Will Rand start TG?

[Raistlin]

Is it possible that rand will start TG? I think it would be a good twist. Him going for the DO at some point as a preemptive strike in the hopes of avoiding an all out war.

[RAND AL THOR]

It would depend on what event you would actually call the 'start.'

 

The trolloc invasion is obvious. Will that be called the start?

 

Or will whatever Rand does at the Bore be termed the start? I expect Rand to break the remaining seal. If so, will that be the start?

 

However, I don't see him purposefully beginning the battle. Too many may blame the Dragon for all the damage. If the DO begins the fight, then Rand may be viewed more like a saviour.

[Guest Toad]

Heroes always get a bad rap, doesn't matter who starts it.  I think the better question(s) is what is the initiating signal, and have we already seen it?  Considering what's going on in the world, seems like it has already begun.

[DemandredFO]

The major trolloc invasions have already started,I won't say where I think they are because I don't know the timeline very well and my estimates could be wildly off.  However, I think it has already started for the dead are walking.

[Guest Dreadlord]

I think Rand will start it, as he has begun gathering a massive army in one place for it.

 

I like how in KoD we hear mention of Tarmon Gaidon at the end of most chapters, and the way events pan out in book 11 make it clear there isnt long left. I like how obvious it is that Rand needs the Seanchan. Rand begins to make moves towards an alliance with them, and in the meantime Mat and Perrin end up forming links with the Seanchan of their own, individually, without knowing Rand was making plans for it.

 

But yes, I think Rand will instigate the Last Battle, pretty much as soon as the Seanchan are behind him. Over the series we have seen him waste time and in book 11 we finally see him form plans specifically for the Last Battle itself, rather than make plans to take down one Forsaken at a time. I think he will lead his own strike at Shayol Ghul, only with a slightly bigger force than last time aka everything they have. But the Black Tower needs to be done and dusted first.

[Raistlin]

I have been thinking this for A little while. I believe he sees it as the best way to save people.

[RAND AL THOR]

The major trolloc invasions have already started,I won't say where I think they are because I don't know the timeline very well and my estimates could be wildly off.  However, I think it has already started for the dead are walking.

 

? The major trolloc invasions have most certainly not yet started. I am sure we would have seen some indication in Book 11 if they had. You may be confused with the attack on Rand in book 11.

 

The dead walking is a warning that Tarmon Gaidon is near, not that it is already in progress.

 

I would say that the Second War of the Shadow began in Book 1 or even slightly before and that the Last Battle of that War is yet to occur.

[Snowy Dawn]

``But the Black Tower needs to be done and dusted first.''

 

And the White Tower must be reunited: that it will be so would seem likely, anyway, from Elaida's foretelling.

[Asmo]

Rand has been fighting the Last Battle since he first killed those Trollocs in Tam's farm - he just doesn't know it yet.

[RAND AL THOR]

Rand has been fighting the Last Battle since he first killed those Trollocs in Tam's farm - he just doesn't know it yet.

 

No.

 

The dead walking is a warning that TG is about to descend.

That only occured in Book 11.

 

I get your meaning though. That's why I said earlier:

 

I would say that the Second War of the Shadow began in Book 1 or even slightly before and that the Last Battle of that War is yet to occur.

[Guest Dreadlord]

The Dragon War? Or the War of the Dragon?

[bjclinton]

So far, Rand has proven himself to be someone that likes to control events whenever possible...especially big events. He's proven this time and time again in the series- going after the Forsaken one a time, cleansing the source, etc. I can't see that TG will be any different. I think with the help of Min, Moiraine and possibly others that Rand will figure out what he needs to do to win TG and that will somehow involve him destroying the seals to begin TG and take it to the house. In fact, I don't like the idea of it starting without him being the one to set it into motion.....I suspect he will have an amazing plan and  put it into place at the right time- much in the same was as LTT did.

[benr]

What must the result be for Rand to win the last battle?

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

if anything, the second war of power started in new spring with the foretelling that the DR had been reborn. the first move by the light was the amyrlin's 'search party' and the public birth recording thingy.  the first move by the shadow was the murders of the amyrlin and her search party.

[DemandredFO]

I think the second war of the shadow started when Ishamael healed Lews Therin and he realized what he'd done.  Ishamael destroyed the Ten Nations and created the Black Ajah.  1000 years later he destroyed Hawkwing dream of one land and twisted Hawkwing.  Who knows what he did in the intervening centuries.  As said I think the active part started in New Spring.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

What must the result be for Rand to win the last battle?

UNQUOTE

 

Seal the Bore. He wont kill the Dark one

[benr]

QUOTE

What must the result be for Rand to win the last battle?

UNQUOTE

 

Seal the Bore. He wont kill the Dark one

 

Agreed.  Now, given Rand's flair for the dramatic, is that Rand's goal?

[Guest Dreadlord]

I think so, as I think killing the Dark One isnt on the cards. He might have some way to permanently seal the Dark One away, maybe Rands third question of the Finns was something about how to permanently seal the Bore, but I really think if Rand killed the Dark One it would ruin everything

[RAND AL THOR]

I really think if Rand killed the Dark One it would ruin everything

 

It most certainly would.

 

Besides, is that even possible?

[Mr Ares]

Besides, is that even possible?

RJ said the amount of balefire necessary to kill Shai'tan would destroy the world. Which implies that Shai'tan can be killed, but trying is perhaps not advisable.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Seal the Bore. He wont kill the Dark one

Agreed.  Now, given Rand's flair for the dramatic, is that Rand's goal?

 

The Dragon Reborn is really more than one "person" these days.  If he's going to accomplish anything, Rand and LTT have to reach an understanding.

 

Rand would settle for "permanently" sealing the Bore.  My guess is that LTT sees the Forsaken as unfinished business.  Before it's all done LTT would want them dead as well.  Then, there's the issue of survival.  I don't think Rand has given up on finding a way to live through it all.

 

So, it winds up being a three part thing:

Kill all of the Forsaken;

Permanently seal the Bore;

Live.

[Guest Dreadlord]

Rand wont be the one to kill all the Forsaken though, at least I hope not. I want Cadsuane in there definitely. I want Mat to kill one of them as well, but at the same time I want Rand to kill Demandred and Moridin, and that leaves no men for Mat so he probably wont.

 

I would like it if Mat outdid Demandred on the battlefield, I want Cadsuane to be more than a match for Semirhage (not just in the Power; Cadsuane is made of sterner stuff than i first realised, and breaking Semirhage would give her a good plot and a good victory) but most of all (well, not most of all, but for the longest) I want Nynaeve to kill Moghedien. Moghedien is pathetic.

 

I think its safe to say Rand will be alive after Tarmon Gaidon, there is way too much evidence/foreshadowing for me to believe otherwise. To live you must die. Hows THAT one guna turn out...

 

But yeah I doubt very much that all the Forsaken will die, and if they do it wont be by the one-on-ones people are hoping for. Theres just too many left still, and there are more important things for the last book than all of them dying I think. Some, yes, but not all.

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

I want Cadsuane to be more than a match for Semirhage (not just in the Power;

 

you mean NOT AT ALL IN THE POWER??

 

we already know cadsuane is significantly weaker than the forsaken.

[DemandredFO]

Rand, Logain, Aliva and Nyneave can match the Foresaken strength for strength.  Sharina is only a novice and we don't really know where most of the Asha'man are.  Mat most likely will kill Demandred and or Aran'gar.

[Majsju]

Mat most likely will kill Demandred and or Aran'gar

 

And where do you get that "most likely" from?