Is one of these women a Darkfriend - The evidence keeps piling up

[aevogt]

Actually, while we don't know exactly what the black oaths are, (though I haev my own suspicions) we do know that they do NOT include an oath against lying since we see black sister lie.

 

We also know they use the oath rod in the Tower to remove the Three Oaths Galina recognizes the new oath rod Sevanna has as not the one in the Tower so the one in the Tower must be the only one she knew about.  We also know it to be physically impossible for a sister bound by the oath

 

The black sisters replace them with a new "Trinity" of three oaths to maintain the ageless look and avoid suspicion.

 

Probably something like this

 

To serve the DO and Chosen faithfully  

Not betray the black sisters.

Not divulge black ajah business.

 

We get a fairly good idea about the last two based on the questioning of Ispan by Vandene and Adelas.  She only spoke of sisters dead and deeds done, not anyone currently black or what they are doing now.  Though it's possible she doesn't know any Black sister that aren't already discovered.  Of course, the Baalzamon, whio formed the BA, would demand an oath of obedience (kind of like a Frat initiation)since he thought he was the great lord as it was.  

 

As for the aliases, telling someone "You may call me Mistress Alys" as Moraine does is not anything close to the same thing as saying "My name is Mistress Alys" 

 

Sorry Maj you beat to that last

[wvlr]

Pay attention to what Moiraine says whenever she uses an alias, "You can call me...". She never says "My name is...". This is not a lie by any means.

 

Majsju is absolutely correct - They (the AS) Always say "You can call me...".  or some similar variation when they do not use their real names.    And when they are with other AS & they do it, the other AS looks at them questioningly - wondering what the reason is.

 

 

 

 

Galina recognizes the new oath rod Sevanna has as not the one in the Tower so the one in the Tower must be the only one she knew about.  We also know it to be physically impossible for a sister bound by the oath.

 

We also know from the Galina POVs that she knows that the OR can be used to remove Oaths.  She is just not sure if OR 3 can be used to remove OR 111's oaths.    So it is now obvious that the Black Adja has been using OR 3 to remove the original Oaths and install new ones.

[Guest cw]

Breaking the Oaths also doesn't necessarily come after the choice to be a Darkfriend.  Liandrin said her vows to the Dark before she went to the Tower.  She then got released from the Three Oaths when she joined the Black Ajah.

[xander]

That's my point CW.  Some were DF's before they took the three oaths and some decided to become DF's while they were bound by the three oaths.  Just because someone is bound by the three oaths it doesn't mean they cant do as they please. 

Suian or anyone bound by the three oaths could be a DF and function perfectly well as long as the oaths weren't violated directly.  You do not have too lie to do the work of the dark.

 

Again, only my suspicion

[Guest cw]

I understood you to be saying something different.

 

Siuan has had enough PoVs by now that we can be quite certain of her hatred of the Black Ajah and all things Dark One.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

I still have a strong suspicion that one of the main non-POV characters is a DF.

UNQUOTE

 

Thom Merrilin, and Davram Bashere. I have a hunch that one, if not both, is a Darkfriend. Most likely Bashere, but theres something about Thom that bugs me. Have we even had a Thom Merrilin PoV?

 

[algspkr]

QUOTE

I still have a strong suspicion that one of the main non-POV characters is a DF.

UNQUOTE

 

Thom Merrilin, and Davram Bashere. I have a hunch that one, if not both, is a Darkfriend. Most likely Bashere, but theres something about Thom that bugs me. Have we even had a Thom Merrilin PoV?

 

I think it was TSR when Moiraine asked him to go to Tarabon with the girls.

[Nerevar]

If Leane was a DF I would cry, a lot. She is my favourite secondary character, it would be out of character for her to be willingly in the BA, plus I think we would have more solid hints throughout the books.

 

Basically I'm saying no way to all the suspects because of lack of evidence. :)

[Guest Dreadlord]

Davram Bashere seems like a likely candidate, something about him strikes me as odd. Mins viewing of him showed something shadowy/dark? or am I getting mixed up with something else?

[Guest cw]

She had a viewing that showed a dark something around him.  Not really indicative of anything but trouble.

 

Per Min, Bashere is one of three people who's turning on Rand would be very bad.  The other two being Logain and Dobraine.  Nothing she saw says they would, just that 1 or all of them doing so would be bad.  Years to recover from is how I think she put it.  And as Rand likely doesn't have years...

[trakand_01]

I havent had time to read the entire thread here, however I've just read what I think is the first reference to Sheriam's manipulation (her being beaten etc) and I wanted to see what people made of it.

 

It is in PoD, in the Chapter where Egwene has been found out in hers and Gareth Bryne's plan to meet with the nobles. Egwene has had confrontations with Lelaine and Romanda, and it is nighttime. Sheriam is walking back to her tent. She gets there, (I dont have the books to type out the passage, sorry) and goes inside. It says that she only had time to realise that she was not alone before she was thrown face down on the bed, and her dress and shift were stripped from her body (with the power). Someone says to her something along the lines of 'you were supposed to tell me everything, that girl is up to something, i will find out what'.

 

Sheriam thinks to herself afterwards that she wished she'd never spoken to anyone in the Hall. It doesnt say what she wished she'd never spoken to them about, or if she means just, in general.

 

Now, I have a theory. I think it is Halima / Aran'gar. I have reasons - please read before flaming me!

 

Earlier in the chapter (or it might be the one before, I can't remember) Halima is in the forest, just about to make her way back to camp, she has just buried a corpse. She remarks that she could stand amongst them and kill all of them (the AS) and they would never know who was killing them (because she uses Saidin, not Saidar).

 

Later, we learn that one of Egwene's maids has gone missing.

 

Then Sheriam is attacked, and someone says they want to find out what Egwene is up to.

 

Sheriam doesnt sense a woman who can channel in her tent, and only realises someone is there when it is too late.

 

What this suggests to me is that Halima is trying to find things out about Egwene (obvious, I know) and perhaps the maid either found out about Halima, or was proving useless, so she disposed of her, planning to replace her with a new spy.

 

It also suggests that whoever attacked Sheriam isnt a channelling woman (she didnt know anyone was inside the tent).

 

I wonder if Sheriam spoke (in all sincerety and innocence) to Delana ('someone in the hall') about her concerns over what Egwene was up to, and Delana obviously told Halima... Halima obviously has some orders not to kill them (perhaps any of them) because when she said that she could kill them all, she followed it up with the thought that she wouldnt outlive them long, and the DO only gave very special people 2nd chances, she wasnt about to ruin hers.

 

This wouldnt make Sheriam a DF, but to be honest if Aran'gar came to me and announced themselves, I have to say I would very likely do whatever they said out of pure terror!

 

Does this hold any water?

 

With reference to the Gray (Wo)man in Sheriam's bed in the WT, I think this is RJ playing games with us. I think he wanted us to put two and two together, to come up with 5. Why didnt Sheriam report it? Maybe she suspects that AS in the tower are Black Ajah. Maybe they are AS who stand above her in the heirarchy. Maybe she was suspicious that the people she would report it TO were BA... with a society as entangled in politics as the White Tower I think there are many many reasons she would not report it. Personally I think that she was suspicious (and terrified of) Black Ajah sisters, and, not knowing WHO might be BA, she felt it best to keep it to herself - a little like bullying in the playground, the victim thinks 'keep quiet, dont tell, it'll all go away, if i tell it'll only get worse'.

[aussie_ashaman123]

it cannot be Sheriam, later on we find her being beaten by Aran'gar to get information out of her. Leane, i never suspected her, though i think Alviarin would've warned her to make herself scarse for a while. More likely scenerio, Liandrin and her crew took off when word came of egwene and company returning, so there was a lot of time to organise things. and i think slayer killed the grey man for failure, and as a message to the tower