Mat and the Tower of Ghenji

[Bob T Dwarf]

Aludra has invented matches.

 

A trained voice is an instrument as well.

 

I think it's just plain ole courage here.

 

The dagger certainly, but a male a'dam is also described in terms that make me think of iron.  It certainly would be more likely to bind than a dagger.

[Kaznen]

I just can't see threatening the 'finns with a match (unless said finns are standing in a pool of gasoline)  Matches are not that bright and if you wave them around they go out.

 

Could she make some wicked firebombs?  Yes, that I could see for their fire, but not a match.

 

I mean, really, a match?  C'mon!

[Myndrunner]

This old woman once told me.... "The power of a match is not the match itself, but what it lights."  She said her name was Lini.  She was like 200 years old, I think.  Kinda rough around the edges, too. 

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

I just can't see threatening the 'finns with a match (unless said finns are standing in a pool of gasoline)  Matches are not that bright and if you wave them around they go out.

 

yes, because it makes perfect sense to attach real-world processes and attitudes to an alien world in a piece of fantasy fiction makes perfect sense...

 

honestly...WoT != RL

[stoneface]

Mat knows that Olver can never win the game of Snakes and Foxes, unless he cheats.  Mat the gambler knows many ways to cheat.  Mat the general knows many ways to cheat.  Mat will cheat any way he can during the rescue; I think that has been clearly foreshadowed.  We just don't know how yet.

 

The Seanchan are always searing by their eyes.  I have always figures that "giving up half the light of the world" and placing his eye on a balance involved striking a deal with the Seanchan, not something in the rescue. 

 

My speculation, anyway.

[Rasta Ashaman]

Iron - What significant item or items exist in Randland that are more than casually mentioned as being made of Iron?  The Dagger, of course, but we're running out of time and I don't see Mat going out of his way to get it. Hmmm...

 

Ashandarei, maybe?  Mat did say "I’ll slice them with their own wit if I ever get the chance.", after all.

 

 

P.S. and I suspect I know the reason why Slayer doesn't have any troubles with the Finns. As it happens quite often, the ancient names get distorted with time, and the real name has always been Tower of Ganja.

[Majsju]

If you enter the Tower itself, there is no agreement so you don't get the wishes or the answers.  However, you don't have to abide by the agreement so you can take music, fire, iron, what have you.

 

Since pretty much all people in Mats head entered through the tower, apparently you do get to make a deal.

 

Regarding Mats eye, both Min and Egwene have seen him place it on a balancing scale, the finns "prophecy" was to give up half the light. This strongly hints at losing an eye will be something he volunteers to do, not a wound from a fight during the rescue mission.

Some people have speculated that this is something Mat will do before entering the tower, plucking out his own eye to prevent the finns from seeing what he is up to. I do not think so. There is no way for him to know if they see through one or both eyes, and if it is through one eye, which eye it is. And even if he had this knowledge, doing it would be quite out of character for Mat. He would complain and curse, but in the end take the chance.

So most likely it will be some kind of bargain with the finns.

 

Regarding Noal, I really do not think he is a DF. He saved Mat from the gholam, which seems a very strange action from a DF. Especially if you consider the latest order regarding Mat.

I think it is more likely that he knows at least parts of what he has done when Ishy used him, and hopes to get a last shot at  redeeming himself.

[aevogt]

I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking. 

 

You do get the deal entering through the ToG, but only if you can outsmart them. 

 

Taking in Iron or light or what have you, and they don';t give you a "strapping".  insert rim shot here.

[Luckers]

Well, the destinction is probably only in the fine print. I mean, the Finns still have the abilities they have, and the desire to get what they get out of the Agreement--only the Agreement doesn't rule the interaction. It's like dealing with people in a public store, and dealing with them freelance. The same things are still in play, there just arn't any rules.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

P.S. and I suspect I know the reason why Slayer doesn't have any troubles with the Finns. As it happens quite often, the ancient names get distorted with time, and the real name has always been Tower of Ganja.

UNQUOTE

 

Ans Manetheren was really called Marawana? And the ancient symbol for time is the Weed, not the Wheel?

[Majsju]

The most likely reason why Slayer has no problems with the finns is because he has no dealings with them, he just tricked Perrin into believeing he had entered the tower, hoping Perrin would manage to get in and thus be captured.

[skalors3]

Someone had stated earlier that the knife is moot because it only hides you from the shadow.  I would disagree.  The finns have been referred to closely as being tied to the shadow.  I think that is why it is difficult to ask them questions that relate closely to the shadow. 

 

Also, all we have to go on is Av's description of the dagger.  It might be that the shadow, being not of this world, but of this world, that the dagger protects a person from.  What if the finn's use the same type of sight as leaf blighter? 

[aevogt]

Incorrect, The Finns are described by Moraine as "not evil as the Shadow is evil but so different from humanity they might as well be"  or words to that effect.

 

They are not closely tied to the Shadow.  The ToG and doorways were extensivley used in the Age of Legends before the Bore was ever drilled. 

 

[Myndrunner]

Guys,

 

I really think the dagger will play a very important roll in the events of AMOL, but I really don't think that it will have much to do with Mat & Thom.  If Elayne still has it, it will probably keep her unseen by shadow should another attack siege Camelyn.  Or, maybe it will help her root out the remaining Black Ajah.

 

I think they key will be in how to cheat at Snakes and Foxes.  Also, we don't know if the Finns are allies or against each other.  We may have snakes vs foxes with Mat & Thom caught in the middle. 

 

-Mynd

[bRANDan]

I think that the deal Mat stikes with the Finns will be seperate from their rescue of Moiraine. I think he'll trade his eye for bronze dragons. Then Mat comes out and mates the Dragons to the steam engines from Cairhein. Oohh, what will Mat's enemies think. Machines that move on their own and cause massive destruction, pretty frightening when you're armed with a bow and arrow.

[aevogt]

How are the Finns going to produce Bronze dragons.  From what we've seen, what they give out is waht they have on hand that will meet the agreement.

 

Maybe they'll give him plans to build them but they won't have the means to give him the finished product, unless aome long ago visitor gave them a bunch of bronze lofting tubes.

 

 

 

 

[Myndrunner]

They are probably going to ask him to bring them........A SHRUBBERY!!! *slaps knee*

 

What? Too old?  Wow, tough crowd.....

 

-Mynd

The Struggling Gleeman

[Cillian]

 

 

honestly...WoT != RL

 

Yes! And I've found the Tower of Ghenjei!! It's in Dublin!

http://i.pbase.com/u46/pnd1/large/33921368.OConnollStreetDublincopy.jpg

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/B/building/images/im_ts_01.jpg

lol :D

[aevogt]

and then he has to chop down the White Tower with "A HERRING!!!"

[Myndrunner]

NO one expects the Red Ajah!!!

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

and then he has to chop down the White Tower with "A HERRING!!!"

UNQUOTE

 

I have a mental image of Mat (Sir Robin) journeying to the Tower of Ghenjie, with Thom singing endlessly about Mat, and Noal with them smacking two halves of coconuts together...

 

Also, as Rand makes his way towards Shayol Ghul, he encounters a black-armored figure holding a sword.

 

"None shall pass!" Shaidar Haran announces.

 

"What?" Rand exclaims, hand on his sword hilt already.

 

"None shall pass."

 

"I order you to stand aside! Do you know who I am?" Rand says.

 

"I move for no man!" Shaidar proclaims...

[Myndrunner]

Perrin: Stand aside, Berelain!  I have seen the Horn of Valere!  I know it is here!

 

Woman: Oh, I am not Berelain.  I am her identical twin sister, Dingo.  Oh, and you are tired, Lord Goldeneyes.  Berelain has been naughty, so you must spank her.  And then, spank me.

 

Novices: And Me! And Me!

 

Dingo: And after that, the....

 

(Suddenly, a black gate opens and Rand emerges.)

 

Rand: Perrin! I'm so glad I found you in time.  You are in terrible peril! 

[Generic Aelfinn #2]

^^ major LULZ

[Aemon raHal]

No one expects the Red Ajah - Brilliant !!

 

 

:)

[Snowy Dawn]

One of Min's visions was that Moiraine's presence was necessary for Rand to win at the last battle, IIRC. If so, giving an eye in trade for Moiraine could be seen as giving up an eye to save the world. At least Mat and Thom make it out of 'Finn land, given what we know so far, since Thom marries Moiraine and Mat is also necessary for victory at TG. Whether Jain makes it out, I do not know, but on what we know so far, he is not a dark friend but he was used by Ishamael. As for his scars and the rest of it, he has been engaged in adventures involving fighting for a long time... Do we need any further explanation for where those came from. (I agree it was he at Stedding Shangtai, and that he made his way to Ebou Dar from there.)