the food carts that were going to the Black Tower--as i recall he was a green eyes and ears--may be wrong about that though, don't have my books on me. Makes sense for a butcher to have some inkling into that though.

 

Furthermore, Pevara directly states that there are eyes and ears within the Black Tower, just no Red ones within Taims servants.

 

When using the Bowl of the Winds, Elayne sees saidin in addition to saidar.  Where did the saidin come from and how was Elayne able to detect it?

 

The bowl drew the saidin--it also drew saidar by the way, beyond what was being channeled into it. As for how Elayne detected it--she says it clearly, she sees saidar bend strangely around something that wasn't there, and realises that it must be saidin.

 

Can a Warder and the one that holds their bond know each other's dreams?

 

Not by any description we've heard--and we have some directly of bonded people dreaming.

 

When Elayne and Aviendha become first sisters, was the channeling during the questions Compulsion?

 

The did not seem to be compelled in any way--far more it seemed that with their inclination to be honest with each other the binding became stronger. It was not the weave that compelled the answers, it was their willingness to answer that strengthened the weave.

 

But Moiraine says that things cannot have the power. How can an object draw on the power, unless someone is making it?

 

She was giving a simplistic lesson to a girl who was not as yet even a novice--and as far as she went she was technically correct--these objects do not have the power, in and of themselves as Egwene assumed when she said that Moiraine's staff was very powerful. They are not naturally imbued--they were set to cause specific actions following specific ques set by livivng channelers.

 

That sort of sublety in terminology is beyond a country girl so new to the power, so Moiraine kept it simple.

 

She was however, technically correct. Objects do not have the power, but they can be set by a living mind to draw upon it in specific controlled ways.

 

Maybe it's one of those "standing flows" that someone was talking about (was it Graendal?)? Moiraine could be misinformed...

 

Mesaana told that to Alviarin. The standing flows so far as we know were tied off weaves set upon every ter'angreal so that they could be used by anyone whether they had the power or not. This is different to the ter'angreal drawing upon the power by itself once activated.

 

Moiraine was not wrong--she was just not overcomplicating things beyond Egwene's understanding. And Moiraine was more than aware of ter'angreal being able to draw upon the source by themselves--even assuming such knowledge wasn't common, she knew of the doorway ter'angreal in tear.

 

 

[Tyrell]

While we are talking about Saidin and Saidar, when a man and a woman are linked can everyone / whoever is in control see both types of flows? I'm not sure if it is ever specifically stated, but it seems that you must be able to see what you're weaving in order to weave it.

[Pixiedragon]

I think we'd have to use the description given when Rand and Nynaeve are linked to clean the taint, but I don't have access to my books at the moment so I can't look it up.

Wasn't it that Rand can actually touch Saidar through Nynaeve? While Nynaeve was still unable to see Saidin.

[ROB_88]

that might be an extension to the fact that Rand can feel when someone uses Saidar through goosebumps, but the Aes Sedai can not, except by usimg a special weave