How did rand somehow... last what five years without going mad?

[billoumm7]

i one of the books (i forget which) it says that most men who can channel go mad and die in three years. than how could rand last four or five?

[Majsju]

First time Rand channels is spring 998. The Cleansing takes place in spring 1000. That is two years of channeling for Rand, and he is not exactly a posterboy for mental health.

[balefire]

Thats because he hasn't been channeling for five years. As far as i can remember, the entire series takes place within a two year time span. Plus going mad in less then 3 years isn't a hard and fast rule. Its just general misconception spread and amplified by people's fear and lack of knowledge regarding the nature and effect of the taint on channeling men, among female aes sedai. The best examples of men channeling more then 5 years and not going mad are Taim and Logain. Both are very strong in power, near to rand (who is the strongest male channeler) so they have forsaken level strength and both have been channeling more then 5 years.

 

The black tower is the best example, while it is true that some people go mad upon the first touch of Saidin and some in less then an year, they represent hardly 5-10% of the black tower, which has almost a 1000 channelers. Before the taint was removed by rand, the black tower channelers had been channeling for almost 8-12 months and most of them were pretty much fine, only minutely affected by taint. Plus Rand is the prophesized dragon reborn, so the weaving of the pattern is probably in his favor. Nevertheless, he has been partially effected by the taint.

[BrainFireBob]

He shows signs of obsession and megalomania, and is emotionally unstable. Certainly partially due to the Taint, in addition to the pressures on him. Sane people, even in a world where magic works, don't think they can bring back the dead, and when they fail, artificially make a heart beat and lungs move.

 

Rand has coped with his situation by disassociation. He is gradually approaching becoming a de facto psychopath. If he hadn't done this, he might be raving bonkers, of course.

 

And it's been two years. I've always been rather suspicious that Taim was referring to Rand when he commented he once "found" a male channeller who lasted just under two years. A joke at Rand's expense, very Taim.

[wvlr]

He shows signs of obsession and megalomania, and is emotionally unstable. Certainly partially due to the Taint, in addition to the pressures on him. Sane people, even in a world where magic works, don't think they can bring back the dead, and when they fail, artificially make a heart beat and lungs move.

 

Rand has coped with his situation by disassociation. He is gradually approaching becoming a de facto psychopath. If he hadn't done this, he might be raving bonkers, of course.

 

And it's been two years. I've always been rather suspicious that Taim was referring to Rand when he commented he once "found" a male channeller who lasted just under two years. A joke at Rand's expense, very Taim.

 

So your saying that he went crazy almost immediately?

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think BFB is failing to make allowance for the overwhelmingly intoxicating/mind-altering effect Callandor has.

 

When Rand wields Callandor, he very definitely is not in his right mind.

 

But that's not everyday.  Whatever his true mental state is, he still retains enough self-control to put Callandor down and walk away.  That's a demonstration of sanity at work.  He knows that what he has just done with Callandor is 'wrong'.  So, he forces himself to stop, put it down, and walk away.

[Thor]

afaik he never put down callandor himself ever.  First time was moiraine/wonder girls talking him out of it, second time was Bashere physically knocking him down.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yes, Bashere knocked him down.  That restored him to enough sensibility that he actually became aware of what he had done.  Once he'd done that HE made the decision that it was time to go home and leave bad enough alone.

 

Again, in Tear, it took someone else to bring him back, but again, HE decided that what he was attempting was impossible and it was time to stop.

 

I tolja, Callandor is a powerful drug.  It takes an intervention.

[icspots]

I think BFB is failing to make allowance for the overwhelmingly intoxicating/mind-altering effect Callandor has.

 

When Rand wields Callandor, he very definitely is not in his right mind.

 

But that's not everyday.  Whatever his true mental state is, he still retains enough self-control to put Callandor down and walk away.  That's a demonstration of sanity at work.  He knows that what he has just done with Callandor is 'wrong'.  So, he forces himself to stop, put it down, and walk away.

 

What no one's mentioning in conjunction with his "Callandor madness" is that Callandor magnifies the taint.  So while Rand may still be somewhat sane, while he uses Callandor without a circle of two other women and them controlling the flows the taint drives him bonkers.  This effect stops when he isn't channeling through it.

 

On another note I think the distinction about how long Rand's remained sane has to acknowledge the sheer amount of saidin that he's channeled in those two years.  Namely using Callandor, the little fat man Angreal, and the Choedan Kal.

[Bob T Dwarf]

hmmmmmm...

 

You could be entirely right.  Only way we'll know is to see what happens if he uses Callandor again now that the Source has been cleansed.

 

I suspect that the intoxicating effect of containing and controlling that much OP will be nearly as bad.

 

Strange thing is, that he was able to stay focused, somewhat aware of his immediate surroundings and 'in control' while using the CK and even more ( still Tainted ) Saidin during the Cleansing.

[bRANDan]

afaik he never put down callandor himself ever.  First time was moiraine/wonder girls talking him out of it, second time was Bashere physically knocking him down.

 

Actually the first time he put it down was after he fought Ishammael/Ba'alzamon. This occured "off-screen", but I think he put it down himself, both because there was nobody he needed to kill and after his little display, and with Moiraine indisposed(?, not sure), I doubt any Aiel or Tairen would say "Hail the Dragon Reborn, now put the sword down, c'mon, give it here."

[aevogt]

He also alost a good bit of his first year channeling due to the effects of the portal stone.  That time passed, but for those RTand was attempting to transport to Toman Head, it did not. 

 

Rand first hears the Voice of LTT, a sign of his impending insanity, in chapter 10 of The Shadow Rising, when he, using Callandor, unleashes the Anti-Shadowspawn Hurricane, roughly a year after he starts intentionally channeling Saidin.

 

The voice is silent for some time and is next heard from in The Fires of Heaven when Egwene is chewing out Rand and The Voice of LTT compares her to Ileyna.

 

It becomes more and more frequent as Rand's psychosis deepens.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Psychosis in our world.  In Randland it's just a neighbor who lives WAAAAAY too close.

 

Also, keep in mind, all of the really heavy duty channeling he did in book 1 was with pure, untainted saidin.

 

He wasn't exposed to the rotgut for quite as long as it seems.

[Corbett]

Also I believe that Callandor has 2 flaws one is the lack of buffer and the other is it magnifies the taint unlike the fat man and the Choden Kal

[BrainFireBob]

Yes, Callandor magnifies the Taint. I brought those episodes up because it magnifies the Taint- Rand's already nuts, he just has good control of his irrational impulses, but Callandor pushes him over the edge.

 

If you want when I think Rand succumbed to the Taint, I'd say it's in tDR- his trip to Tear was the trip of a person not in his right mind. There's an excellent essay about parallels between Rand/LTT and MPD or DPD (depending on the age of the documents!), "The Personality Integration of Rand al'Thor and Lews Therin Telamon," that goes into it in detail. Shortly, it was in tDR he gained LTT "in the back". That's when he stopped being sane.

 

Mind, not being sane doesn't make him any less rational, but his emotional responses are extreme- hence the only thing giving him a grip on reason being his rationality.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Just out of curiosity -

 

Those of you who think that Rand is insane - what would be a "sane" reaction to actually having to share your consciousness with another real person?

 

Think of it as a kind of permanent telepathic link that can't be broken if that helps formulate an answer.

[aevogt]

You mean actually having another soul sharing your body like some kind of disembodied siamese twin.

 

Steven King wrote a pretty good book where a disembodied twin actually created it's own body and went on a rampage.

 

However, I think maybe you mean that if the voice of LTT is really the soul of LTT, and a seperate person from Rand than Rand wouldn't be insane?

 

The Voice of LTT disappears from Rand's head for a time, but only when Cadsuane, in ACOS points out that it is the madness, and other male channelers have heard voices.  This kind of shocks Rand into something resembling sanity and then over the course of the next couple days, with all his issues with Min and his newest unhealing injury, he doesn't revert back to bonkers for some time.

 

The Voice of LTT returns only after Rand's parlay with Torval when LTT tells Rnad he must kill Torval.

 

 

[BrainFireBob]

That's certainly a key argument, Bob- personally, while I don't agree with it, there is a consistency to the argument that the taint "caused" LTT- meaning getting LTT was Rand going nuts, he's just coped admirably well so far.

[safwd]

1. Its only been about 2 years

2. Rand is not "most male channelers", he is the Bloody Dragon Reborn.

3. Rand is already a little bit off.

 

Now that the taint is gone Rand is pretty safe from going insane but the taint isnt all he had messing with him. There is a guy talking in his head, he has the fate of the ENTIRE world resting on him, he has to fight the most powerful channelers in history on a pretty regular basis, half the people he is trying to save would happily stick an arrow in him, and he was a happy farm boy two years ago now he is the Bloody Dragon Reborn.

 

I think most people would go a bit loopy with all that going on.

[Bob T Dwarf]

"... a bit loopy" I'll buy.  Showing visible signs of stress I'll buy.  Floundering because he's out of his element I'll buy.

 

Insane I won't.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Only way we'll know is to see what happens if he uses Callandor again now that the Source has been cleansed

UNQUOTE

 

The way I see it, Callandor encourages the wildness of the mind, Cadsuane tells us this (I cant remember when, but not longer after she turns up, I havent got a page reference sorry) so, I think if anyone used Callandor it amplifies the effects that the Taint has already had. So, even if Rand used Callandor again in AMoL I think he would still lose it abit. The Cleansing made it so people don't get any worse from the Taint. It DID NOT remove the madness people already have. So, if someone who had been channeling through the Taint for many years used Callandor before the Cleansing and after the Cleansing they would be just as likely to go loopy in both cases. If, in AMoL there was a new male channeler who gained enough experience with the Power as Rand has, they would suffer no ill effects at all with Callandor, since they had never been effected by the Taint.

 

That is the way I interpretted it anyway, but I do think I am right.