Something Cadsuane said

[metallicafan08]

Okay i can't remember what book this was in or even where Cadsuane was at the time but during one of her POV's I think shes thinking about helping Rand (maybe the whole laughter an tears thing?) and she mentions that something shes gotta do could be the most important thing regarding the LB? She then goes onto say something along the lines of "It could almost be as important as that trip she made into the mountains of mist(?) all those years ago" it was something to do with visiting a family or an old lady in some middle of nowhere hut? This has always stuck in my mind that Cadsuane did something back then that wouldn't seem like a big thing to the casual observer but actually was something that monumentally affected the way things turned out and life in Randland would have been completely different without it. I know i have no quotes and very little information on this subject but i was hoping that someone who had read the books more times than i have could tell me what that comment was all about or any theories about it? I hope someone out there knows what i'm babbling about lol

[Nateku]

I think she's talking about the Black Hills. That's where that one old wilder lady lived who taught Cadsuane before she went to the White Tower. Maybe when she went back was when she earned the right to all of her hair net ter'angreal and angreal. I guess that's pretty important in itself because she's now using those items to help Rand.

 

Didn't really answer your question, just speculation/additional info. xD

[MsDanya]

I thought she went back there after she became AS? Cause she was all cocky in her new shawl, and the old lady in the hut taught her about the Power and stuff. I think she rambles about it in NS.

[metallicafan08]

Cheers guys, I just remember reading that part and thinking it maybe of some importance. I'm only on my 3rd read-through and haven't gotten back to that bit yet. Theres so many little seemingly insignificant things that RJ drops in that i try to pick up on anything that maybe of some importance.

[Paviel]

That's one great thing about the Wheel of Time: You CANNOT pick up every single detail on the first reading; the series demands to be reread. And reread. And reread.

 

I don't think this community would be around if it didn't.

[Charlz Guybon]

I think she's talking about the Black Hills. That's where that one old wilder lady lived who taught Cadsuane before she went to the White Tower. Maybe when she went back was when she earned the right to all of her hair net ter'angreal and angreal. I guess that's pretty important in itself because she's now using those items to help Rand.

 

Didn't really answer your question, just speculation/additional info. xD

 

Not exactly. She ran into this wilder after gaining the shawl. She was pretty full of her self at the time, being the storngest Aes Sedai since the War of a Hundred Years. But this toothless old wilder was stronger and/or more skilled. She basically beat Caddy into submission and took her on as an apprentice. It was during this apprenticeship that Caddy earned her ter'angreal.

[GrandpaG]

And more importantly, the old woman showed her how to shed the three oaths.

 

Doesn't it strike anybody strange that all of the other Aes Sedai expect the poor old woman to be dead because she is so old?  Duh.  Proves Egwene's point about the oath rod shortening a channeler's life span.

 

Whether the old woman talked Caddy into joining the Black Ajah or not is not important to me...I'm convinced that she somehow found a way to undo the three oaths which left her free to do things in her own way.

 

Remember when Verin was going to poison Caddy in the town where they couldn't channel?  I haven't figured out yet why she didn't continue, but I suspect that she caught Caddy telling a lie and figured out that she no longer was bound by the oaths but didn't know if she was BA or not.

 

Just speculation, as usual.

[Tyrell]

I don't think Cadsuane would be grey haired yet if she weren't bound. She's nearing 300, but as strong as she is she would likely live significantly longer if she'd been unbound and look rather younger at this time.

 

Oh and she looks Ageless. I'm fairly certain someone would have mentioned it if she didn't have the look.

[MsDanya]

Yeah, I agree. I think she's jsut been AS for so long, and travelled around so much thats she's become an expert in finding loopholes in the oaths. RJ kept saying that AS could evade and "lie" as much as anyone, they just had to be more subtle about it I guess.

[Mr Ares]

And more importantly, the old woman showed her how to shed the three oaths.

No, she didn't. Cadsuane is still bound.

 

Doesn't it strike anybody strange that all of the other Aes Sedai expect the poor old woman to be dead because she is so old?

Cadsuane is near the upper limit for bound Aes Sedai lifespan. She thinks she hasn't got long left to live. 

 

Whether the old woman talked Caddy into joining the Black Ajah or not is not important to me...I'm convinced that she somehow found a way to undo the three oaths which left her free to do things in her own way.

She did neither. Cadsuane is still bound and not BA.

 

Remember when Verin was going to poison Caddy in the town where they couldn't channel? I haven't figured out yet why she didn't continue, but I suspect that she caught Caddy telling a lie and figured out that she no longer was bound by the oaths but didn't know if she was BA or not.

No. She decides against poisoning her right after she tells her that she plans to see Rand safe to TG, she doesn't care what he does provided this comes to pass, and he learns to laugh and cry again. Neither woman is BA. Neither woman has lied in the series. Cadsuane is bound. She is also not going to control Rand, and how much of what Verin does has had the effect of diminishing the ability of others to control Rand?

 

Just speculation, as usual.

Just shooting down speculation, as usual.

[Roxinos]

Neither woman has lied in the series.

 

Is not there still speculation on why Verin said that she was sent by Moiraine in The Great Hunt?

 

My memory is unclear on this topic.

[Hybrid]

Neither woman has lied in the series.

 

Is not there still speculation on why Verin said that she was sent by Moiraine in The Great Hunt?

 

My memory is unclear on this topic.

 

If my memory is correct, the most valid theory I've heard has to do with the Moiraine-Siuan-Verin scheming scene earlier.  Moiraine says something about wishing to have someone there to guide Rand.  Siuan and Moiraine are busy, so Verin could interpret the task as falling to her by default.  I don't have my copy of TGH with me, so could someone acknowledge/refute that with quotes?

[Luckers]

But yeah, that 'lie' is still problematic. Verin's still not a black sister.

 

Also if it helps to the original poster, Cadsuane wasn't thinking of Rand when she thought about Norla (that was the wilders name). She was thinking about Nynaeve. Specifically she thinks that Nynaeve still needs to learn the lesson that 'what must be endured, can be endured'. She feels sympathy for Nynaeve because not every woman could learn that in the Tower, and that she herself had learnt it in the Black Hills from Norla.

 

It's not technically vital to the Last Battle, but Cadsuane rates it as a very important lesson, and states it as such.

[Mr Ares]

Neither woman has lied in the series.

Is not there still speculation on why Verin said that she was sent by Moiraine in The Great Hunt?

 

My memory is unclear on this topic.

Perhaps I should have said, there is no clear cut example of Verin lying, and no example at all of Cadsuane lying. The answer Hybrid gives is the best. It falls within the remit of Aes Sedai truth twisting - just. As far as we can tell Verin, though very mysterious, is still bound. She is certainly not BA.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Re Verin saying Moiraine sent her, that isnt technically a lie. As TheBigEyeAm said on another thread, all it takes for Verin to say that is for Moiraine to have sent Verin somewhere once, however far back. You see, the Oaths mean you cant lie on purpose, yet if you school your thoughts to form a truth in your mind, you can say it whatever context it might be taken in.

 

Example.

 

Moiraine: Could you nip to the shop, Verin? We need some milk.

 

Five million years later, at whatever scene it is that Verin turns up.

 

Perrin (or whoever): What are you doing here, Verin?

 

Verin: (Thinks to herself of that time Moiraine sent her to the shop). Moiraine sent me. (Think to herself of any Aes Sedai who said Rand and co might need Verins help). She thought you might need my help.

 

Nothing in that passage is a lie, its just speaking about a different incedent without specifying to whoever youre talking to.

[trakand_01]

Re the original topic and Cadsuane in the Black Hills, I've just recently read a passage of Caddy's POV where she says something about not having been that shocked since that first day back in the hills all those years ago. She also remarks that she still doesnt know what two of the fish and one of the - something else - ter'angreal in her hair do - if she EARNED them with this woman, how comes she doesnt know what three of them DO?

 

To my mind, if she say, won a 'battle' or a lesson with the woman, and she gave her one of the angreal, she would say "Well done, Cadsuane, you have learnt xxxxx - this angreal is a well, it will allow you to channel inside areas where you are cut off from the Power" and so on, not "here's an angreal. I'm not telling you what it does, but it looks pretty..."??

[Luckers]

Well, she states that she 'began earning them', as in it took place over time. There are two easy reasons Cadsuane doesn't know what two of her fish and one of her crescent moons does--one, Norla died before she told Cadsuane, and two that Norla never knew herself. Cadsuane's ter'angreal were made during the Breaking, and as such Norla either found them herself, or had them handed down--information can be lost, or remain undiscovered either way.

 

 

[GrandpaG]

You know that little voice that you get that tells you "you'd better be careful" and if you listen everything is OK but if you ignore it something bad happens?  My little voice tells me to be weary of Caddy.  I don't know WHY the voice tells me that.  It's just gut instinct.  "There's something rotten in Denmark".  I don't know what is causing the stink, but I can smell it all the way over here in Michigan!  Maybe it's the company she keeps?  Maybe its her way of looking in a lap mirror to trick you into thinking she has eyes in the back of her head?  Maybe it's her commanding demeanor?  Maybe it's how she seems to appear where she should not be?  And, what did she do in years past to become a legend among Aes Sedai...the most untrustworthy creatures in all of Randland?  I get the idea that they fear her...if they do, maybe I should be careful around her, too?  I don't know.  I can't put my finger on anything specific.  I know she is very important to Rand and company, and I know Min said she will teach him a lesson that I assume he needs to learn or Min would have been warning him to steer clear of her, right?  Somewhere, way in the back of my mind, that little voice tells me to "be very careful around Cadsuane" and keep a sharp eye on her with an open escape route carefully planned and in full sight.  Just my opinion.

 

 

edit:

 

This might sound crazy, but I can almost feel my fear of Caddy just by writing this post.  RJ did a remarkable job of painting her into my mind.  This is a CREEPY feeling!  Don't anybody sneak up behind me and say BOO right now...I might jump out of my nice, new comfy chair!!!  :o

 

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It's not real...it's only a story...it's not real...it's only a story...it's not real...

[trakand_01]

I know what you mean, but being the suspicious cynic I am, I can't help but think Caddy is the safe one, it's Verin we need to be careful of.

[GrandpaG]

Verin should have been Blue ajah.

 

Sure, she likes wierd stuff like live owls in her room and skulls and reading Trolloc gaffitti and all, but I think she has a manipulative meddling side that overshadows her love of knowledge.  Like brainwashing all of the sisters being held by the Aiel.  And sticking her nose into Moraine and Siuan's business at Fal Dara.  Following Perrin.  Showing up in the Two Rivers (thank the creator) to fight trollocs with Alanna (what were they really doing there to begin with, anyway?).  Why would a Brown sister make that trip to Far Madding?  There was a thread about her 70 year old plan/plot.  She might be a Brown on the surface, but I think it's just a cover for her being a Blue at heart.  I'm not afraid of Verin the way I am of Cadsuane, though.  Maybe it's because Verin isn't so openly...can't find the right word...dictatorial?  Oppressive?  I know...we should be thankful that Caddy helped Rand at the ranch in Tear and at the cleansing and that she is really trying to "guide him in the right direction"...but, something makes me trust her as much as I would a pet rattlesnake.

[trakand_01]

Haha how wonderful if it transpired that Verin actually WAS blue, with Siuan and Moiraine, and the Brown thing, the vacant looks, the books and everything, was actually all a pretense?

Just for the record - I'm not in the slightest suggesting this may be a logical idea!!

 

Has she ever SAID to anyone 'I'm of the Brown Ajah'?

[GrandpaG]

Just noticed your siggy Trakand 01...sounds like song lyrics.

 

A soul mate is special, indeed.

Even among married people, especially nowadays, a real soul mate is rare.

I wish you true luck on your quest.

In my role as gleeman, please let me offer you some sagely advice:

Don't try to force it to happen...let it happen by itself.

What is meant to be will be...what is not meant to be should not be encouraged...que sera, sera.

"Be patient and good things will be yours...get in a hurry and you will own a great pile of useless junk."  -- a GrandpaG original created just for Trakand 01...October 14, 2008 (is it that date already?  :o)  :)

[trakand_01]

Oh FANK YOO! That's lovely  ;D

 

It is song lyrics actually, it's Alanis Morrisette's 'All I Really Want', but I liked that particular extract  :)