Which organization of channelers is the most arrogant/willfull/stubborn?

[Achmed]

If every group of channelers got together who would end up dominant if the there was no martial combat, only combat by wills?

 

No channeling, no weapons, no slapping  ;D etc...

 

Considering previous examples and taking into account Aiel culture, I tend to favor the Aiel although my vote might, just might shift to Rand because he's crazy AND part Aiel.

 

Your thoughts?

 

(Please consider previous examples... like Cadsuane vs. Sorilea, Egwene as a Damane, and Moghedien as a prisoner.)

[Vambram]

Rand all the way.

[Zardi]

To be picky, Rand is a man, not an organization :P

 

I went with the Windfinders. Perhaps I'm biased, but I can't stand them.

[Charlz Guybon]

I voted for the Windfinders on the strength of their arrogance.

[Gympok]

Rand isnt arrogant, willful, stubborn or any of those.  He is crazy lol.  Thats the way i see it.  I had to choose the asha'men.  They are atleast as arrogant as the aes sedai and have been around for like 1 year.  Not thousands.  Thats a pretty short time to become that arrogant. 

[RobertAlexWillis]

After much deliberation, I went with the bloody, flaming Aes Sedai.

 

I chose them because I think there is the largest discrepancy between what they claim, and what they can deliver.  They've postured for millenia about being the keepers of the secrets of the Age of Legends (even keeping the name), their Amyrlin supposedly the "Guardian of the Seals" (which were only lost 2000 years ago).  They twist truth into knots while hiding behind the Oaths, meddle in the nations while pretending to be neutral "Servants of All".  They claim to champion the Light, but harbor the oldest group of Dreadlords still around in the Black Ajah.  And in the moment when they were needed most, they split apart like a rotten melon.

 

In short, since I associate arrogance/wilfulness/stubbornness with a hypocritical cover for weakness, I put them there.

 

If we are talking about strength of will, or purposeful confidence, I would have to with the Aiel Wise Ones.  The only salvation the Aes Sedai are going to get is from an Accepted who got trained by the Wise Ones.  Amys, Bair, and Sorilea turned Egwene from a stubborn girl into a woman with an iron will, and Knife of Dreams let her shine.

[The Dragon Reborn]

After much deliberation, I went with the bloody, flaming Aes Sedai.

 

I chose them because I think there is the largest discrepancy between what they claim, and what they can deliver.  They've postured for millenia about being the keepers of the secrets of the Age of Legends (even keeping the name), their Amyrlin supposedly the "Guardian of the Seals" (which were only lost 2000 years ago).  They twist truth into knots while hiding behind the Oaths, meddle in the nations while pretending to be neutral "Servants of All".  They claim to champion the Light, but harbor the oldest group of Dreadlords still around in the Black Ajah.  And in the moment when they were needed most, they split apart like a rotten melon.

 

In short, since I associate arrogance/wilfulness/stubbornness with a hypocritical cover for weakness, I put them there.

 

If we are talking about strength of will, or purposeful confidence, I would have to with the Aiel Wise Ones.  The only salvation the Aes Sedai are going to get is from an Accepted who got trained by the Wise Ones.  Amys, Bair, and Sorilea turned Egwene from a stubborn girl into a woman with an iron will, and Knife of Dreams let her shine.

That sums up my opinion quite nicely...so I won't bother with my own rant.

[Feral]

The Windfinders. They're some of the most annoying people in the book and I really want to see the Aes Sedai put them in their place.

[Darkness Incarnated]

I will go with the [stuck-up] Aes Sedai, RAW took the words from the tip of my tongue. They are simply too full of themselves, with the exception of a very few (nah, I'm not gonna tell who).

 

I associate willfullness and stubborness, and differentiate them from arrogance; the latter has a rather negative connotation. The Aes Sedai take the crown for arrogance, though the Asha'man seem to be giving them some stiff competition. But the Aes Sedai have had 3000 years to perfect the art, there is no disputing their hold on that title.

 

As for being willfull, it's a toss between Rand and the Wise Ones, I would not want to be under Sorilea's or Rand's spotlight.

 

I know channeling is not allowed, but never forget that Rand has that s'angreal (sp); some screws are loose in his brain's mechanism, and he is the bloody Dragon Reborn, so he would wipe them all out if for some reason (or for no reason) he decides to change the rules.  :)

[dlan4327]

Okay I know this is gonna sound like I've got an axe to grind but in term's of sheer arrogance I simply hate so many Aes Sedai. There is literally a handful I can stand. Then along came the wind finder's. If they were real and I ever got my hands on one of them...

[Hagazussa]

Well it depend on what you mean by arrogant. Do you mean someone that are sure of them self and act on this or someone that do allot of stupid things just becouse they assume they are right.

 

The Aes Sedai at least in the beginning of the books are a menace to every channeler not of their number. The male channelers they drag in and do something indescribably horrible to, where it would have been much more humane to just kill them. But they drag them to the Tower and gentle them due to tradition, a belief that their way is the right way. Female channelers that are not Aes Sedai they expect to more or less hide their ability. If these women women use their channeling ability to anything else than healing headaches or amusing their children whit flying toys the Aes Sedai will come swarming down and punish them, and if such women would dare to from a group the Aes Sedai will make examples of them. Basically if WoT was in our time the Aes Sedai would declare, we have the copyright on the use of the One Power, every one that use it better pay us tribute or you will get the RIAA on your asses. And if that is not arrogant. I do not know what is.

[Mistress alDebaw]

Agree, RAW articulated my thoughts in a way I couldn't, brilliant mind that he has.  ;D

I'm no fan of Aes Sedai.  :)

 

After much deliberation, I went with the bloody, flaming Aes Sedai.

 

I chose them because I think there is the largest discrepancy between what they claim, and what they can deliver.  They've postured for millenia about being the keepers of the secrets of the Age of Legends (even keeping the name), their Amyrlin supposedly the "Guardian of the Seals" (which were only lost 2000 years ago).  They twist truth into knots while hiding behind the Oaths, meddle in the nations while pretending to be neutral "Servants of All".  They claim to champion the Light, but harbor the oldest group of Dreadlords still around in the Black Ajah.  And in the moment when they were needed most, they split apart like a rotten melon.

 

In short, since I associate arrogance/wilfulness/stubbornness with a hypocritical cover for weakness, I put them there.

 

If we are talking about strength of will, or purposeful confidence, I would have to with the Aiel Wise Ones.  The only salvation the Aes Sedai are going to get is from an Accepted who got trained by the Wise Ones.  Amys, Bair, and Sorilea turned Egwene from a stubborn girl into a woman with an iron will, and Knife of Dreams let her shine.

That sums up my opinion quite nicely...so I won't bother with my own rant.

[Achmed]

Thanks everyone,

 

I see that I should have worded the poll more carefully.  For arrogant/willfull it seems that the Aes Sedai and the Windfinders are really hated while for pure stubborness and force of will the Wise Ones are well trained.

 

Consensus?

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

That sums it up nicely for me. Nothing fazes the Wise Ones, they're downright stubborn in a good way. The Aes Sedai for arrogance, and the Windfinders...we all know we want to throttle them.

[Luckers]

After much deliberation, I went with the bloody, flaming Aes Sedai.

 

I chose them because I think there is the largest discrepancy between what they claim, and what they can deliver.  They've postured for millenia about being the keepers of the secrets of the Age of Legends (even keeping the name), their Amyrlin supposedly the "Guardian of the Seals" (which were only lost 2000 years ago).  They twist truth into knots while hiding behind the Oaths, meddle in the nations while pretending to be neutral "Servants of All".  They claim to champion the Light, but harbor the oldest group of Dreadlords still around in the Black Ajah.  And in the moment when they were needed most, they split apart like a rotten melon.

 

In short, since I associate arrogance/wilfulness/stubbornness with a hypocritical cover for weakness, I put them there.

 

If we are talking about strength of will, or purposeful confidence, I would have to with the Aiel Wise Ones.  The only salvation the Aes Sedai are going to get is from an Accepted who got trained by the Wise Ones.  Amys, Bair, and Sorilea turned Egwene from a stubborn girl into a woman with an iron will, and Knife of Dreams let her shine.

 

Myself, I concider the Windfinder's worse; though it is merely a matter of degrees. The deciding factor is that however misguided and irritating, the Aes Sedai generally want to do the right thing; they want to benefit the world, and so forth--they just think they know the best way to do it, and go after it.

 

The Sea Folk on the other hand are entirely after self-interest. At best they will act to further their own career. As a whole i find them more didlikeable then the Aes Sedai, and beyond that, more arrogant and selfish.

[Cadsuane]

But I think the Windfinders are only after their own interests because they simply don't have the political power to be as obnoxious as the Aes Sedai. The AS have huge reach, and therefore as a group, they rank highest. If you took equal-sized samples of WF and AS, more often the WF would be more obnoxious, but in the larger scale, the AS are much, much worse.

[Luckers]

Yeah... well... shut up!

 

:)

 

Of course that might be changing under Egwene's influence. Concider the meeting with Narishma... still with the arrogance, but its being worn thin by the not infrequent shamings Aes Sedai are suffering.

 

The windfinders simply havn't been exposed to enough shame for their arrogance to have been displaced. Note: Shalon.

[lou]

i agree with luckers on this, the windfinders are just an outright hateful bunch in general. the windfinders,as a whole,are extremely selfserving. for example: the Bargain with rand....to even think to make demands on a man who will most likely have to give his life for every living person in randland (and beyond). the sea folk will not give the woman who can channel a shot at being AS, not for fear of having the people linked to the tower, but because it would deplete the sea folk's own supply of such women.add in the pleasure the windfinders seem to take in the "lessons" with the AS, i find thier character sadly lacking in general.

[Orange Fescue]

I went with the damane/suldams because they're so completely brainwashed. The scenes with damane licking their suldam's hand after being praised makes me slightly queasy. To reduce a human being to that is obscene. Captured sul'dams are absolutely convinced they can't see the flows. Some of the damane begin channelling randomly if their collar is removed because they can't conceive of themselves and a dangerous, horrible monster who can't not be destructive and evil without the a'dam. Anyway, I answered the poll based on the headline and the understanding it was bout who was the least malleable and open to new information and so forth.

 

Having since read more detailed explanations of what was being asked--ie put them all in a room and see who dominates the others--I'm going to go with the Wise Ones. The ter'angreal they go through to become Wise Ones gives them an advantage in making good decisions and the Three-fold Land has made them strong. The Windfinders are not used to dealing openly with other channelers. The Aes Sedai are a paper tiger and have been for centuries. Now that they're faced with several rival factions that are at least as powerful as they are, they're going to adapt or curl up in a corner reciting nursery rhymes. Among other things, they don't know how do handle a situation where someone says "no" to them and has the Power to make it stick. The ashaman are about to enter a nasty civil war.

[Charlz Guybon]

Thanks everyone,

 

I see that I should have worded the poll more carefully.  For arrogant/willfull it seems that the Aes Sedai and the Windfinders are really hated while for pure stubborness and force of will the Wise Ones are well trained.

 

Consensus?

 

Yeah, you put too many adjectives, which while on the surface seem similar, were actually quite different, and that skewed the poll results.

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

still, plenty of good insights came out of the thread :)