Is one of these women a Darkfriend - The evidence keeps piling up

[aevogt]

In TDR, Nyneave and Egwene are in with Suian Sanche after their return to the tower and are given the task of hunting the Black Ajah.

 

They are attacked by the Gray Man (or Men) as soon as they return to the Novice quarters.  Who knew to have an assassin waiting there to split their skulls for them. 

 

Who, other than Suian (not a DF) and some random male servents, knew they were even back in the tower. 

 

Verin - let's not get started on that one, Verin is not a DF, her POV's are pretty clear.  If she was Black, Verin could have killed all three, plus Mat and Hurin, in their sleep at any time on the journey from Toman Head.

 

Sheriam - She would have been striping Elayne's backside at the time, but showed up shortly thereafter to find a dead man in the novice quarters and "her serenity was gone for once" unless it was an act.  We know there is some type of darkness in Sheriam's life from her POV in Chapter 16 of tPoD and Min's viewing at the beginning of TSR.  Her reaction to discovering it was a dead Gray Man, rather than just an ordinary assassin, did not seem false.  However as Ny points out, Sheriam did not mention that he had been stabbed, almost as if she already knew.  Min's viewing could have been the beating she took from lelaine

 

Leanne - Unaccounted for after leaving the Study.  Also, has no POV scenes in any of the 11 books to show her true mind.  We know tha RJ, while he will misdirect us, he will never actually lie.  If someone has no POV scenes, (Ingtar Shinowa for intance) it's probably because they are hiding something that RJ doesn't want to talk about yet.  Elza is a perfect example of this.  Once he wants us to know what she is, she has a POV sequence and spills the beans.  Beans?  She could easily have run to Danelle (Mesanna) and set up the ambush.

 

Faolain or Theodrin - no POV's from either woman through 11 books and neither is a full sister.  Unlikely.  The only Acceopted we know of who had already knowingly closen black before being raised was Liandrin.  However, since these two attach themselves to Egwene as Amrylin, there is the possibility that one or both are not what they appear to be.

 

Apple-cheeked Accepted - Very probably the subject of Min's viewing at the beginning of TSR concerning "An apple-cheeked Accepted - bars floated in front of her face like a cage"  Maybe she's the DF and gets busted in AMoL.  Hmmm, Interesting.

 

There is however another theory.  Mesanna, though not making a personal appearance, has by this time certainly dug herself in the Tower.  No mention is made of a ward against eavesdropping around Suian's study.  It could have been a simple case that Mesanna knows everything that goes on in there.

 

 

[Majsju]

Based on what has been said in the books:

Verin - No

Sheriam - Quite unlikely

Leane - No

Faolain - No

Theodrin - ?

[aevogt]

Got any quotes to back that up?

[Majsju]

The reponsibility to provide quotes lies on you, since you are the one making a claim.

For me, with the exception of Verin and faolin (She is pretty much cleared by Mins viewing about her having a pleasant future), I see absolutely nothing that would be worth raising the big suspect-flag over. Possibly with Sheriam as a minor exception, she does behave a bit odd towards the end, but that might just as well be because Lelaine is beating the crap out of her.

 

As long as I don't smell any smoke or see any flames, I'm going to assume the house is not on fire.

[Tyrell]

Are we sure its lelaine beating the crap outta her? I thought that was currently unresolved.

[Cybertrolloc]

Are we sure its lelaine beating the crap outta her? I thought that was currently unresolved.

We don't have a witness. The only thing we have is chapter 1 of KoD, which makes it pretty obvious (Lelaine has gone on about Questioning in the past).

[aevogt]

Majsju, you simply said no, these people aren't DFs without offering a shred of evidence.  Generally when I disagree with someone, I try to back it up rather than just saying "no".

 

Faolin may have a perfectly pleasant future as a Darkfriend if she never gets found out or pisses off one of the Chosen.  I hardly think that removes suspicion.

 

Leanne as a DF answers more questions than it raises.

 

Who had the opportunity and motive set up the ambush?  Leanne Sharif

 

Who may have betrayed Egwene at the harbor?  Leanne Sharif

 

Who didn't finish her job at Southharbor?  Leanne Sharif

 

Who has been Suian Sanche's shadow, and therefore a perfectly placed spy, since book 2  Leanne Sharif

 

Who manages to snag the job of E&E manager for the SAS?  Leanne Sharif

 

Who had unrestricted access to TAR via a dream Ter Angreal?  Leanne Sharif

 

Who has conveniently been without a pesky Warder for 15 years?  Leanne Sharif

 

Who is now perfectly placed to be told and report everything Egwene does as a captive in the Tower?  Leanne Sharif

 

All circumstantial true enough, kind of like the "Who killed Asmodean" debate.

 

[lou]

slayer takes credit for killing a grey man in the tower, but why would an assassin for the darkside kill another assassin of the darkside? who, other than the forsaken commands the grey men?

 

i happen to agree with you on the possibilty that leane is black. the other questions i would like to see answered about leane would be: why is she being treated like a long lost child, instead of a woman convicted of treason, which is what she was stilled for. wasnt she to be executed with suian before the great escape?

[Mat is Better]

Elayne is obviously a darkfriend.  Her children will be trollocs. Rand will go into a raging madness and kill her.  Then he will say "Oh my Elayne...what have I done!?!?"  Then he will channel a huge amount of the OP and make another dragonmount.  Then Lews Therin will laugh at him.  THE END.

[Baldar]

I still have a strong suspicion that one of the main non-POV characters is a DF.

 

Personally, I think it's Leanne, and maybe Sheriam too.

[Majsju]

Majsju, you simply said no, these people aren't DFs without offering a shred of evidence.  Generally when I disagree with someone, I try to back it up rather than just saying "no".

 

You missed the part where I said Based on what has been said in the books. There is not a shred of evidence against any of those you mentioned in the books. Thus No.

 

If everyone who did something odd was a DF, the DO would win on walkover.

 

[Guest leebarr]

Sherian is a darkfriend. Just before Ewgene's party when to the frozen lake who was waiting in Sherian's tent to ask her questions, then beat her so she was uncomfortable on a horse.

Verin acts very very wierd. I think she is one as well. I think she is a forsaken's eyes and ears. In KoD why did Verin disapear just before the acttack.

But hopefully all will be reveiled in AMOL

[Tyrell]

Verin is a DF? You have read her PoV's?

[Mat is Better]

I haven't read the books for a while (don't worry I'm going to) so I can't provide any actual evidence, but I remember being pretty convinced that Sheriam was a DF.  So I believe Sheriam is a DF.  The rest of you can RAFO  ;D

[Kirjava Daemora]

Sheriam has something about her. I'm not convinced that she is a DF but there's something strange. She acts strangely through the last few books constantly. Whether it's DF activity or not, who knows.

 

Leane...It never crossed my mind that it could be her at all to be honest, but it's a good point of view and lots of evidence seems to point that way. So, Leane is a definate possibility.

 

Verin! Well, to start there was that bit in TGH that you'll all be aware of. She states that Moiraine sent her, but then Moiraine denies it at the end of the book, so one of them has to be lying. Also, at several points during the book, she knows things that she really shouldn't be able to know. However, through her PoVs I don't think she's a DF. But she's strange. And there's more to her than RJ said.

[Majsju]

Sheriams behaviour can be explained relatively easily be Lelaine beating her up for info, and possibly in an attempt to bully her into trying to push Egwene one way or the other, something Sheriam should know she will have little chance to do.

 

That Verin seems so odd, I think it is very much because she has quite a streak of Blue in her. We have been led throughout the books to see Browns as the people who are so concerned with their books that they might not even notice if TG came and went. But Verin is taking an active part in the events of the world. Basically, she's acting almost like a Blue, but with the knowledge of a dedicated Brown.

 

Leane...Seriously, I don't see anything that would be even circumstancial in her behaviour.

And the coup speaks volumes in her defence. If she had been Black, why the heck remove her from the board? The Keeper of the Amyrlin who really is deeply involved with the events. Not to mengtion that Stilling her means all the Oaths are gone, so had she been Black she could have spilled the beans on everything.

[aevogt]

Majsju, you simply said no, these people aren't DFs without offering a shred of evidence.  Generally when I disagree with someone, I try to back it up rather than just saying "no".

 

You missed the part where I said Based on what has been said in the books. There is not a shred of evidence against any of those you mentioned in the books. Thus No.

 

If everyone who did something odd was a DF, the DO would win on walkover.

 

 

 

So by that logic, no one is a DF unless we're told they are in print.  Ingtar was a DF but we don't find out until the end of TGH.  If you read TGH looking at him to be a DF, the clues are there.  All the evidence against Leanne is circumstantial, true, but all the evidence that Graendal killed Asmodean is circumstantial as well but that does not invalidate the theory. 

 

I personally don't think Sheriam is a DF.  With Leanne however, there are too many things that point to her to rule it out entirely.

 

I'm still curious about the apple cheeked Accepted in Min's viewing. 

[Luckers]

On the initial topic, any of a number of people could have witnessed the Wonder Girls return and reported it. Guardsmen, Groomsmen, random people looking out of windows.

 

Here are things as i recall them to stand.

 

Verin - Is not a darkfriend. This one is pretty much set in stone since we not only have her actions--compelling Aes Sedai to aid Rand, intending to kill Cadsuane but pausing when she heard her opinions on Rand, mentally dancing around the truth when speaking with Beldeine--but on top of that we have her own direct POV. So, not a darkfriend.

 

Leane - Is probably not a darkfriend. Or at the very least is the most ineffective darkfriend around. But the main reason i dont buy it is her integrity. I think Leane is someone who lost herself in the roll of the Keeper and only when that was ripped away from her did she begin to see just how much she had changed. And Maj is correct in saying there is no evidence suggesting she might be.

 

Sheriam - Also probably not a darkfriend, though i dont doubt RJ intended her to be a red herring. The realities are that her actions and the method of her beatings simply dont fit, and her thought that she wished she had never approached a sitter in her life--and the implication that that is what led to her being in this position--does not fit with her being black. If her beater were shadow, the thought and the method would be different, and if her beater weren't shadow, then Sheriam would likely just kill her. Thats not to say her beater isn't Black--indeed, i think it very likely that Lelaine is of the Black Ajah--just that Sheriam probably isn't.

 

 

[druidravi]

Leane I think is a dark friend . She is one of the only few important characters we don't have a first person POV  .

 

The black Ajah wouldn't have left Siaun alone . Considering their power ( They were responsible for Siuan's stilling and made Alviarion the new keeper) I don't think they would have left Siuan alone .

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

The black Ajah wouldn't have left Siaun alone . Considering their power ( They were responsible for Siuan's stilling and made Alviarion the new keeper) I don't think they would have left Siuan alone .

 

They did not leave Siuan alone she was under guard when Min rescued her. Do you think the Black Ajah would of stilled one of their members (or sanctioned the act by others) just to keep an eye on a stilled Siuan who was under guard and who they could have easily have killed if yhry wanted to?

[RobertAlexWillis]

I've recently come across a connection that I think makes it more likely that Sheriam is, if not a Darkfriend herself, at least being used by the Shadow.

 

Halima killed two of Egwene's three maids.  The only one to survive is Chesa, who was given to Egwene by Sheriam.  Sheriam's chastisment in TPoD ch 16 comes before Halima had managed to place herself too close to Egwene, but immediately after Romanda and Lelaine both found out about Egwene's planned meeting on the lake with the Andoran and Murandian nobles.  If it was Lelaine, why would she beat Sheriam for not keeping her informed about something she knew about?  And why would Halima choose that moment (it is in the same chapter) to eliminate Meri and Selame (who "ran off" at the same time)?

 

Delana was probably beating Sheriam for information at Halima's order.  Now ... assuming this connection is valid, the method that Delana chooses indicates that Sheriam is not Black Ajah, but it simply being used by Delana.  If Sheriam were Black, Halima could just go to her directly, and wouldn't have to beat her.

 

As something of a corroborating connection (weak by itself, but stronger in this context) both Sheriam and Delana arrive late to the sitting called in CoT ch 19.  Sheriam specifically arrives late and upset (for no apparent reason), and Delana is the last to arrive "out of breath".  Almost as if Sheriam had been being "interviewed" by Delana, then came to the Sitting, and Delana had to run report to Halima, before running to the Sitting herself.

 

As to what she would have been "interviewing" Sheriam about, this was the Sitting in which the Aes Sedai proposed an alliance with the Black Tower ... which proposal caused Sheriam to weep openly.  I imagine that such an alliance would not sit well with the Shadow ... since it strengthens Rand's hold on the Black Tower (since the Salidar Aes Sedai have stronger connections with Rand).

[druidravi]

Quote:

 

 

They did not leave Siuan alone she was under guard when Min rescued her. Do you think the Black Ajah would of stilled one of their members (or sanctioned the act by others) just to keep an eye on a stilled Siuan who was under guard and who they could have easily have killed if yhry wanted to?

 

I didn't mean after her stilling but before when she was the Amrylin . I actually think Leane's stilling was part of a punishment from  BA for not uncovering Siaun's plan with Morraine .

[DemandredFO]

I'm 99.9% sure Leane is not a DF.  Leane would have had plenty of oppurtunity to kill Egwene, being one of her trusted advisors, and most of the points you raised in that list post, please read the book to find most of the answers.  Furthermore, if Leane were black, Mesaana wouldn't let Suiane be deposed.

[Chel Vanin]

I personally don't think Leane is a black, mostly because none of her actions (that i know of) have even hinted at a darker purpose. Maybe its supposed to be a huge surprise but even with Ingtar, if you re-read TGH you can catch hints of him being a darkfriend. Also, as demandredFO said, deposing an amyrlin with a black sister as her keeper, to replace with an amyrlin with a different black sister as keeper seems redundant and unnecesary, other than Elaida being an easier amyrlin to control.

 

Verin seems pretty much ruled out as a DF but she is, to say the least, one of the more intriguing characters in the series.

 

Sheriam, I personally believe, is simply being used by the shadow not a DF herself, however, I could be terribly wrong. I always assumed Delana was the one beating her (as RAW's theory suggests) not Lelaine, but I suppose Lelaine could be black as well.

 

As for Theodrin and Faolain, I think Faolain isn't a DF because of Min's viewing saying she'd have a happy future, which would be doubtful if she's a DF and the Dark One loses TG.I seem to remember Theodrin being characterized as being "apple-cheeked" not sure what that has to do with anything but some earlier posts were speculating about someone who was "apple-cheeked" as well, or some such. Could mean her.

[druidravi]

I'm 99.9% sure Leane is not a DF.  Leane would have had plenty of oppurtunity to kill Egwene, being one of her trusted advisors, and most of the points you raised in that list post, please read the book to find most of the answers.  Furthermore, if Leane were black, Mesaana wouldn't let Suiane be deposed.

 

Why would the black Ajah kill Egwene? .  The division of tower into two is their master piece . If they kill Egwene the division would be lost . Except for the readers almost none of the characters know Egwene is going to become one of the strongest Amrylins ever  .

 

There is no clear-cut proof she is a dark friend , it is more of a hunch .We can predict at least 1 surprise DF before the series ends and I am guessing its Leane.