Lord Luc/Slayer

[Tigara]

OK, so I'm re-reading Book 4, and I'm near the end. What exactly is the significance of Lord Luc? Is he a Darkfriend, or something else, or what? I can't figure it out.

[BrainFireBob]

Re-reading, you say?

 

He's a special lieutenant of the Shadow- some sort of amalgamation of Luc Mantear, brother of Tigraine, and Isam Mandragoran, cousin to Lan.

[Mr Ares]

Slayer is more than just a Darkfriend. He is an assassin for the Shadow, composed of Rand's uncle and Lan's cousin, as BFB said. His services are begged, except by the Chosen and Shai'tan (BBHN). He is capable of entering T'A'R in the flesh, an ability that no other non-channeler has displayed. He is in the TR to kill Fain. What else do you want to know?

[Gentled Ben]

He is capable of entering T'A'R in the flesh, an ability that no other non-channeler has displayed.

Hasn't Perrin done it?

[avacraft]

No Perrin hasn't gone in the flesh, just in his dreams. The Wolves' "Wolf Dream" is Tel'Arna'Rhiod.  He can go there very strongly in spirit but he has never gone there in the flesh.

[Tigara]

That explains stuff. Why Fain?

[Blackrose]

Urm isnt he hunting Nyn and lan? if hes hunting fain he might be doing it cause the DO seees him as a threat and wants him out of the way.

[Tyrell]

He's hunting Fain at the Two Rivers 'cause Fain is a great big traitor to the Dark One.

[Tigara]

I see.....

[BrainFireBob]

He's hunting Fain primarily, because Fain is a traitor, and more importantly a traitor that has shown the ability to suborne Shadowspawn.

 

He is *not* hunting Lan and Nynaeve, although he was "ordered" to make an attempt on Rand and Min while they were in Far Madding- Rand is his nephew, not Lan.

[CUBAREY]

He is also hunting Mat.

[RobertAlexWillis]

He is also hunting Mat.

 

Um ... where is that?

[CUBAREY]

 

upps, my bad, I was thinking of the blood sucking Gollum(sp).

[Kura]

No Perrin hasn't gone in the flesh, just in his dreams. The Wolves' "Wolf Dream" is Tel'Arna'Rhiod.  He can go there very strongly in spirit but he has never gone there in the flesh.

 

O.o I thought he did when Faile with the whole Hedgehog thing. Hopper said that to much of him was there, and that it was dangerous so they had to be fast.

[elmis]

I think that was more of a coma like sleep, due to the trap the dark sisters had placed on the room. As he can't remove his whole body, to enter T'A'R like a channeler, a deep sleep like that would be as close to being in there in the flesh as he's ever going to be, unless someone makes a gateway for him.

 

The whole story there was kinda strange though, as with many of the earlier book happenings. Could be that the trap was set to draw the consciousness of trapped fully into T'A'R, or any number of things. Strange that they had that knowledge, when they know so little else of T'A'R.

 

And I don't think it was Be'lal either, as I seem to remember Moiraine saying something about Saidar with regards to the trap. Don't have the book handy to check it out for sure at the moment, though.

[Graendals favourite]

No, before Moiraine killed Be'lal, he said he thought she was neatly out of the way, but no matter she was a biteme, so Be'lal did order the thing done or at least knew of it. I think Moiraine was just in awe of the Forsaken, not knowing whether Be'lal might be able to sense channelling saidar. She did think it of Sammael too, hoping he had not noticed her use of balefire.

 

It appears a dreamer can go too deeply into Tel'aran'rhiod, if they do not know what they are doing; one of the Wise Ones taught Egwene on the first day that she'll be able to control it and going too far is dangerous. Their body will still be in this world, however.

[elmis]

From encyclopaedia-wot's chapter summary:

 

They find Faile lying motionless on the floor with a carved wooden hedgehog by her hand. Moiraine barely stops him from entering. She says it was a trap and she felt a flash of pure Spirit when it triggered. She sends Lan to find the innkeeper. The innkeeper says two women left Moiraine a "surprise." Moiraine concludes that Be'lal knows she is in Tear and had two of the Black Ajah set that trap for her. If Be'lal felt the trigger, then he will not expect them tonight.

 

The order came from Be'lal, but he didn't make the weave, unless he linked with them in order to make it - which doesn't seem to likely to me. Perrin might enter T'A'R 'at will', but Faile had to be dragged in, unless she's a latent dreamer. :P

 

It still seems a bit odd to me that they'd know how to drag someone into T'A'R against their will, but not know anything else about it. Unless Be'lal had some of the female Forsaken either make the trap, or teach the DA sisters how to make it. It continues for me, to be one of those somewhat strange passages from the earlier WoT books.. though for all I know it could all be explained by one of those strange ter'angreal that nobody knows the workings of that they stole from the Tower.

[Graendals favourite]

It could have been that Be'lal just instructed how to use the hedgehog, and had the sisters trap Moiraine with it. It was known to the Black sisters that the hedgehog could be used to induce sleep, but if Be'lal knew other ways in which it could be used, he could have told them. After all, experimenting with ter'angreal is dangerous, but when told, channel Spirit there with Air and Earth is such a way, and you can use it as a trap. Or a more general instruction, and the sisters could probably have figured out the saidar part of it. Or Lanfear could have instructed them, since she was involved in making the trap too. (edit I mean the trap to the wondergirls. Perhaps instructions when they stole the things.)

[Duneflayer]

another option is that Be'lal could sence it because the hedgehog used The male half of the true source, remember not all Terangreal need to be touch with the one power to be activated

[ignavus1223]

From encyclopaedia-wot's chapter summary:

 

They find Faile lying motionless on the floor with a carved wooden hedgehog by her hand. Moiraine barely stops him from entering. She says it was a trap and she felt a flash of pure Spirit when it triggered. She sends Lan to find the innkeeper. The innkeeper says two women left Moiraine a "surprise." Moiraine concludes that Be'lal knows she is in Tear and had two of the Black Ajah set that trap for her. If Be'lal felt the trigger, then he will not expect them tonight.

 

The order came from Be'lal, but he didn't make the weave, unless he linked with them in order to make it - which doesn't seem to likely to me. Perrin might enter T'A'R 'at will', but Faile had to be dragged in, unless she's a latent dreamer. :P

 

It still seems a bit odd to me that they'd know how to drag someone into T'A'R against their will, but not know anything else about it. Unless Be'lal had some of the female Forsaken either make the trap, or teach the DA sisters how to make it. It continues for me, to be one of those somewhat strange passages from the earlier WoT books.. though for all I know it could all be explained by one of those strange ter'angreal that nobody knows the workings of that they stole from the Tower.

 

The BA was instructed on how to set the trap using the hedgehog ter'angreal, but that doesn't necessarily give or require any understanding of T'A'R.  It also doesn't mean they would know anything about dragging someone into T'A'R against their will.  They just knew how to make the hedgehog work as a trap.  You can know how to pull the pin on a grenade without understanding how to make gunpowder.   

[elmis]

I realize that now, at the time of the my post I didn't remember the hedgehog. Hopefully I saved some shame with my last line in the post! ;)