Questions about the doorframe ter'angreal

[Mashiara Sedai]

When Mat goes into the ter'angreal in the Stone of Tear (tSR P. 252), after Mat asks his first question, the Aelfinns' "eyes lifted from him--reluctantly, it seemed--and studied the air above his head."

 

That sounds very much like what Min does when she "sees" people.  Could her ability to see the pattern have anything to do with the Aelfinn?

 

Also (p 255) when Rand emerges from the doorframe with "that fiery sword in his hands."  He's channelling while exiting the ter'angreal.  When Moiraine and Lanfear go through the other while channelling, they are both stilled and the doorframe melts.  How does this make sense?

 

 

~Mashiara

[Luckers]

That sounds very much like what Min does when she "sees" people.  Could her ability to see the pattern have anything to do with the Aelfinn?

 

Haha. It was once a very popular theory that Min's unknown mother was one of the Aelfinn--but RJ put the kaboom to it a while back. Min's veiwings are a normal human ability that appears from time to time during the turning of the wheel (like wolfbrotherhood) and have nothing to do with the Aelfinn.

 

Also (p 255) when Rand emerges from the doorframe with "that fiery sword in his hands."  He's channelling while exiting the ter'angreal.  When Moiraine and Lanfear go through the other while channelling, they are both stilled and the doorframe melts.  How does this make sense?

 

They were channeling wildly whilst clawing an angreal back and forther between them and entering the door two at the same time--Rand was channeling in a small and controlled manner whilst stepping through the door.

[ksbsnowowl]

They were channeling wildly whilst clawing an angreal back and forther between them and entering the door two at the same time--Rand was channeling in a small and controlled manner whilst stepping through the door.

As a side note, it may be worth mentioning that it has previously been pointed out that at that point Rand was still channeling mostly on instinct, thus why he did not have apparent difficulty weaving in 'finn-land despite its awkward geometric properties.  This same 'weaving by instinct' may also account for his lack of difficulty maintaining the weave while passing through the ter'angreal, and thus maintaining a weave between two areas of disparate geometry.  (Though I'm not sure that maintaining a weave would be difficult in 'finn-land, as opposed to merely weaving it in the first place.)

[Kaznen]

Fire is not the first power a women would reach for.  And they entered the Finnland fighting.

 

The other Finns were trying to hustle Rand out.  He used his sword to protect himself and it is made of fire..."fire to blind."

[lordofsoup]

i really want to know how they save moraine, will thom and Noal get wishes?  and what happens to Mat

 

couldent the Finns give Rand his hand, pure body, and sight back?

 

it also seems like caduasane should go to the ter'angreal in tear to find out about rand, or at least Raand should send someone to ask questions for him. 

 

[Mr Ares]

i really want to know how they save moraine, will thom and Noal get wishes?  and what happens to Mat

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

 

couldent the Finns give Rand his hand, pure body, and sight back?

Possibly, if he went to them. We know there are limits on their powers. We know one of those limits is that their powers cannot affect the outside world at all.

[EMZ]

Also, when Mat, Rand and Moraine come out of the doorframe, they had a conversation. She said something about "question´s about the shadow" are punished, or something to that effect. So when she and Lanfear went through the doorway, I think they killed Lanfear on GP, and held Moraine for whatever reason, possibly because she was injured, or it´s also possible that when the doorframe melted she couldn´t leave. And that it´s going to be a big to-do when they go get her.

 

I´m looking forward to her return.

 

 

[Martele dAcre]

i really want to know how they save moraine, will thom and Noal get wishes?  and what happens to Mat

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

Do the Eelfinn need a reason?

 

I do not recall that being revealed. Was it something RJ said/posted?

 

[Hybrid]

i really want to know how they save moraine, will thom and Noal get wishes?  and what happens to Mat

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

Do the Eelfinn need a reason?

 

I do not recall that being revealed. Was it something RJ said/posted?

 

 

RJ did not specifically say that Mat would lose an eye in an interview or the books.  It can deduced from various viewings, dreams, prophecies, and the fact that Mat was partially based on Odin.

[Luckers]

I think she was referring more to the idea of the Eelfinn needing a reason to grant wishes.

 

Martele the finns are not fairies, bound by the nature of their magic into serving humans or anything of the sort, they are a seperate race that, due to a negotiated trade deal with humans offer an aspect of their abilities in exchange for a pre-specified price.

 

Effectively its a trading treaty. And in answer to your question it shows that the finns do require a reason before they offer humans the gains of their abilities--specifically that reason being what they get from doing it. It's ye old basic bartering.

 

Now, the treaty only covers the use of the doorway ter'angreal, and even that has been severed. Those entering through the Tower of Genjei are not covered by it. Furthermore, they would not have anything to trade that the finns could not merely take by force. You don't offer money for what you can take whenever you want.

 

As such it does seem highly unlikely that the finns will offer any of Mat's rescue team wishes or answers.

[Hybrid]

I agree with Luckers' post.  The 'Finns are not benevolent, as shown by Mat's experience in Rhuidean and also his and Rand's experiences in Tear (I know Rand didn't have a POV, but he backed out of the door with a fire sword).

 

Btw, Martele, if you were talking about the 'Finns and not Mat losing an eye, my bad.  I reread your post and I'm not sure which you meant now.

[lordofsoup]

i really want to know how they save moraine, will thom and Noal get wishes?  and what happens to Mat

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

Do the Eelfinn need a reason?

 

I do not recall that being revealed. Was it something RJ said/posted?

 

 

they should take Rand instead of Noal, cuz Rand can kick some major butt, i think the finns feed off giving wishes and telling prophecies, because when Mat is in there they seem to love it

[Hybrid]

i think the finns feed off giving wishes and telling prophecies, because when Mat is in there they seem to love it

 

I think they actually feed off memories and emotions or something of the sort.  They give wishes or tell prophecies in exchange for that.  Moiraine explained something of the sort in TSR:

Sensations, emotions, experiences. They rummage through them; you can feel them doing it, making your skin crawl. Perhaps they feed on them in some manner. The Aes Sedai who studied this ter'angreal... spoke of a strong desire to bathe afterward

Though, Moiraine has been wrong before.

[vasu619]

i really want to know how they save moraine, will thom and Noal get wishes?  and what happens to Mat

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

Do the Eelfinn need a reason?

 

I do not recall that being revealed. Was it something RJ said/posted?

 

 

they should take Rand instead of Noal, cuz Rand can kick some major butt, i think the finns feed off giving wishes and telling prophecies, because when Mat is in there they seem to love it

 

They can't take Rand because Moiraine's letter says something like "you, mat and one I do not know". Rand is hardly someone who Moiraine does not know.

[balefireruinssteaks]

It seems like it will be Mat, Thom and Noal (who Moiraine has not met)

 

I don't think there would be enough time to introduce another character, develop that character and then send him on his way to rescue Moiraine.

[Ahaz Flagg]

  This will also give Noal a chance to redeem himself for being a dupe for Ishy.

[lordofsoup]

or they could send Logain or another Asha man

 

or Rand could stand outside and say give me Moraine or I will kill all of you

[Luckers]

Or they could do nothing of the sort, because if they dead Moiraine ends up dead. This is a fact.

 

 

[Ahaz Flagg]

or they could send Logain or another Asha man

 

or Rand could stand outside and say give me Moraine or I will kill all of you

 

Mat has not met any Asha'Men, how do propse that he suddenly runs into an Asha'Man, considering he will already be on the way to the Tower of Genji?  The three will be Mat, Thom and Noal.  And since we know one will die for certian, Noal makes the most sense.

[a pale tanned lover]

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

 

We know Mat loses half the light of the world to save the world, i took this to mean him marrying Tuon, helping unite the Seanchan behind Rand and then after TG going back with Tuon to Seanchan, thus losing half the light of the world, tho i can see how many people believe he will lose an eye.

 

Mat has not met any Asha'Men, how do propse that he suddenly runs into an Asha'Man, considering he will already be on the way to the Tower of Genji?  The three will be Mat, Thom and Noal.  And since we know one will die for certian, Noal makes the most sense.

 

I must have missed this, where does it say one will die for certain? i thought there was a varity of different endings depending on who goes and that all or even none might survive

[Ahaz Flagg]

APTL, I am going on memory, but i am pretty certian that in Moraines letter, that she says one will die. but that is my memory, i do not have books at work to run and look.

[triadruid]

If you try, it must be only you and Mat and one other. More will mean death for all. Fewer will mean death for all. Even if you come only with Mat and one other, death also may come. I have seen you try and die, one or two or all three. I have seen myself die in the attempt. I have seen all of us live and die as captives.

[Ndshacker]

I think Mat will gamble his wa y out

[deathbypancake]

 

it also seems like caduasane should go to the ter'angreal in tear to find out about rand, or at least Raand should send someone to ask questions for him. 

 

 

Frivolous questions are punished, and weather it is frivolous or not is partially determined by who asks them. I would speculate that anyone asking questions for another person would be punished on the grounds of frivolity. The only people that would seriously need the answers of questions rand needs to know would be people close to him, i.e. Min, and Rand would never risk sending them in there, because surely anything rand needs to know touches the shadow, and he would not risk allowing anybody he knows to ask a question that may harm them on his behalf.

 

Speculation: The same rules about forbidden objects and such are the same in both the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn domains... are the consequences about frivolousness and the shadow the same as well? If once made a wish regarding the DO, would they be punished, as well as making a wish for another person?

[MsDanya]

I very much doubt any of them will be given "wishes". What reason do the Eelfinn have to bargain with them? As for what happens to Mat, he loses an eye. That's all we know.

 

We know Mat loses half the light of the world to save the world, i took this to mean him marrying Tuon, helping unite the Seanchan behind Rand and then after TG going back with Tuon to Seanchan, thus losing half the light of the world, tho i can see how many people believe he will lose an eye.

 

That one actually coems from a Dream Egwene had at some point. She dreamt of Thom and MAt sitting around a fireplace, Thom pulling Moiraines blue stone out of the fire and Mat placing his eye on a balance scale.. Either its two seperate dreams, or the same one, Idont remember, but its taken as their attemt of rescuing Moiraine, and also Mat losing his eye in the process. I also take it as Thom playing the biggest part of the rescue, maybe finding Moiraine while Mat just distracts them or something of that sort....