Egwene for Amyrlin.One in a million chance.Why?Taveren job ?

[CALDAZAR]

In my point of view ,it would be rather impossible for Aes Sedai to select an Accepted (even this strong and promising)for Amyrlin.Ok , she CAN be Amyrlin (has the potential) ,but I'm sure they could find an Aes Sedai to accomodate their needs . Even Faolain could be a far better candidate than Egwene (if they wanted an Accepted for the job ).Things like this happen only around Taveren .She wasn't there , I dont know if she even is Taveren .So , why? 

[nashdude]

In my point of view ,it would be rather impossible for Aes Sedai to select an Accepted (even this strong and promising)for Amyrlin.Ok , she CAN be Amyrlin (has the potential) ,but I'm sure they could find an Aes Sedai to accomodate their needs . Even Faolain could be a far better candidate than Egwene (if they wanted an Accepted for the job ).Things like this happen only around Taveren .She wasn't there , I dont know if she even is Taveren .So , why?   

 

Personally, I think Egwene getting Amyrlin is an effect of Rand (and Mat and Perrin) being ta'veren. Come the Last Battle, Rand is gonna need an Amyrlin that he can use. And unless I'm mistaken, we've seen how ta'veren don't just effect things in their immediate presence, but also things that WILL happen in their presence.

[slayerA]

Have to agree with the part about the 3 ta'veren, the pattern pulls what

Rand and the others need around to them. Plus there were other reasons, like Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif influencing the hall.

1. Egwene is strong in the power

2. She grew up with the 3 and has close ties to Rand

3. She was away from the tower during the breaking

 

It was those three reasons why the hall the picked her. So you really need to ask why was it Siuan choose her. Also I wonder if Moiraine had some small fortelling in the EoTW, when she tells Egwene she could one day be Amyrlin Seat. Seems unlikely and unlike Moiraine to make such an off the cuff statement.

[Mr Ares]

Things like this happen only around Taveren. I dont know if she even is Taveren.

All ta'veren do is make things that are otherwise less likely to happen happen. So it would be possible for things that ta'veren cause to happen to happen without ta'veren, it is just less likely. Also, Egwene is not ta'veren. If she was, Siuan, Logain or Nicola would have noticed.

[benr]

There is a ton of foreshadowing of Egwene becoming Amyrlin before TG.  I think RJ was masterful in creating plausible events that led to that actually happening.  Egwene was always strong willed, but none of the AS involved in the (logical) decision to bring her back as the AS (as listed above), knew how much she had grown (mostly in personal strength) in her time with the Aiel.  She didn't turn out to be controlable or biddable at all.  She has become one of my favorite characters, wonderfully developed.  She will be the main vehicle for making Rand's job "easier".

[Feral]

I think Egwene was actually quite a logical choice for the Aes Sedai. They wanted someone controlable to break the deadlock between Lelain(sp) and Romanda. When they last saw Egwene before hunting the Black Ajah and joining the Aiel she was eager to please every Aes Sedai she came across. Perfect choice for a puppet really.

[balefireruinssteaks]

While she certainly would be the longest reigning Amyrlin as one of the Aes Sedai stated, she isn't the only young Amyrlin that was chosen in an attempt at controlling the Seat through the Hall.

 

Siuan herself was only in her early-mid 30s when they raised her to the Seat.

 

I think it was logical to choose Egwene because the Aes Sedai were looking for someone they could manipulate but who had great strength, and the White Tower was abuzz with Egwene's potential when she came to the Tower. 

 

I'm glad she's holding her own though, I think Egwene's character has really grown well through the books.

[Harmless Bandit]

I thought the fact that Egwene grew up with the Dragon Reborn accounted for something as to why she was chosen?

[balefireruinssteaks]

i'm sure there were a lot of factors

 

*someone strong

*someone young, therefore controllable

*someone with whom they could make a tie/leash to the Dragon Reborn

 

maybe someone with brown hair, who knows?  hehe.

[Guest leebarr]

As much as its pains me to say Rand needs Egwene and the other girls in leadership roles.

[anamul]

The reason is a cold logic. The position she gained wasn't her achievment.

Rand is the first reason.If it not for Rand then they could have choses any one else from accepted.

 

And since RJ is making Rand a fool(all of a sudden, he was just fine til LOC)...he needed to make some one "cool". So he decided to reverse things a bit.

 

Like making EG cool and RJ fool. Don't forget, it is the writer who defines the character.

[Luckers]

Remember there are two different degrees here. One, what it was logical for the small council and the Hall to do, and two what it was logical for Siuan and Leane to do.

 

It doesn't really make sense for the Hall or the Council to consider an Accepted. Even in the height of their deadlock the Hall and the council both were too caught up in their own agendas--if they hadn't been then there wouldn't have been a deadlock and Egwene would not have been elected anyway.

 

But for Suian an Accepted makes a lot of strength. She needed someone she could influence and instruct, and a full sister of any type would not permit that--if only for the fact that Aes Sedai can't bring themselves to truely hear any non-Aes Sedai. It meant that Suian could manipulate, but never to a high degree. Thats what Egwene could have done--except that Suian herself didn't realise how much Egwene had grown.

 

In any case once there was an individual who would directly gain from Egwene it makes a great deal of sense. With the Hall deadlocked between Romanda and Lelaine no other sister could have gained the shawl--literally they were the two strongest Aes Sedai left--at least as far as the Rebels were concernd. The only way anyone could be raised past them is if they were of absolutely no threat to either woman. Enter Egwene. Stronger than either, yet still a 'child' and thus no threat. Pride is saved on both sides, and both sides see themself ending up in control.

[algspkr]

I thought that the little council selected Egwene even before the hall was selected.  Suian and Leanne came to Salidar and there was no hall or anything.  Suian said select a hall and have them select the an Amyrlin.  They suggested someone not in the Tower at the time of the split, and someone strong.  I believe we left this secene with Suian thinking that it should not be too much work to convince the little council to select someone they could guide, and that they would be guided by Suian herself.

 

Sometime later we overheard two of the little council talking.  They said something along the lines of:

It was hard enough to convince the hall to select a bidable choice, but if she is easy to guide what is to prevent the hall from guiding her.

 

When Egwene arrived she was told that she was selected because of Rand.

 

So the reasons I know of for Egwene's selection are:

-Strong in The Power

-Out of the Tower when it split

-Connected with Rand

-Easily manipulated

 

I believe that Rand's ta'vereness was partially due to her selection.

[Luckers]

Rand's ta'maral'ailen does not effect that far. We see the limits of its effects a couple of times, and whilst it does cover a conciderable distance--more when it interacts with the effects of Mat or Perrin's Webs--it would not cover the distance from Cairhein or Caemlyn to Salidar.

 

Ta'verenism is not dues ex machina guys. It simply loosens the pattern around the individual allowing for greater freedom for change.

 

the little council did select Egwene before the Hall, they actually created the Hall in order that they be able to raise Egwene--and for similar reasons as Suian... none of the six had any hope of gaining the stole--none had worn the shawl long enough, or had the strength to challange Romanda and Lelaine.

 

But it was Suian who had the true motives, Suian that waved Egwene about and made sure they realised she was there and an option. Yes, once she was brought to the Halls attention in the right way there were very good reasons to raise her, but without Suian i do concider it highly unlikely that any of the Aes Sedai would have thought of Egwene... They are all too wrapped up in their hierarchy and their own prestige to step outside of it.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Rand's ta'maral'ailen does not effect that far

UNUOTE

 

Ta'maral'ailen? What the hell is that?

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Ta'maral'ailen? What the hell is that?

 

His pull on the pattern.

 

I'm fairly sure I've seen it before, it's not just a Luckersism.  ;)

[The Lost One]

I always understood that more things would happen by chance around a Ta'veren - near vacinity.  But you are saying that after a certian distance that their Ta'verenism does not work on the pattern or situations?  I don't agree with that.  I can see how more things than normal happen close by, but I don't think their effect on the pattern would be limited by the distance of something or someone.  The effect might not be as great, but it would still be there.  

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

Im sorry but I don't remember seeing the word Ta'maral'ailen before, where is it from? When is it used?

 

As for the Egwene thing, I don't think Ta'verenness works like that. Suian Sanche would need to be deposed for Egwene to be raised Amyrlin, would that be down to Rands Ta'veren pull? The Tower needed to split, so was the split due to him being Ta'veren? Not really. It'd be like saying if Logain kills Taim and sorts out the situation with the Black Tower, then its down to Rand being Ta'veren because Logain effectively works for Rand.

[Majsju]

Yes, that's it. But sometimes the change chooses you, or the Wheel chooses it for you. And sometimes the Wheel bends a life-thread, or several threads, in such a way that all the surrounding threads are forced to swirl around it, and those force other threads, and those still others, and on and on. That first bending to make the Web, that is ta'veren, and there is nothing you can do to change it, not until the Pattern itself changes. The Web - ta'maral'ailen, it's called - can last for weeks, or for years. It can take in a town, or even the whole Pattern.

 

TEOTW, Ch 36

[trakand_01]

Also I wonder if Moiraine had some small fortelling in the EoTW, when she tells Egwene she could one day be Amyrlin Seat. Seems unlikely and unlike Moiraine to make such an off the cuff statement.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. If it werent for the fact that they didnt (and wouldnt) know that Egwene existed until they found Rand (the only one of the party that they knew DID exist, or would at some point) I would say that it would be interesting to learn if Sheriam, Moiraine, Siuan and Verin were all in cahoots. How fortunate to have Verin 'persuading' Aes Sedai to swear to Rand, and an Amyrlin who is a childhood friend of his, concerned for him and 'on his side'.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Yes, that's it. But sometimes the change chooses you, or the Wheel chooses it for you. And sometimes the Wheel bends a life-thread, or several threads, in such a way that all the surrounding threads are forced to swirl around it, and those force other threads, and those still others, and on and on. That first bending to make the Web, that is ta'veren, and there is nothing you can do to change it, not until the Pattern itself changes. The Web - ta'maral'ailen, it's called - can last for weeks, or for years. It can take in a town, or even the whole Pattern.

UNQUOTE

 

Fair enough I was wrong, thanks for the quote. So as it says the Web can last for years the Egwene becoming Amyrlin thing very well could have been a Ta'veren Web. Although I do still think that too many things about Egwene herself are crucial to her being selected.

 

-Strong in The Power

-Out of the Tower when it split

-Connected with Rand

-Easily manipulated

 

Her strength in the Power would have nothing to do with Ta'veren Webs, and neither is her connection to Rand himself. The fact that they think she will be easily manipulated is due to the facts that she is Accepted only, still young even by Accepted standards, and Aes Sedai are used to manipulating rulers, whereas Egwene is only still a girl in their eyes. The only thing on that list that might actually be down to Ta'veren is the fact that she wasn't in the Tower when it split. So, the Ta'veren thing very well was a possibilty, but I don't think it is the case here.

[trakand_01]

-Strong in The Power

-Out of the Tower when it split

-Connected with Rand

-Easily manipulated

 

 

And my, what a shock they got!

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

TEOTW, Ch 36

 

Cheers, fella. I couldn't find it and it was doing my head in.  ;D

[balefireruinssteaks]

I would say that it would be interesting to learn if Sheriam, Moiraine, Siuan and Verin were all in cahoots.

 

Verin joined Moiraine and Siuan in The Great Hunt when she revealed that she suspected they were up to something, which tells us that the three were not in cahoots until that point.  But other Aes Sedai had taken notice of strange behavior from Moiraine and Siuan (Cadsuane) and have kept tabs on them.

 

Whether Sheriam is in on it I can't say but it seems unlikely that they would involve her.

[42Bonzo88]

    Through all of this, I hope I haven't forgotten anyone, but did anyone bring up her journey through the arches to become an accepted. It has been stated many times, that Egwene is not Tav'eren, but my question is, Can she be someone from the past meant to come into the pattern at this particular time? Therefore, having the status of Dreamwalker and also the journey through the arches? Could the ter'angreal of hers have anything to do with it?

Just wondering...