Who Forasaken are masquerading as. Level 11 Spoilers

[Luckers]

Sorry again bud, but i stand by what i said. To claim that if your belief turns out to not be true then its only because RJ changed his mind is the very absolute height of arrogance.

 

And yes, I do look down on you because of it. I'm sorry about that. The rest of what you said is unrelated as far as I can tell. I don't have an issue with your position, i have an issue ith your claims of absolutism.

 

 

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Further, Sammael comments that Demandred is in the habit of using proxies

UNQUOTE

 

I reckon the main proxies Demandred has used are Mazrim Taim and Masema. The Masema thing I cant remember what made me think that but I do.

 

As for Mazrim Taim...I recall a part in the later books when Aran'gar is talking to Osan'gar. Aran'gar says "It was your job to watch Al'Thor. Yours and Demandreds." And from what Ive seen, Demandred is a little less confrontational than I had been hoping for. (Look at the cleansing. He fled because Flynn equalled him when linked to an Aes Sedai). Add that to Taim knowing all the Forsaken sayings and tricks with the Power and it made me think Taim is Demandreds proxy. Whether Taim did it willingly or not can be debated but I would say Taim is a wanabe Forsaken and he gets all the Forsaken-ness from Demandred

[Mr Ares]

Mr Ares, sorry about the name thing. I tend to do things properly, that is to how I was taught, not remembering that grammar rules are different on-line, and people spell things pretty much how they darn please. To my mind Mr should always be followed by a period(fullstop, I believe is the British term), but it is your name, and I will try to remember. I guess you missed my joke, or decided to ignore it; when I said FOR THE FIRST TIME, I was hinting that you had not actually posted it earlier. I was sure you had, but...Sheesh! jokes are a lot funnier in person. Easier to tell, too. Sometimes it's confusing how some people post their posts, and my browser is in need of update. That's why I missed it, I'm sure.

I'm glad you understood my logic, but you seem to think there is no evidence; I have pretty much presented all the evidence I can. You disagree with mine interpretation....I guess we'll have to wait until RJ's birthday after next.

I also tend to do things correctly (well, more or less...) and here, on the correct side of the Atlantic, the absence of the punctuation mark correctly called a full stop and incorrectly called a period is entirely correct in cases such as this, and is not just a case of incorrect internet grammar. Nevertheless, I accept that schools over in America are somewhat behind the times, and so I will let it go with a relatively painless death for you *shoots Asgard Thorin with a 3 inch shell* I understood your joke, even if you were unable to recognize the levity present within my own.

 

Regards, Mr Ares, Dictator for Life of Dragonmount.

 

p.s. (or p.p.?) I hope this post meets your demanding standards. I would hate to think that I was doing things improperly.

[aevogt]

.  This is a decimal point.  Any non mathmatical use is naturally wrong.

[Guest cw]

Depends on who you are talking too.  It isn't a universal indication of a decimal.  Some cultures use commas for that.

[aevogt]

Didn't think of that until after I had posted.  A little Americentric bias showing up.

[Asgard Thorin]

Nevertheless, I accept that shools over in America are somewhat behind the times, and so I will let it go with a relatively painless death for you *shoots Asgard Thorin with a 3 inch shell* I understood your joke, even if you were unable to recognize the levity present within my own.

 

Regards, Mr Ares, Dictator for Life of Dragonmount.

 

p.s. (or p.p.?) I hope this post meets your demanding standards. I would hate to think that I was doing things improperly.

 

Mr Ares, What are shools? ;) And if you're Dictator for Life, I humbly suggest it should be Mr! Ares(no period still). I thought the subtlety might have been there(left myself that hedged bet.) Not bad for an American.  :)

[Asgard Thorin]

.  This is a decimal point.  Any non mathmatical use is naturally wrong.

 

Including in internet addresses!!!!! ;D

[Mr Ares]

Nevertheless, I accept that schools over in America are somewhat behind the times, and so I will let it go with a relatively painless death for you *shoots Asgard Thorin with a 3 inch shell* I understood your joke, even if you were unable to recognize the levity present within my own.

 

Regards, Mr Ares, Dictator for Life of Dragonmount.

 

p.s. (or p.p.?) I hope this post meets your demanding standards. I would hate to think that I was doing things improperly.

Mr Ares, What are shools? ;) And if you're Dictator for Life, I humbly suggest it should be Mr! Ares(no period still). I thought the subtlety might have been there(left myself that hedged bet.) Not bad for an American.  :)

Shools? I don't know. Possibly something like: Bel'al, Hopper(book, period(fullstop, Tsutuma(msp?), Craftmanship? If you wish to level criticism at my spelling, maybe you should make sure your own is abouve reproach (oh, and I'm sure you meant book rather than level 11 spoilers, and so have adjusted accordingly). And I do not approve of your suggested adaptation of my name.

[Asgard Thorin]

Nevertheless, I accept that schools over in America are somewhat behind the times, and so I will let it go with a relatively painless death for you *shoots Asgard Thorin with a 3 inch shell* I understood your joke, even if you were unable to recognize the levity present within my own.

 

Regards, Mr Ares, Dictator for Life of Dragonmount.

 

p.s. (or p.p.?) I hope this post meets your demanding standards. I would hate to think that I was doing things improperly.

Mr Ares, What are shools? ;) And if you're Dictator for Life, I humbly suggest it should be Mr! Ares(no period still). I thought the subtlety might have been there(left myself that hedged bet.) Not bad for an American.  :)

Shools? I don't know. Possibly something like: Bel'al, Hopper(book, period(fullstop, Tsutuma(msp?), Craftmanship? If you wish to level criticism at my spelling, maybe you should make sure your own is abouve reproach (oh, and I'm sure you meant book rather than level 11 spoilers, and so have adjusted accordingly). And I do not approve of your suggested adaptation of my name.

 

Apparently it was not apparent that I was joking. Nor was I criticizing your spelling. That was also a joke; I have no beef with anyone on here, not even those who have said I was "absolutist" despite the number of times I have said I could be wrong. No, I actually decided to use level instead of book. No real reason. I just did. I'm almost sorry I started this topic....

 

What Forsaken secret identities remain to be exposed? (I'd try to figure it out, but I 'm to busy dodging cyberfire.)

[Mr Ares]

I'm almost sorry I started this topic....

And so you should be.

 

What Forsaken secret identities remain to be exposed? (I'd try to figure it out, but I 'm to busy dodging cyberfire.)

Well, I shall try to refrain from humour  lest it go over your head, so:

Ishamael - wasn't posing as anyone, DEAD, became Moridin

Aginor - wasn't posing as anyone, DEAD, became Osan'gar

Balthamel - wasn't posing as anyone, DEAD, became Aran'gar

Lanfear - various disguises, DEAD, became Cyndane

Rahvin - posing as Gaebril, DEAD, not coming back

Sammael - posing as Brend, DEAD, almost certainly not coming back

Demandred - identity unknown (if he has one), alive and at large

Graendal - posing as Basene, alive and at large

Semirhage - was posing as Anath, captured

Mesaana - identity unknown (Danelle is most likely), alive and at large

Moghedien - not posing as anyone, alive and leashed

Be'lal - posing as Samon, DEAD, not coming back

Asmodean - posing as Jasin Natael, DEAD, not coming back

Moridin - not posing as anyone, alive and at large

Cyndane - not posing as anyone, alive and leashed

Osan'gar - was posing as Dashiva, DEAD, almost certainly not coming back

Aran'gar - was posing as Halima, exposed and on the run but still alive and at large

 

So that leaves Mesaana's alter ego, and the question of whether Demandred even bothered becoming someone else. Everyone else is accounted for. Happy now?

[flippinaces]

Are you suggesting that Be'lal was posing as Samon and Taim at the same time, or took over being Taim after he was killed?

 

I know traveling makes things easier, but I'd find it hard to pose as a man in a cage on the road from Saldaea to TV, and pose as a high lord in the stone of Tear simultaneously.

[Darth_Andrea]

Are you suggesting that Be'lal was posing as Samon and Taim at the same time, or took over being Taim after he was killed?

 

I know traveling makes things easier, but I'd find it hard to pose as a man in a cage on the road from Saldaea to TV, and pose as a high lord in the stone of Tear simultaneously.

 

 

While RJ seems to have left a little wiggle room on the subject, Be`lal was balefired and has little chance of comming back. Taim is more than likely a dread lord possiably risen to chosen after Ba`lal's death. Though I have seen speculation he was a darkfriend Aes`Sedi from the age of legends who was put in a stasis box and found either by Ishameal or Ba`lal and set lose on the world.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]     

[Luckers]

Mr. Ares, your going too far--and thats coming from me. Cool it.

[flippinaces]

Mr. Ares, your going too far--and thats coming from me. Cool it.

 

uhoh, you used a period.

[Luckers]

I also used a reference to hypocrisy. Sue me.

[Asgard Thorin]

Are you suggesting that Be'lal was posing as Samon and Taim at the same time, or took over being Taim after he was killed?

 

I know traveling makes things easier, but I'd find it hard to pose as a man in a cage on the road from Saldaea to TV, and pose as a high lord in the stone of Tear simultaneously.

 

I was suggesting that Taim's body was used to house Bel'al's transmigrated soul, meaning that he was freed by the Black Ajah and taken to S. Ghul in much the same way Halima's living corpse must have been(or Luc for that matter). Mr Ares, it seems I hit one of your buttons or pet peeves, whichever you prefer, much more strongly than any of mine were hit. For that, I truly, truly apologize.

Luckers....thank you for your last comments.

So, if I may sum up what's happened so far in the discussion, Demandred is not been revealed yet, his guise, that is(if he had one) Semirhage was Anath Dorje, Mesaana we don't know for sure yet, though there's a good case for Danelle(from the FAQ, if I believe) though Javindhra was suggested, and any other guises of the other Forsaken before any were recycled/transmigrated are non-existent, irrelevant, or both. As for Taim, the largest consensus, plus a good deal of evidence, points to him being elevated from this age, not the last.

So, if Taim is Taim, not Bel'al or Moridin, does anyone have any idea who or if Moridin has shown himself to us in disguise? If so, he was whom?

[Majsju]

So, if Taim is Taim, not Bel'al or Moridin, does anyone have any idea who or if Moridin has shown himself to us in disguise? If so, he was whom?

 

I'm quite convinced Moridin is being just himself. Being Nae'blis, combined with similar effects from the BF crossing as Rand experiences does not leave him much room to prance around posing as someone.

[Luckers]

Indeed. There seems to be a solid effort by the shadow to organise itself, and Moridin, through Cyndane and Moghedian, seems to be the one directly involved.

[Mr Ares]

Mr Ares, it seems I hit one of your buttons or pet peeves, whichever you prefer, much more strongly than any of mine were hit. For that, I truly, truly apologize.

There's no need to apologize, you didn't "hit my buttons". None of my comments were intended to cause offence, and if they did then I will try to make sure it doesn't happen again. As you yourself commented earlier in the thread, jokes are easier to tell in person, so it was probably a simple misunderstanding of my intentions. I will attempt to be clearer in future.

[Asgard Thorin]

Ah. Double reverse subtlety. I'm glad I did not offend "push buttons".

 

Who so far, is every one's favorite Forsaken? And who's the baddest?

 

Addendum: Majsju (et al), what convinces you, exactly that Taim is a new SemiChosen, instead of one of the men from of Old(say Moridin; let's leave Bel'al out of it for a while).

[Majsju]

 

Addendum: Majsju (et al), what convinces you, exactly that Taim is a new SemiChosen, instead of one of the men from of Old(say Moridin; let's leave Bel'al out of it for a while).

 

Moridin would be the only possible choice. All other male channelers are either dead, or quite occupied elsewhere. Except for Demandred, and we have statements from RJ shooting that one down.

 

Which leaves Moridin...And there are so many things against him that I almost don't know where to start...

 

Ishy was busy being dead when Taim escaped and made his way to Caemlyn. RJ has given us the reasons why Taim decided to come to Caemlyn in the first place, and those are reasons that does not exactly apply to a recycled forsaken planning to infiltrate Rands inner circle. The timing is completely off.

 

Moridin is quite occupied being Nae'blis. Running the BT at the same time would be quite the challenge, to say the least.

 

Moridin has his little TP addiction, and seems to use it exclusively after him and Rands encounter in ACOS. The Ashaman might have started to wionder if they had seen Taim channeling without anyone seeing any flows...

 

Moridins need for disguise. Always using the exact same MoM for disguise, as well as changing the voice, accent, speechpattern in the exact same way is hard enough as it is. Even harder for Moridin, who happens to be a tad, you know, insane.

 

And those are just the most blatant things, there are a number of finer details as well.

[aussie_ashaman123]

there were, in fact, more than 20 Forsaken, about 30 i think. the 13 that found themselves in the bore were the 13 survivors. I think Taim is the new dreadlord, not quite forsaken, but dreadlords have the power to order shadowspawn around (Dreadlords were the generals in the trolloc wars). Demandred is still out there, probably too arrogant to disguise himself. Moridin is Ishamael, not quite as insane, but dying probably gave him a jolt of sanity. Graendal is still in Arad Doman, and if given the chance, will lock herself away with her playthings while the last battle rages. I always knew Annath was Simerhage, she would want a disguise that lets her inflict pain on people. Moridin has no need for a disguise. moghedien will get the sould jar thing back, i think shes not as cowardly as she used to be.

[Luckers]

No, the Dreadlords were given the authority to order Shadowspawn, but they never had the Chosen Mark and Shadowspawn were not compelled to obey them. The only ones who ever had that power were the 29 Chosen.

 

The reason people suggest Taim to have been raised Chosen is because he is the most probable choice for the man behind the attack in Tear, and that man had the Chosen Mark.

[Majsju]

The only ones who ever had that power were the 29 Chosen.

 

Chosen was the name all Aes Sedai who went over to the shadow gave themselves, and I am quite certain there were a few more than 29. The 29 you are thinking of are the ones granted access to TP.