Where do warders stand?

[RAND AL THOR]

Where do warders stand?

 

Aren't they supposed to exist to defend their AS in situations where they may not use the One Power to defend themselves?

 

We see many of them being treated like servants. Carrying stuff etc...

 

Have they no lives of their own? Trailing their AS all the time? Their lives are worse than those of servants! An AS may just shut the door in the warder's face and he has to stay outside (as happens in Book 11-Mat's rampage).

 

I just feel that the worst guy you could be in WoT is a warder. No wonder males are looked down upon.....

[DuDZiK]

Which begs the question (one that was asked in the series by one of the Wonder Girls I believe...): Why on earth would a man ever agree to become a Warder?

 

I think it varies Warder to Warder; with Lan he acted like a servant to Moiraine, but it seemed like he did it to keep her as comfortable and as healthy/rested as possible, knowing that at any time she could have to use her powers and would need her energy. Yet others, especially those who are Warders to a Green, seem to be little more than glorified doormats with swords. And yet I also seem to recall hearing references to new Aes Sedai who become troublesome being assigned grizzled old Warders who control them more than the AS controls him. Ah! I remember, it was Brigitte talking about one of the AS who Egwene and co. read about in stories; and Brigitte's account were very much different than the stories.

[Avery]

Lan misrepresented to us what Warder are for/do, really. He's zealous about his duty, has impecible manners regarding women, and is arguably the best swordsman in Randland. I was shocked to the first time I saw a Warder run an errand or stand anywhere other than one step behind their Aes Sedai.

 

I bet Warders start off expecting adventure and excitement, then get stuck bonded to a White or a Brown.

[Asmo]

As Cadsuane puts it, Warders always get the poor end of the bargain. How they are treated depends on each individual Aes Sedai, but the nature of their duties leaves little room for freedom, really.

[RAND AL THOR]

I don't think any guy would go for that.

 

And yet they do....

[Silver]

Hey, maybe they're masochists.

[DuDZiK]

I don't think any guy would go for that.

 

And yet they do....

 

Don't people say the same thing of marriage? ::)

 

Joking aside, every Warder seems to have a reason to allowing himself to become one. We know Lan's, at least, and we know Rand's and what Gawyn's will be when and if he becomes Egwene's Warder. Now not all Warder's will have those kinds of reasons, but they will undoubtedly have one (or more).

[42Bonzo88]

    We also don't know much about Warders. Other than Lan, who we have very little in his opinion, we don't know what they are "given" for thier sacrafice. We know they don't have to sleep very much and I'm sure there are other things that I can't remember right now. But there has to be benefits that we're not seeing or there wouldn't be any warders at all.

    If their Aes Sedai is in the white tower, than they probably practice the sword and other weapons with thier fellow warders, or teach the students, like Galad and Gawyn in Book three. Good question. It makes me wonder.

[runner1]

Isn't one benefit for the Warders a longer life span than a normal person?

It makes sense channeling slows the aging process down, and while the Three Oat rod seems to cut that down a lot, the Aes Sedai of the White Tower still live longer lives than those who can't channel. 

I thought I read that somewhere, maybe I'm wrong...does anyone know?

[Guest Dreadlord]

There is nothing about a Warder living longer. The Warder gains enhanced endurance, can survive without food and water for long periods, doesnt need to rest much, and heal faster and better.

 

Its what the Aes Sedai gets that is the question. Apart from some reliable cannon fodder, Im sure they get some benefit from the bond. Are they able to draw strength from their Warder, or was that just a theory?

[Silver]

They are. It's possible to suck a warder dry but no Sedai would do that.

[Majsju]

Warders do not live longer than anyone else, but they do stay fit much longer.

[RAND AL THOR]

the Three Oat rod

 

;D

 

 

 

These benefit are all designed to help the warder serve his AS. Don't they have a LIFE?

 

Furthermore, I have seen some AS treating warders almost like suldam treat damanae. Particularly merise and that boy. It was so horrible I couldn't bear to read it. I felt like incinerating merise on the spot.

[CUBAREY]

These benefit are all designed to help the warder serve his AS. Don't they have a LIFE?

 

Well Warders seem to have daliances with their admirers and many Greens marry their Warders so they have some fun. :D ;D 8)

[DemandredFO]

I wonder how the Reds are gonna deal with their warders.

[trakand_01]

 

 

These benefit are all designed to help the warder serve his AS. Don't they have a LIFE?

 

 

No, they don't, not really. The job description of a Warder doesnt really say "do this, do that, so long as it doesnt inconvenience you and any other prior engagements". The sole purpose of a Warder is to protect his AS.

 

I love the Warders, and whilst I agree that the experience most likely does depend on the individual you are bonded to (Tomas for example, must be well and truly fed up with Verin by now - she wanders off every 3 days!), I think that their treatment is actually something that in my experience, men see quite often.

 

I'll explain.

 

Think about a father with a daughter. A Daddy's girl. He does everything for her, dotes on her, buys her everything she could ever want, protects her, stands up for her, taxis her about here there and everywhere for the first 16 years of her life.

 

Then, she reaches adolescence (ok, a bit earlier than 16) and bam! Dad is old, unfashionable and embarrassing. All his actions, his love care attention and money are forgotten for about 3 or 4 years until she suddenly realises that Dad is really great. (I know this doesnt happen with EVERY girl, but many do go through those awkward 'teenage' years!!)

 

But during the adolescent stage, does Dad think 'stuff this, I'm going to stop caring for her, protecting her and looking out for her'? No, he carries on because as a responsible father it is his duty.

 

I love and respect my father immensely. I have a very strong relationship with him. Yet I can still remember screaming 'I hate you!' at him when he refused to let me go out in whatever ridiculous outfit I'd come downstairs in. I can remember not talking to him for days on end for some perceived slight I'd received (or hadnt).

 

Warders are kind of the same. They pledge to protect and care for their Aes Sedai until the day they die. They know what they're getting into when they are bonded.

[Fryn]

The reds won't "handle" them well at all. Everything we have seen from other bonded men that can channel is at most it is a partnership and most of the control Aes sedai have over their warders do not work on this. Cadsaunne mentions this when observing the relationships in Rand's group. One of the most gifted Aes sedai at controlling warders was asking if she should give back the pin Rand gave him. I have a feeling the entire Warder/Aes sedai relationship isn't going to be as clean cut as it was before, and it will be for a lot longer =). Alaana also had absolutely no control over Rand, so it might just be dependant on how strong in comparison the male channeler is compared to the Aes sedai. Add teh fact that none of the reds have ever had a warder and it will be a mess.

[trakand_01]

I dont know whether this has ever been discussed in the books or on the forums but...

 

Is there any possibility that Warders have to take Oaths?

[Fryn]

Oaths maybe... oaths with the oath rod no. First it doesn't work for non channelers and second they don't have the ageless look which occurs from using an oath rod. As a sign to mark them as a criminal.

[Mr Ares]

I dont know whether this has ever been discussed in the books or on the forums but...

 

Is there any possibility that Warders have to take Oaths?

We see Lan swear an oath to Moiraine before she bonds him in NS, but Lan is not necessarily typical of Warders in this respect.

 

Alanna also had absolutely no control over Rand

Because he was holding the Source, and you can't compel a man holding the Source.

[Asmo]

Cadsuane said that Alanna had proven that bonding Rand is generally useless in controlling him, so unless you suggest that Rand would be holding saidin every waking second Alanna is within Compulsion range, then it's not just that which plays into channeler bonding relationships. Besides, Logain managed to Compel Tovaine just fine even if she was holding saidar.

[trakand_01]

I think the Alanna / Rand thing probably has more to do with the fact that it's Rand. He's not a malleable man. Not in Alanna's hands anyway.

[Mr Ares]

Cadsuane said that Alanna had proven that bonding Rand is generally useless in controlling him, so unless you suggest that Rand would be holding saidin every waking second Alanna is within Compulsion range, then it's not just that which plays into channeler bonding relationships. Besides, Logain managed to Compel Tovaine just fine even if she was holding saidar.

So a woman holding saidar is somehow a man holding saidin? Men holding saidin can't be compelled. Women holding saidar can be. We get this from a Sammael POV, as well as the inability to compel Rand. Like trakand_01 said, Rand is strong willed, but that would only make him harder to control. Holding saidin makes any man invulnerable to compulsion - while he's holding it.

[trakand_01]

Then it would be physically impossible to compel him whilst he was holding saidin, and virtually impossible when he isnt.

 

For many more men though, who are more easily swayed (ok, I'm beating about the bush here - men who arent stubborn as a mule), holding saidin would be the only thing to prevent them being compelled.

[Mr Ares]

Then it would be physically impossible to compel him whilst he was holding saidin, and virtually impossible when he isnt.

 

For many more men though, who are more easily swayed (ok, I'm beating about the bush here - men who arent stubborn as a mule), holding saidin would be the only thing to prevent them being compelled.

Precisely.