Why is Wheel of Time good?

[Rodrik]

Now, a few months ago two friends suggested WoT to me, saying that I should read the first 6 or so books, since it went downhill afterwards. I had heard of the series, so I borrowed the first 4 books from my friend.

 

Well, today I finally finished The Shadow Rising, and I must ask: What's with all the hype? It was a decent read, but I don't understand how people can think it's an amazing series. I am told that these first 4 books were among the best of the series, so, is there something I am missing here? Let me explain my problems with the series:

 

Writing: I enjoyed Robert Jordan's prose and lack of repition in his descriptions (Other than the skirt smoothing and braid tugging, which needed to be cut back down on a lot to prevent it from becoming annoying) But he seems to have a complete inability to summarize. It wasn't too bad once I got used to it, but very little actually happened in the thousands of pages. Fight scenes were good, but the intrigue was pretty damn poor.

 

Characters: I didn't think they were poorly written, but they were rather sub-par. Most of the characters seem to have fit personality types: Blacksmith, gambeler, and rarely go out of the box. The romance scenes I thought were ridiculously childish, and the characters act like women and men are alien beings, which I found very juvenille. The women in general annoyed the hell out of me, seeming to nothing but bicker and or complain about men stupidly.

 

Worldbuilding: The worldbuilding was pretty good, and immersive, but I didn't see any really new concepts in it; Black Riders, Fremen. The concept of the Wheel itself was interesting, but just an edited version of the Wheel of Time of dharmic religions. Perhaps the main fault I found in the worldbuilding was how weak the religions are. All in all, it was pretty good, but could've been better.

 

Plot: I don't mind the Good vs Evil type plots, but it seemed to drag and drag and drag. The pacing was nowhere near as good as in Song of Ice and Fire. Plotlines seemed to get introduced, then just vanish.

 

I mean, it has great potential...but it has dire need of some massive editing.

[Kadere]

Sorry you didn't like it. Guess it just takes a certain something to become a hard core fan.

 

What's terrific about the series is the fact that you can just get lost in it. It all fits together and seems to breath. The characters really aren't as stereotyped as you make them out to be, and if you read farther into the series (since you've only finished the first act of the series) you'll see them change emensly later on. If you find the pacing slow in the first four books though, I recommend (STRONGLY) to not proceed, the books get slower as you go along. I'm also sorry you didn't like the intrege, I thought there was a LOT of it, and it really propelled me through the first 6 books or so.

 

The reason people like it as I said before is because itacts like a real world. The characters fit a certain place in the imagination where you feel like you've known them since before you were born. For me, reading the books was like finding a high school year book I'd lost. It just feels like a story I've heard before, and want to hear again and again.

 

Anyway, sorry you didn't like it.

[Rodrik]

It's not that I didn't like it; I enjoyed it. I think that it has too many flaws to be considered 'great' however. It's High School writing compared to Song of Ice and Fire.

 

It was an immersive read, and was kind of easy to get 'lost' in it, but the world was under developed in my standards.

[BSDBovine]

too bad you did not like it. It is very easy to get into the books, but it will get slower. But like every series, there are people that will not like it.

[Graendals favourite]

In this series, rereading will change how things appear. Despite that there's much building-up compared to obvious action, I think RJ writes very tightly. A lot of things happen off-scene, or are only hinted on or mentioned in passing, but they still happen, and may well have an impact later on other plotlines. 'Song' tends to concentrate on what actually happens, but here we get more background and get to know the people more deeply, I think. And, quite realisticly, we still won't know all. For example, I would very much like to know what Moghedien's true plan was in Tanchico. But yea, 'tis a matter of taste what one likes.

[Jackalyn]

It is a matter of taste, but i suggest you at least read the next book. To me it's the place where every thing took a hard left turn. The character's become a lot less sterotypical.

[Rodrik]

In this series' date=' rereading will change how things appear. Despite that there's much building-up compared to obvious action, I think RJ writes very tightly. A lot of things happen off-scene, or are only hinted on or mentioned in passing, but they still happen, and may well have an impact later on other plotlines. 'Song' tends to concentrate on what actually happens, but here we get more background and get to know the people more deeply, I think. And, quite realisticly, we still won't know all. For example, I would very much like to know what Moghedien's true plan was in Tanchico. But yea, 'tis a matter of taste what one likes.[/quote']

 

Song has a lot more background information for the characters, and there is definately a lot of stuff going on in the background, with very, very subtle hints to some of the things. (Which is one of the reasons why I think Song is such an amazing series, because there are things you'll never notice even on your 4th re-read.)

[Leafburner]

I wasn't very impressed with Song of Ice and Fire. It's all good. Different people have different tastes.

 

I personally love an epic. So the longer this story goes on the more tense I feel for the chracters involved. I feel like I've been there every step of the way with them and I'm just hoping that soon they'll have a chance to breath and relax.

 

I'm hoping I get that chance soon, too.

[Graendals favourite]

Rodrik, I quite enjoy Song, though I'm only into the third volume, so I can't really compare, I suppose. Still I feel more at home in WoT, and I like the way the foreshadowings let us see what may come and still be surprised.

 

Yea, to relax knowing things will be all right, in the end, for most of them at least. And that Graendal will get to Nae'blis. It should be quite some ending, even though there aren't any endings or beginnings, at least unless the Dark One actually wins.

[Guest Froix]

Worldbuilding: The worldbuilding was pretty good' date=' and immersive, but I didn't see any really new concepts in it; Black Riders, Fremen.[/quote']

 

New concepts? You've gotta be kidding me.

 

Threads in a pattern?

Taveren?

Saidin?

Saidar?

Warder's bond?

Ter-angreals?

Angreals?

 

You did say you enjoyed it. Keep going. You might really like it. Keep an open mind.

[Leafburner]

I agree Froix, there is still a great deal to happen. I would give it a chance.

 

I have known so many people who have become addicted to this series, it can't be a fluke. There is something about it that grabs your attention. My girlfriend has just started The Dragon Reborn and she can't stop! She's losing sleep trying to get it read - she loves it! I've never seen anyone go after books like this.

 

I guess it's not for everyone, sure. But I can understand why people recommended you read it. But it's no big deal if it's not your cup of tea.

 

I thought Clash of Kings was alright, but Storm of Swords didn't grab me.

[Angel of Death]

Yeah, it takes something to be a hard core fan. Intellegence.

 

No. Seriously, i think you need to be the right person for it, either you like or you don't. One more thing - never come here again :lol: jk

[Barnabas]

i found that the first read through i was just getting my feet with what was happening, especially with the first book or two. but once youve read the whole series u can really appreciate how some stuff links in through the series, especially if you decide to read it again, id advise reading at least until book 6 and see how you go

[SinisterDeath]

This sounds to me like another little post from those song of fire & ice lovers trying to convert us!

Blasphemy I say!

[Sirayn]

Froix-

 

Threads in a pattern: I hope you're not crediting Jordan with the idea of predestination. ;)

Ta'veren: Plot device and a shallow one at that. Can't think of a way for your hopeless teenager to win the day? Ta'veren do it automatically.

Saidin & Saidar: Standard fantasy magic.

Warder bond: The concept of a soul bond has been around for years. Jordan just gave it a different title.

Angreal, sa'angreal & ter'angreal: different names for fancy magic artefacts.

 

Rodrik-

 

I agree with just about all of your points there. I think the only disagreement I'd make is with your assessment of the world building. I mean, cultures splitting a thousand years ago and retaining exactly the same language? Straight line mountain ranges that meet at right angles? That's not my idea of pretty good worldbuilding. Word on the pacing, the characterisation, the plotting and the writing.

[Kadere]

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jellybelly]

Froix-

 

Threads in a pattern: I hope you're not crediting Jordan with the idea of predestination. ;)

Ta'veren: Plot device and a shallow one at that. Can't think of a way for your hopeless teenager to win the day? Ta'veren do it automatically.

Saidin & Saidar: Standard fantasy magic.

Warder bond: The concept of a soul bond has been around for years. Jordan just gave it a different title.

Angreal' date=' sa'angreal & ter'angreal: different names for fancy magic artefacts.

 

Rodrik-

 

I agree with just about all of your points there. I think the only disagreement I'd make is with your assessment of the world building. I mean, cultures splitting a thousand years ago and retaining exactly the same language? Straight line mountain ranges that meet at right angles? That's not my idea of pretty good worldbuilding. Word on the pacing, the characterisation, the plotting and the writing.[/quote']

 

We can always disagree on the characterisation, plotting and writing. There I am sure most of us disagree with you out of personal preference.

 

However, a lot of other things have more clear-cut arguments going for them. The mountain ranges meeting at right angles has to do with how this world did not evolve through millions of years, but was molded by madmen.

 

Your comment about the language shows you are not a linguist. It is not a stretch to say that a people who talked the same language and was then separated, would not speak a language that was mutually intelligible a thousand years later. The Old Tongue spoken at Hawkwing's time deteriorated both in Seanchan and Randland, and is as mentioned mutually intelligible. Parallell development.

 

And I definitely disagree with your assessment of the concept of ta'veren. I actually find it quite an interesting plot device. It is not the magically-make-everything-right device that you depict it as.

 

Also,I do not know about you guys, but I never read another fantasy that had as complex magic-system. The interplay between males and females resulting from it, Saidin being tainted, men being (mildly) repressed over the course of the years as a result of it, the fact that it causes men using it to go mad. Seems pretty original to me.

 

Also, the threads in the pattern simile does not credit Jordan with the invention of predeterminism. In fact, I would argue that major things in WoT is NOT predetermined. I'd say that predeterminism stretches to who are destined to be the major players, nothing else. Every action taken by someone is not predetermined. There is still choice, as RJ's comments indicate.

[Inara]

for me the magic of the wheel of time is in it the world that is built for it and the amazingly tight writing throughout

this is not something RJ has been making up as he goes along and rereads will confirm this

the characters are not 2D, they are very well shaped, how special and different can your childhood be if your farmer? the upbringing that each person has and the evnts in their life shape them all into wonderfully complex beings that are intertwined with other characters to a degree that can be disarming if you dont pay attention.

 

i think WoT is series for patient, intelligent people with a working knowlege (or at the least a cursary understanding) of the mythologies and legends of our own world. without these alot of people miss out on the magic....it is sad.

 

so Rodrik, i pity you. but each to his own.

[Talya]

When I first picked up TEotW (it was in two books) I thought it was a one off and decided to give it a go. I enjoy it so much because it created a new world for me and his writing took me there instantly. I didn't mind at all when I found out there were another 9 (at the time that is). Usually when I have read a really good book I always feel really sad at finishing it...but this book went on and on and got me even more into his world. It has had me captivated the whole way....including the later books. I think when the ending does comes it will be bittersweet.

 

I do like the way he writes about the characters....yes some are annoying but that is the same with normal life....some people you like better than others.

 

I haven't read Fire and Ice (I'm new to fantasy) so I cannot compare the two. Slowly I'm reading thorough different fantasy books all of which I have enjoyed....but I still find WoT the most intriging and can't keep away from it....plus you get to meet some wonderful people on sites like this.

[Blade]

Rodrik, I would say definitely keep reading. You haven't gotten to the good stuff yet. I first read wheel of time just for the storyline, but after re-reading it a few times, there are so many things that he'll put in a book that are important to story line that you never notice. Part of the reason I love the books so much is because you never know what he's going to do. Just look at all the theories out there. Sometimes those plotlines he creates and then disappear will re-appear a book or two later and it'll be incredibly significant, but you won't know it until you read it in the later book.

 

I would say you haven't gotten out of the slow parts yet. I thought the first three books were a little less exciting than the middle books. It was right around book four that I believe everything started getting 'exciting' for me. Don't get me wrong, I still liked the first few books, but the middle ones are where it's at for me.

[Rodrik]

for me the magic of the wheel of time is in it the world that is built for it and the amazingly tight writing throughout

this is not something RJ has been making up as he goes along and rereads will confirm this

the characters are not 2D' date=' they are very well shaped, how special and different can your childhood be if your farmer? the upbringing that each person has and the evnts in their life shape them all into wonderfully complex beings that are intertwined with other characters to a degree that can be disarming if you dont pay attention.

 

i think WoT is series for patient, intelligent people with a working knowlege (or at the least a cursary understanding) of the mythologies and legends of our own world. without these alot of people miss out on the magic....it is sad.

 

so Rodrik, i pity you. but each to his own.[/quote']

 

One of the faults in WoT I found was that it wasn't an intelligent read. It was just a lot of hack and slash without the depth of say, Dune.

[Kadere]

can you point out this "hack and slash"? I'm reading this series again for the fourth time and I can't find it. The fight scenes are few and far between, and in between them RJ spends hundreds of pages developing character and expanding the history and culture of his world. I mean heck, after book two you don't see that many trollocs. I don't know, when I think hack and slash, I think Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind. WoT has a LOT more to it then that.

[Mad Season]

One of the faults in WoT I found was that it wasn't an intelligent read. It was just a lot of hack and slash without the depth of say' date=' Dune.[/quote']

 

Well I've read WoT and ASOIAF, they both have many plots that aren't spelled out. I wouldn't say ASOIAF is more complicated that WoT, if you think so you just need to read more carefully. Sure ASOIAF has questions like who are Jon's parents, who will be the three dragon riders etc., but WoT has just as many. Most Forsaken plot lines are barely shown directly and have to be figured out, theres many more Prophecies that can try to be explained etc. To say WoT is less intelligent means you either havn't read it or you totally missed the complexity of the series while you skimmed it.

 

And you can't expect the first 4 books, where the characters are mostly farm boys and such, to have as much intrigue as ASOIAF where the main characters are lords and kings, later in WoT there is an increase in politics and schemes.

[Jellybelly]

One of the faults in WoT I found was that it wasn't an intelligent read. It was just a lot of hack and slash without the depth of say' date=' Dune.[/quote']

 

No offense, but you must have been drunk while reading. Hack and slash is the last thing you could call WoT.

 

I am guessing you missed something significant.

[Jedimuppet]

One of the faults in WoT I found was that it wasn't an intelligent read. It was just a lot of hack and slash without the depth of say' date=' Dune.[/quote']

 

No offense, but you must have been drunk while reading. Hack and slash is the last thing you could call WoT.

 

I am guessing you missed something significant.

 

Sometimes I think WoT is more complicated than intelligent. Not to say it's dumb, but it's certainly fast, and easier to absorb than say Tolkien or Moorcock. The vocabulary and grammar are sort of young adultish. I do like it, but it's not exactly highbrow.

J