Olver?

[Kingsky]

Hey everybody i have been reading the books for a long time now but this is my first time on the forums. Anyways getting to the point. I dont know if anyone has thought about this but i will put it up anyways cause i just thought about and it makes sense to me. But I think that the boy olver in the story is actually Gaidal Cain reborn.

[Papermache]

RJ has already stated that he isn't.

 

Explanation: An hour in Tel'aran'rhiod can be a minute or a day in the waking world, but it can never go backwards. Meaning that as Birgitte was spun out while Gaidal was still attached to the wheel, for him to have been spun out at that same time, he would still only be less than a year old.

[Majsju]

Might be worth pointing out that when RJ debunked Olver=Cain, he did throw in that Olver has his own reason for being there, ie he was just not thrown in to be a red herring. And anyone who has read KOD should have a good hint about what that reason might be...

[Magicana]

Speaking of Olver, where has he gone. I'm about to re-read KOD again (Can't remember which time it is now) and I don't know where he went off to in the menagerie.

[Luckers]

Yeah, it's in KoD.

[signdragon]

in winters heart min has a veiwing about birgette being connected to a man sometimes older, sometimes younger.  Am i the only one to read this? if rj said he wasnt who can say the Creator was as an Aes Sedai with his words.

[RobertAlexWillis]

in winters heart min has a veiwing about birgette being connected to a man sometimes older, sometimes younger.  Am i the only one to read this?

 

No.  The man Min saw is Gaidal Cain, who is indeed younger than Birgitte in this particular spinning (having been spun out in the normal fashion while Birgitte was ripped out as an adult.  Gaidal is usually older, hence, when Min sees their adventure in future lives, she sees Cain as the older man, but in viewings of adventures in this life, Cain is younger.

 

But, Gaidal Cain is, at the end of KoD, an infant, not an 8 to 10 year old boy.  Olver was alive long before Gaidal Cain was spun out of T'A'R.  Olver is not Gaidal.

[signdragon]

"sometimes older sometimes younger" meaning more than once.  He could be one of the boys on the boat to salidar, or he could be olver, i don't know.  But it was an interesting tidbit that i missed before and wondered what others thought

[Andrew the Great]

"sometimes older sometimes younger" meaning more than once.  He could be one of the boys on the boat to salidar, or he could be olver, i don't know.  But it was an interesting tidbit that i missed before and wondered what others thought

Ummmm. No. It could mean more than once, but that's not important. Gaidal Cain is currently and infant. I can't see any way for us to have met him after being spun out. I don't know. Anyone got any crazy theories on who he is?

 

[Kadere]

I got one! He's a baby somewhere in the Boarderlands.  ;D

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

Gaidal should have been spun out as Elayne and Rand's kid, just to add to the already messed-up state of relationships...

[Angel of Death]

Depends, does the baby get the soul upon conception or birth?

[Egerog]

Crazy theory

This is just something possible. 

the books said Cain was missing from the dream world.  It does not say he was born but implied it. 

Perhaps Cane left the dream in a way similar to the way Bergita was ripped out of the dream world. 

[Luckers]

No, Cain was protected by the precepts and not open to that form of attack. He was reborn.

[The Dragon Reborn]

Something just occurred to me about Gaidal Cain. The pattern is spinning the wheel in preparation for the Last Battle...hence the creation of ta'veran and all that good stuff. The Heroes of the Horn are also integral to the success of The Light in the last battle, so why would the Pattern spin out one of it's Heroes when he'll now surely be useless for the last battle?

[elmis]

There is always use for a hero, even after the last battle. I don't think the world will be all perfect and sweet, once the main issues are dealt with. 

 

The way I've always viewed it is that the heroes aren't directly linked to the Light, but in their own way they're trying to fight the "good fight". Remember Hawkwing, who got corrupted by Ishamael and thus started killing Aes Sedai. When they're spun out, they're just human, with human flaws and what have you. The only thing that is certain is that their deeds will go  down in history books, songs, stories and so forth, making them people out of legend, and as such heroes of the horn. :)

 

 

 

[The Dragon Reborn]

True, there is always use for a Hero, but I'm more questioning why spin out one of the Heroes before the Last Battle. True the Heroes will obey anybody that is ties to the Horn, but if I remember the Heroes/Horn are an essential requirement for The Light if they want to win. I think the Horn has always been tied to The Light's success at The Last Battle. Being a Hero down coming into The Last Battle probably ain't a good idea (two if you wanna count Birgitte...)

[Tyrell]

Not realy, when they are summoned via the horn they are all invincible, so a couple wouldn't make that much of a difference. And as I recall from TGH (I may be wrong) their success in fighting seemed directy related to Rand's own success in fighting so their actual numbers didn't really come into it.

[elmis]

What Tyrell said, plus it's already been essential for the Light - saved the trio, well, duo once already. :)

[DemandredFO]

I think the answer to why spin Cain out now is the line in Nicola's foretelling, "The great battle done, but the world not yet done with battle".  The other part is what Tyrell said.  Rand will most likely be dead or on a longterm vacation, Mat will be a great general too, Bryne may be alive but he is tied to the white tower, Ituralde may be alive but he will probably be busy with Arad Doman.  The point is a hero will be very useful and besides all the shadowspawn may not have been destroyed in Tarmon Gai'don

[CrazyMike]

Maybe Oliver is servant of the Darkone biding his time to do the DO's biding,,, or maybe even one of the Chosen or a Dread Lord,,, there are not any Asha'man in Mats Army only Aes Sedai so no one could detect him,,, and a Chosen or a Dred Lord could have been implanted in the body of a young boy the same way that Lanfer was put in the body of a Young Blond Woman...  ::)

[Wayhey]

Something just occurred to me about Gaidal Cain. The pattern is spinning the wheel in preparation for the Last Battle...hence the creation of ta'veran and all that good stuff. The Heroes of the Horn are also integral to the success of The Light in the last battle, so why would the Pattern spin out one of it's Heroes when he'll now surely be useless for the last battle?

 

Maybe GC was spun out to be in the book, Mat and Tuon: 10 Years Later...

[CrazyMike]

as to HAWKWINGS, being corupted by Ishmale ;;; corrupted does not mean he was turned to the Darkside Luke,,, it means that in his Tainted Saiden Twisted madness he was deceived and manipulated by Ishmale,,, he was still a devoted servant of the light... ;D

[Luckers]

Hawkwing couldn't channel, Crazy Mike, and did not suffer from the taint. Ishamael manipulated him, and played on the well founded distrust Bonwhin had created within him against the Aes Sedai--and likely used a little compulsion besides.

[RobertAlexWillis]

*chuckling*

 

What a waste of a perfectly rational explanation.

 

Ya gotta do it like so, Luckers m'boy:

 

Ishmale was CRAZIE, NUTS, INSANO but the GRATE HAWKWIG was a super-ta'vern, so Ishy just got him drunk and sed HAY YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE OCEANS and hawkwig was like YEAH ILL SEND MY KIDS but he was still good becuz the TAINT CAN't touch him man.