Egewene and Elayne.Ta'veren?

[maximuswynn]

I know this might be stupid, but actually it's not really a question, but more of a inqusitorial realization. Egwene and Elayne have accomplished much and chance has helped them many times, but I know they're not ta'veren, at least I think they're not, otherwise Nicola would've seen something. But isn't it cool how much they get done? As if they were mini-ta'veren or something. That always amazed me, how chance worked for them. Gimme your thoughts.

[Majsju]

Both are very intelligent, strongwilled and have quite a bit of experience for their youth. Add to that that both of them are closely connected to one of the strongest ta'veren since the AOL. I would be more surprised if they did not accomplish a lot.

[Sieve]

but I know they're not ta'veren, at least I think they're not, otherwise Nicola would've seen something.

 

Min spent considerable time with each and read them, she did not mention either of them being Ta'veren in her viewings.  They have been quite lucky up 'til now, especially Elaine who has relied on Min's viewing too often when facing danger.  She assumes that nothing can happen to her.  Perhaps one or both of them will not be so lucky in AMOL.

[Ganth]

I would think Egwene would be ta'veren over Elayne. People are born with the innate ability to be ta'veren, I think I remember someone in the earlier books mentioning the Pattern makes someone ta'veren at a certain time. If I recall the three boys became ta'veren right before Moiraine and Lan arrived at the Two Rivers.

 

I'm assuming some of Rand, Perrin and Mat's ta'veren-ness rubs off on the closest threads surrounding them on the Pattern. Or maybe just Rand's because he's so powerful.

[Valinthros]

RJ Directly answered this question a while back stating that none of the main female characters are Ta'veren.  I dont have the quote, but I can dig it up if you need me to.  (Digging it up will take a little bit of time.)

[Cockta]

Oh, did he say why?

[Majsju]

I would think Egwene would be ta'veren over Elayne. People are born with the innate ability to be ta'veren, I think I remember someone in the earlier books mentioning the Pattern makes someone ta'veren at a certain time. If I recall the three boys became ta'veren right before Moiraine and Lan arrived at the Two Rivers.

 

 

I think you are confusing two things.

People are not born with an "innate ability" to be ta'veren. The Pattern makes people ta'veren when there is need, and it can be anyone as long as they are in the position needed to get the job done.

[callandor]

also, i think that siuan had the ability to see ta'veren, but im not sure. i think it was when she saw rand in fal dara. she probably would have commented on that...  8)

[Hybrid]

also, i think that siuan had the ability to see ta'veren, but im not sure. i think it was when she saw rand in fal dara. she probably would have commented on that...  8)

 

Yes.  That is how she picked him out of the crowd at Fal Dara.  "He blazed like the sun." I believe were her words.

[Gholam]

You know how ta'averen causes all the other "threads" of the pattern to change and revolve around the ta'averen.  This might explain their luck.

[Snowy Dawn]

``RJ Directly answered this question a while back stating that none of the main female characters are Ta'veren.''

 

Hm... What about one of the minor female characters? Candidates anyone?

[Guest Dreadlord]

Siuan and Logain can both recognise Ta'veren on sight. In EotW when Logain saw Rand, he later on describes Rand as "glowing" and also in TGH when Siuan is visiting Agelmar she says after the Welcoming that she knew Rand was the one they were after, because he "blazed like the sun." From the looks of it, while they both can see Ta'veren they dont seem to know it is Ta'veren making the glow.

 

As for other Ta'veren, I have always wondered if there were more than 3 Ta'veren. I am convinced that Masema is either a Darkfriend or Ta'veren

[Alderthal]

Nicola can see ta'verens, she saw Mat and knew him, but she didn't see any glow surrounding Egwene or Elayne or Nynaeve.

[Spirit1025]

Can't Loial recognize ta'veren also?

 

I have thought about the possibility with Egwene, since things often happen exactly the way she needs them to. But, you don't see the random twisting of chance with her like you do around Rand. People falling off roofs and surviving, whole villages getting married, people tripping over something and breaking their necks, etc. My conclusion was that Jordan just used a little creative license to keep his story moving the way he wanted it to go. But, the idea of Rand's luck rubbing off on them seems plausible too.

[Hybrid]

Can't Loial recognize ta'veren also?

No, but he can recognize the ta'veren effect.  He doesn't call Rand ta'veren until after Rand describes all the crazy events.

 

As for other Ta'veren, I have always wondered if there were more than 3 Ta'veren. I am convinced that Masema is either a Darkfriend or Ta'veren

I wonder at the same.  The Wheel's gonna need all the ta'veren it has to stop the Dark One.  Regarding Masema, I believe he is not a Darkfriend by choice, just a fanatic (possibly misguided).  I don't see any evidence of him being ta'veren.

[maximuswynn]

Cool discussions guys. I knew they weren't ta'veren, the facts were clear in that way. However, isn't it real cool how connections to so trong ta'veren affect chance for everyone near them? To me it seems so cool. I mean, Egwene the Amyrlin Seat, Elayne the Queen after an illegal attempt of usurping the throne by Arymilla. Truly in these facts you ackniowledge the great power and charisma of the late Creator.

[metallicafan08]

I've always thought it was kind of strange that all Ta'veren past and present that we've heard about have been men? Why do we not hear of female Ta'veren? Are they just really uncommon?

[Hybrid]

I don't know.  There's Rand, Mat, and Perrin.  Then we hear about Artur Hawkwing, but that's it, right?  There are likely more ta'veren, just not as well known.  Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Hawkwing, I think, were exceptionally strong as ta'veren.  Perhaps the first Amyrlin was ta'veren.

[lordofsoup]

i think they are more important to the pattern than most, but not to rand, mat, and perrin's degree.  in the 2 book, while fighting the seanchan, Rand says he feels some of the vital threads of his life being threatened.  Anyways, I think that people mentioned in the prophacies have to be taveren to some degree

[Guest Dreadlord]

In an explanation of Taveren effects, once it said that a Ta'veren pulls on the threads surrounding its own, causing the Ta'veren twists to affect nearby threads and then those threads pass it on, and it can keep going on and on. The stronger Ta'veren, the further it goes.

 

Rands Ta'veren twist had Egwene raised as Amyrlin if you ask me

[triadruid]

That takes a lot of agency away from Egwene, to me. I'd prefer to view it as a counterbalance by the Pattern/RJ on the relative dominance of women in the Third Age.

 

Or, simple sexism.

[GrandpaG]

I suggested this in a thread a long time ago.  The WoT experts tore it apart and concluded that the girls are not Ta'veren...they're simply talented and very lucky at the right times (destiny).

[Charlz Guybon]

I don't know.  There's Rand, Mat, and Perrin.  Then we hear about Artur Hawkwing, but that's it, right?  There are likely more ta'veren, just not as well known.  Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Hawkwing, I think, were exceptionally strong as ta'veren.  Perhaps the first Amyrlin was ta'veren.

 

Mabriam en Shereed, Queen of Aramaelle and Aes Sedai of the Grey Ajah. She was responsible for the foundation of the Compact of the Ten Nations.

 

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

[Hybrid]

I don't know.  There's Rand, Mat, and Perrin.  Then we hear about Artur Hawkwing, but that's it, right?  There are likely more ta'veren, just not as well known.  Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Hawkwing, I think, were exceptionally strong as ta'veren.  Perhaps the first Amyrlin was ta'veren.

 

Mabriam en Shereed, Queen of Aramaelle and Aes Sedai of the Grey Ajah. She was responsible for the foundation of the Compact of the Ten Nations.

 

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

 

There you go.

[ksbsnowowl]

Can't Loial recognize ta'veren also?

Loial cannot.  Loial has stated that Elder Hamman can recognize ta'veren though.