A proposal (tell me what you think)

[Barmacral]

So, recently some mods have been putting in a rule about modkilling due to inactivity for a certain period of time, not all, but some. I'd like to suggest that we take this one step further in order to ensure that those players who actually choose to play.

 

I'd like to suggest that any player who is modkilled due to inactivity in a mafia game gets -1 points for the game, and are ineligible for any other points from that game.

 

What do you think?

[Alys Kinch]

I second this. It's nicer than what I suggested. And it hits the target we are aiming for with our lack of activity rules.

[MsDanya]

I third it. Of course the mod-kill wont happen if you get an unsuspected LOA that you inform the mod about?

[loki redfern]

what ive done in the past is just not given any points at all to who ever if they didnt make it to the end of the game, ie as if they never played at all, which is what im going to do with this one

 

maybe if its a consistant non activity thing, like three games in a row, they can have there points/games played and everything reset to zero ..otherwise youll end up with people having minus points

[DPR]

I like the idea. Anything that promotes participation is good in my book. 

[Thorum]

I'll fifthth this.

 

Wonderful idea

[Verbal32]

Perhaps I'm being excessive, but what about not letting them play in the next mafia game?  So if I am modkilled, then I can't sign up for the next game......basically a 1 game suspension.

 

After writing that, it does sound kinda harsh.  But inactivity really dampens the games.  I don't see a lot of people really caring all that much about the points.  Personally, I'm just happy to be playing, so the points don't really concern me.

 

But like DPR said, anything that promotes activity is fine with me.  :)

[Naeann]

Verbal has a point.  I never get the bonus points and I think only like, once, have I been on the winning team even.  I just like playing.

[Myndrunner]

In my third mafia game so far and already its frustrating when some folks are just plain not active, but what do we define as inactive?  24 hours? 48?  One shouldn't enter a mafia game if they don't have the time for it, but then again, one shouldn't be mod killed just because they skipped DM for a day.

 

So, what do we define as inactive?

[MsDanya]

In my opinion, inactivity is when you havent participated in at least two Mafia days. But thats usually up to the game-mod to decide. And also what kind of game it is. But generally two Mafia days I think is about right.

[Kivam]

Perhaps I'm being excessive, but what about not letting them play in the next mafia game?  So if I am modkilled, then I can't sign up for the next game......basically a 1 game suspension.

 

After writing that, it does sound kinda harsh.  But inactivity really dampens the games.  I don't see a lot of people really caring all that much about the points.  Personally, I'm just happy to be playing, so the points don't really concern me.

 

But like DPR said, anything that promotes activity is fine with me.  :)

 

What I've done on another site is actually double check with the person in the signup thread - if they were inactive the last time, I tell them that I won't sign them up as in for the next game unless they are absolutely certain that they will show up and play this time.  And I tell them that if they make that commitment and then bail again, they'll be banned from mafia for a bit, so they should think about that before they answer.

 

That tends to work

[Myndrunner]

In my opinion, inactivity is when you havent participated in at least two Mafia days. But thats usually up to the game-mod to decide. And also what kind of game it is. But generally two Mafia days I think is about right.

 

That sounds about right to me.  Unless otherwise specified by the Mod, two rounds (night/day) of inactivity should warrant a MOD kill and further "what-have-you"s.  Also, I think it should be activity driven, not post driven.  Someone coming in to post "hey, Im here don't kill me" does not move the game forward, so it should not be considered being active. 

 

Thoughts?

[MsDanya]

I think that activity is based on game related posts. I havent modded many games, but I know I sometimes get annoyed with people who's just spamming pages and pages without any real game related input. Again its up to the game-mods what they see as game related posting. But if I modded a game, I would not have any problems with at least warning those who either didnt post anything, or only posted spam. We have Fiddlesticks for that sort of thing.

 

 

[loki redfern]

dont most mafia only have about 5 or 6 game days at most, 2 days of that can be quite a large chunk of the game and for most games maybe about 8-10 days of actuall time for the average day lenght. seems quite alot. i like the  short term ban idea

[MsDanya]

Yes, but like I said, thats really up to the game-mod what he or she thinks is appropriate.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the Ban thing. I'll give it some more thoughts.

[Myndrunner]

Yeah, banning might actually risk pushing the potential player away rather than encouraging them to participate more in further games.  I also agree with The Lokemeister about 2 full days being too long. 

 

Maybe inaction without notice twice during a game results in a mod kill and/or a loss of any points.  I think that the folks who sign up for these mafia games, for the most part, want to play but offline stuff gets in the way. 

 

EX #1: The finder doesn't post anything but an occasional "HEYA, I AM HERE" post, but doesn't vote in a DAY 1 lynch and then that night doesn't send you any PM for their night action.  By the end of that night, he/she is MOD killed and earns no points. 

 

EX #2:  A player is active on the thread and posting speculations about who is mafia, but doesn't vote anyone, they have to actually post [glow=red,2,300]NO VOTE[/glow] in order for it to actually count as activity.  Make sense?

[Alys Kinch]

i don't think a vote is the only form of activity, therefore a vote should not be the basis of deciding when to modkill. helpful input, ideas, theorizing, that kind of thing count just as much.

[DPR]

 

Couplw o points:

 

Some players lay low. It's not my favorite, but it is a tactic, and I'll support it as such because a lot of times it is effective. So if the player does not post, but is in contact with the mod, then there is no problem. On the same hand, the mod should announce if any player is on LOA so that people don't think that they are laying low.

 

The only thing that I don't agree with is a player who has used an LOA excuse to cover for laying low - and I don't mean admitting that you've been busy in RL, everyone does that. I mean telling the mod you won't be around, when in fact, you are and you just want a free pass to get through a few game days. That's just not in the game spirit.

 

As far as spamming the game goes, that's always been a mod controlled issue. I've always allowed it because it breaks up slow periods and because it is another tactic. It's usually a mafia tactic, but if someone is casing you and makes a good point, arguing with them for five pages can definitely throw people off of your trail. So if you have the stamina to pull it off, I'll allow it. But only game related stuff. No fluff just for fluff's sake.

 

We could easily have a general rule that says "If you miss two game days in a row with no posting, you'll be mod killed at the close of the second day." That seems fair. Some people like to play for points, so docking them a point seems reasonable but not excessive. Banning people should be reserved only for repeat offenders.

 

The only other thing I can think of is that everyone has to, has to, has to know that it is just mafia. That no matter what may seem like a disagreement, or a fight, no one is actually serious about it. On that same note, keeping people from geting too carried away balances the equation.

[Daetirion]

A few quick thoughts on the issue.

 

LOA's are dodgy subjects. Taking the one im currently on as an example, i have no idea from day to day when i can get net access, and am liable to go for a week at a time without it. Yet other weeks ill have fairly normal access. Therefore i'd be careful when mentioning LOA's that don't end up being proper LOA's - personally if i only had an hour online a day or something, the one place i'd be liable to post is a current mafia game, even if i've mentioned an LOA.

 

Secondly - surprise LOA's. Whilst i knew i had an LOA approaching, i ended up without net access 4 days before i thought i would. I notified those i could via MSN, posted it in a couple of places but physicly didn't have time to PM every Mod of a game to inform them. As such i was hoping the message might get passed along. In the event of it not, i was expecting a modkill - but to then get minus points and a one game ban? I see that as being in some ways an overreaction.

 

In essence, i agree to not getting any points for that game. I'm unsure about points docking and vehemently opposed to a GameBan. Having said that i believe a mod can decide whom they wish to have in their game - if it is such a serious issue they can simply say no.

 

Spamming - mod's discretion, don't mind it, can be informative in some cases and exceptionaly annoying in others (yes im talking about flipping Civil War where i lost my notes at pg70 and had to reread the whole thing >.>)

 

Ok slightly stream-of-conciousness but i don't have time to review. Enjoy the irrationality  ;)

[Alys Kinch]

i've been over run by surprise loa's and yet, i still think that something should be done to further accomplish the aim of people joining and not playing.

 

i think no points for a game you didn't play is fair.

[Vemynal]

well sometimes things do come up in real life lets remember, i don't know how many of you know but I had a car crash and my truck is now a mess and i wont have it for the next month, which has made my life a whole lot more interesting.

 

I dont know whether loki replaced me in his game or not yet but i know i gave him the ok to do it because i cant and dont have the time to deal with a mafia game.

 

and i don't think people should be punished for these situations. I'm good with no points but i'd also hope that you dont count me as even having played the game period (so instead of 0 points for the game, i just didnt play the game)

[Kivam]

well sometimes things do come up in real life lets remember, i don't know how many of you know but I had a car crash and my truck is now a mess and i wont have it for the next month, which has made my life a whole lot more interesting.

 

I dont know whether loki replaced me in his game or not yet but i know i gave him the ok to do it because i cant and dont have the time to deal with a mafia game.

 

and i don't think people should be punished for these situations. I'm good with no points but i'd also hope that you dont count me as even having played the game period (so instead of 0 points for the game, i just didnt play the game)

 

Honestly, I think where people have real life smack them in the face unexpectedly mid-game, there shouldn't be any repercussions.  Its not something you can plan for or avoid, so its not like there's any point in "encouraging" people not to have it happen.

 

The real problem becomes people who don't have a real excuse - just got bored of the game, or weren't all that interested to begin with.

[Barmacral]

Here's a few things from my POV:

 

1. My definition (when I mod in any case) of inactive is if you don't make a single game related post in a game day. Spam does not count, I expect you to vote or voice your opinions or something to do with the game. Thats enough to warrant replacement or modkill, which result in the same thing anyways.

 

2. If you go on LOA, the least you can do is PM the mod or jump in the game and let us know. If you can't manage the minute out of your day it takes to do that, and leave the rest of the players hanging, I consider that the same as ignoring the game and being bored in this case, no exceptions. Even if RL hits you in the face, its still a negative impact on the game for the other players, and gets the same treatment IMO. Sorry about your luck, take the -1 hit and come back to play when you can, nobody's gonna hate you.

 

3. The game ban seems harsh, and I'm hesitant to do that, I'd rather see how this goes before doing any sort of trial and error with that. Mynd is absolutely right about that idea pushing players away when we want to keep them.

[Daetirion]

2. If you go on LOA, the least you can do is PM the mod or jump in the game and let us know. If you can't manage the minute out of your day it takes to do that, and leave the rest of the players hanging, I consider that the same as ignoring the game and being bored in this case, no exceptions. Even if RL hits you in the face, its still a negative impact on the game for the other players, and gets the same treatment IMO. Sorry about your luck, take the -1 hit and come back to play when you can, nobody's gonna hate you.

 

Again my situation. I physicly had 10 minutes - i was sat in a train station, awaiting my train. In that time i needed to let the right people know i was gone, including importantly staff positions, transfer money between bank accounts and check my flight times. Now logically i prioritised and dealt with accordingly.

 

As to taking a -1 hit, surely a nil point is bad enough considering the weeks of input prior to dropping off in the last few game days. Personally im not much of a player for points but its a nice stat and should previous input be taken into consideration? ie. if someone has played well the first 5 days or so and then disappears vs. someone who dissappears after day 1?

[Alys Kinch]

i dislike taking points when there is a situation a player couldn't help. that said, it's still not fair to other players to be left hanging, avoidable or not.

 

in the end, i think it's most fair to say no points awarded for a game you didn't play.

 

i think if you played for almost every mafia day, you deserve some credit. but most of our cases are players that are here for two maybe three game days out of six or seven.