Why so much nudity?

[RAND AL THOR]

The WoT has more nudity than any other fantasy series I have read. Lets just look at a few:

1) Aiel practically don't care about clothing at all.

2) Sea Folk unlace blouses at Sea.

3) Aiel ceremonies of becoming first sisters involve being naked

4) Being raised to accepted requires you to be naked

 

 

Though there are reasons for all of those, it seems unnecessary to have so much naked behaviour. I especially can't consider the Aiel view at all: If they don't care about seeing both men and women naked then there is no privacy left at all in their lives!

[_james07_]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that the time period WoT is set in, was very prim and proper. It was considered decent to wear very long dresses etc. NO ONE wears any short skirts. It is often mentioned that it was proper to conceal your 

ankles. I think all the naked stuff, especially the Aiel customs, were made to put the characters in weak positions and put them off balance to see their reaction when they weren't in control.

[trakand_01]

I also think it is possibly a cultural thing. Personally, it doesnt bother me - I can quite understand why such as the atha'an miere remove their clothing/tops (hinders their activity and serves no purpose) and think that the aiel way of having no embarrassment about their bodies is actually quite acceptable.

 

If you look at native tribes in Africa Asia and S. America there is very little clothing in their culture because it serves no purpose. In millenia gone, clothing was non-existent - certainly the cavemen wore at the most, very very little, perhaps a loin cloth - and it is since then that we have developed into believing that to be clothed is the only acceptable way of life. I'm not sure where this came from but i'm inclined to think it maybe came from various religions, insisting that we should be 'demure, pure and virginial', that to show our bodies to other people - certainly the opposite sex, is wrong because it will inevitably lead to uncontrollable waves of lust and sex.

 

Unfortunately, once something becomes taboo, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy: we are told that showing ourselves will incite passion in the opposite sex, and so our brains programme themselves to be ashamed if someone else is naked and we look. Quite likely if this had never been instilled in us, we would be just as easy with our bodies and proud of what is possible with our bodies (the most powerful weapon/tool you will ever possess if it is trained correctly as the Aiel know well).

 

Ultimately I think RJ liked to include as many different cultures in his writings as he could. If he had covered only the 'conventional and western' way of life, I think it would offend many people - myself included.

 

;D

[_james07_]

I think RJ added in all the nakedness purely so he could put different characters off-balance in stressful situations which created inner conflict. For 

example, Egwene in the sweat tents, Faile and her followers as gai'shain, Thom and Julin on the seafolk ship, Egwene, Nyn and Elayne going for their accepted test. As you can see all of those naked cultures were used to put the characters off-balance in stressful circumstances and we got to see their different reactions. For instance Moiraine acted differently to Egwene in the sweat tents, she accepted it and took it calmly while Egwene was shocked. 

[runner1]

I agree.

Jordan was probably wanting to show different cultures in the WOT world AND put his characters off-balance when having to deal with a situation (seeing naked people!LOL) and their reactions to it.

 

Personally, the nudity in the books doesn't bother me.

Of course, I'm part Korean and in Korea it is common for people to go to bathhouses, (something similar to the bathhouses described in The Great Hunt in Shienar), of course divided by gender. ;)

 

[RAND AL THOR]

Quite likely if this had never been instilled in us, we would be just as easy with our bodies and proud of what is possible with our bodies

 

Talk about the ultimate fashion collapse.

 

I don't think THIS world would ever reach a point where everyone accepts everyone else walking about naked. ::)

[trakand_01]

No I dont think it would either - except perhaps after a serious disaster when clothes simply weren't available (like a film-story-type nuclear disaster where we all go and live in a bunker for 3 years and everything outside is obliterated). My point was that we havent always been like this. Clothing is a relatively modern thing in the history of humans.

[42Bonzo88]

    I agree with James07. I think that if you learn from it, you become stronger. Take the Aiel custom of pain and learning to endure it to the point of embracing it. How long did it take Egwene to learn, but look at how she is using it in the WT and how much better of a person she has become.

 

 

[Leopoled Boothe]

Because nudity is FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Avery]

Because nudity is FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Haha, I was thinking it but I didn't want to say it. I think of the women naked half the time anyway. =p

[Vemynal]

I like being naked, damn laws that keep my pants on >.>

[RAND AL THOR]

Clothing's way too sexy for society to discard it.

[Mr Ares]

Clothing's way too sexy for society to discard it.

Speak for yourself. I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my shirt, so sexy it hurts.

[Nelal Hurcran]

Clothing's way too sexy for society to discard it.

 

Is it clothing that's sexy, or the absence of it?

[Shaidar]

I like the frequent instances of nudity (and BDSM), it makes for a titillating read.

 

I don't think THIS world would ever reach a point where everyone accepts everyone else walking about naked.

 

Probably not, but I think it will become more commonplace. Observe the evolution of the bathsuit over the past century, for instance. From dresses and bathhouses to G-strings and top-free, at least in the more enlightened countries.

 

Is it clothing that's sexy, or the absence of it?

 

Somewhere in between, but closer to the latter extreme I'd say.

[Majsju]

When it comes to sexy, every designers goal is to find the perfect mix of showing as much skin as possible, while still leaving a good portion for the fantasy to work on.

[RAND AL THOR]

When it comes to sexy, every designers goal is to find the perfect mix of showing as much skin as possible, while still leaving a good portion for the fantasy to work on.

 

That would apply mostly for females, I presume.

[Avery]

That would apply mostly for females, I presume.

 

Indeed, heh. A well dressed man involves a good amount of clothing. =p

[Safia al-Maaz]

I personally would find it very uncomfortable running around without a top on... not only for modesty purposes, but its better if you strap 'em down when you're excersizing! 

[wvlr]

The last time I went to the public beach there were so many morbidly obese people wearing so little clothing that the place looked like a mating ground for Sea Cows.    I hopped and prayed for some Orcas and Great Whites to come through and thin the herd but it never happened.    There was one woman, near us, that must have weighed at least 300 and maybe even 400 and her rolls of breasts kept falling out of the little strip of cloth that she has assigned to the overwhelming task of covering them, while she devoured ice cream after ice cream.    I had to chastise my children nearly a hundred times about staring at her.    After a couple hours my wife and I became so revolted that we left.      That was three years ago, and we have not gone back since.      Fortunately, I found a friend that has some beach front property up the coast a ways that is in a sparsely populated area.    I would rather drive an extra two hours each way than put up with a public beach again.    If it was not for my friend, my kids would be restricted to a local pool.      I know that I am not all that great looking myself, but I try hard to restrict myself to a reasonable diet because if I eat too much I know that it will inevitably add undesirable pounds.    I understand that many people do not care about such things and that it is considered to be politically incorrect to talk about such things.      But why some people feel the need to inflict on the world the view of their great masses on uncovered blubber just astounds me.    Fashion be damned, clothing IS a blessing in some cases.

[Leopoled Boothe]

The last time I went to the public beach there were so many morbidly obese people wearing so little clothing that the place looked like a mating ground for Sea Cows.     I hopped and prayed for some Orcas and Great Whites to come through and thin the herd but it never happened.     There was one woman, near us, that must have weighed at least 300 and maybe even 400 and her rolls of breasts kept falling out of the little strip of cloth that she has assigned to the overwhelming task of covering them, while she devoured ice cream after ice cream.     I had to chastise my children nearly a hundred times about staring at her.     After a couple hours my wife and I became so revolted that we left.      That was three years ago, and we have not gone back since.      Fortunately, I found a friend that has some beach front property up the coast a ways that is in a sparsely populated area.     I would rather drive an extra two hours each way than put up with a public beach again.     If it was not for my friend, my kids would be restricted to a local pool.      I know that I am not all that great looking myself, but I try hard to restrict myself to a reasonable diet because if I eat too much I know that it will inevitably add undesirable pounds.     I understand that many people do not care about such things and that it is considered to be politically incorrect to talk about such things.      But why some people feel the need to inflict on the world the view of their great masses on uncovered blubber just astounds me.     Fashion be damned, clothing IS a blessing in some cases.

 

Ya know wvlr when you're right you're right, we really need to stop letting political correctness protect obese people.  I've found that many people find denial to be a much earier alternative to diet and exercise, so they just deny that they have gained weight and actully wear skimpy clothing in order to help perpetuate thier own denial.  Unfortunatly, people are too damned polite to say anything so they reason that if they can pull off the skimpy clothing that they must look good in it.  To me there is nothing more disgusting that a woman walking around in low-riders with her fat roles hanging over the sides.

 

I realize that not everyone can be supermodel thin but I've found, barring morbid obesety, that most people can make themselves presentable and even reasonably attractive if they a will to dress appropriatly for their body habitus.

 

Of couse I've never seen a Aiel described as morbidly obese so it they want to walk around naked that's cool (LOL)

[wvlr]

Well, like I said, I am not exactly the pick of the litter either - unless the litter was a bunch of hairy apes!  ;D ;D  But at least when I am at the beach or the pool for that matter, I tend to wear a shirt and longish trunks so people don't have to look at all my body hair.    It is all a mater of respect for other people.    I know from experience that many people do not like to see excessive body hair, so when I am in public I tend to do my best to moderate my appearance.    I know that I do not have to do this but I also don't see why I should force my excessive folicues on people.    Luckly the wife likes the Harry Beast.    Of course if she did not, she probably would not have married me.

[trakand_01]

 

I realize that not everyone can be supermodel thin

 

And nor should they be. I find it unnerving (in the UK, at least) that we buy our clothes on the merit of what they look like on a mannequin, when it has been medically proven that a woman who has 'dieted' to have the same proportions as a mannequin ('Size 0') would be unlikely to sustain a child in her womb and would cease to have monthly cycles, so unhealthy is it. Obviously that is different for women who are naturally lithe and lean. There is a vast difference between a woman being skinny (supermodels) and slender (a healthy weight:height ratio). In today's culture we have become obsessed with obesity - indeed the UK is swift catching up with the USA in terms of 'proportion of the population which is obese', but I think it is very important that we make absolutely sure that we understand what 'obese' is, otherwise I can see us in 5 or 10 years time branding anyone over 120lb to be obese, which is simply incorrect. The woman wvlr described certainly did sound to be obese however!!

 

It's all down to proportions and how a woman dresses, as you have said. For example, did you know that Marylin Monroe was a size 16 (UK)? You'd never have known it.  ;D

 

Going back to the clothing v nude being sexy discussion, I think it all depends on the circumstances. For example, a woman in a really short skirt and a really low-cut top is not sexy (not to me), but a woman in one OR the other may be. Too much is too much.

[Leopoled Boothe]

And nor should they be.

 

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly so please don't mistuderstand.  When I used the term "supermodel thin" I was using exageration to drive a point home.  I'm just saying that some people have large frames and therefore will never be skinny because they are not designed to be (not that that's an excuse for being overweight, there is a differnece between large framed and overweight, and there is a differnece between being lean and being skinny).  That does not mean that they are unattractive but they often make themselves unattractive by trying to dress like a skinny person (again skinny is not a prerequiset for being attractive).  It is a shame when women who would otherwise be very attractive insist of wearing pants that are two sized too small and thus make their love-handles seemingly ooze out over their wastline.  Believe me no matter how attractive a woman may be otherwise that completely ruins the effect.  I guess the point I'm trying to make is whatever your body habbitus wear clothes that fit.

 

As far a what obese is, it is a Body Mass Index (BMI) of >30, where BMI= (height in meters)x(weight in kilograms).  Of couse you have to take muscle mass, bone sturcture and %body fat into account, since according to the raw definiton Arnold Swartzaneger is obese.  So yah, I understand what obesity is (LOL).

 

Incidentally, while no Aiel have been described as being obese, none have been described as being skinny either.  They seem to be rather lean and well toned, the perfect qualifications for going naked.

[aslansrevenge]

What does this have to do with the books??????