What's up with the hate on Nynaeve?

[CrescentoTWNR]

I finished book five a day ago and went to see what other people were thinking about it online, and I've seen a lot of people voice their dislike of Nynaeve in this book. I don't know if I'm missing something because I really enjoyed Nynaeve's arc in the Fires of Heaven, and even at her worst I can't really see her as "bratty" or anything like people describe her to be.

[Starla Yilmaz]

People hate Nyneave? Let me at those wool brained lummoxes.

[Sabio]

Because early on she is simply a bully, throwing tantrums, talking down to others, and using threats to get her way.  Later she is much more likeable as she grows, but early in the series she is simply someone who tries to bully her way through things.

Edited December 28, 2025 by Sabio

[CrescentoTWNR]

Just now, Sabio said:

Because early on she is simply a bully, throwing tantrums, talking down to others, and using threats to get her way.  Later she is much more likeable as she grows, but early in the series she is simply someone who tries to bully her way through things.

I'll admit she has a problem with coming to terms with the fact that the rest of the cast from the Two Rivers are their own people and she can't drag them all back home like she set out to do. But a lot of her anger seems to stem from the fact that her and the lives of those she cares about were all irreversibly wrapped up in the world's problems, and she can't even lay the blame at Moiraine's feet like she thought to at first because she knows that they are what they are no matter what.

I think she's actually a really good parallel to Rand, considering how much they both dig their heels at their respective duties. Even in book five, you have Nynaeve subjugating a Forsaken and keeping it on the down low much like Rand did with Asmodean.

[Sabio]

Early in Two Rivers she shows no respect to the village council and I think and even hits Cein Blue with a stick.  She was the show me respect as Wisdom but never felt she had to show others.  I ended up liking her but early on she was a bully.

[Jaysee]

Let me preface this by saying I haven't made it through all the books yet. I don't hate her, but the braid tugging got out of control in The Dragon Reborn. By the time you get to the end of the book she has gripped, pulled, tugged, or yanked on that thing nearly thirty times. It bothered me so much, I made a drinking game out of it!

Edited December 29, 2025 by Jaysee

[Figs and Mice]

Yes in the early books Nynaeve is a bit hard to love because of the way her dogged belief that she is always right leads her to rather riding roughshod over the opinions or wishes of others : but even there it is clear enough that she always acts for what she sees as the benefit of all...  Could argue that she is the least self-centred of all the main characters , and the one on whom you could always rely for support in adversity. The stubbornness and resistance to seeing others' points of view is always going to rub people up the wrong way though.

 

She develops - albeit in fits and starts - over the later books and by the end became just about my favourite female character . Possibly because of some shared characteristics with my wife 😉

[CrescentoTWNR]

17 hours ago, Jaysee said:

Let me preface this by saying I haven't made it through all the books yet. I don't hate her, but the braid tugging got out of control in The Dragon Reborn. By the time you get to the end of the book she has gripped, pulled, tugged, or yanked on that thing nearly thirty times. It bothered me so much, I made a drinking game out of it!

She's going to rip that braid out of her scalp one of these days, mark my words.

[Elgee]

On 12/29/2025 at 2:31 AM, Sabio said:

Early in Two Rivers she shows no respect to the village council and I think and even hits Cein Blue with a stick.  She was the show me respect as Wisdom but never felt she had to show others.  I ended up liking her but early on she was a bully.

 

I also feel the same, but then I also sympathize with her.

When most people around you act like idiots, then you tend to over time start acting like they really are idiots. Who's to blame?

[Andra]

On 12/28/2025 at 5:31 PM, Sabio said:

Early in Two Rivers she shows no respect to the village council and I think and even hits Cein Blue with a stick.  She was the show me respect as Wisdom but never felt she had to show others.  I ended up liking her but early on she was a bully.

One thing:

In Two Rivers villages, the Wisdom is the political equal to the Mayor.  She outranked literally everyone else on the Village Council.

The reason she acted the way she did is because she felt - very acutely - every slight that came her way because she was considered "too young for her role."  

There was a very real basis for this, but she was also unreasonably sensitive to things a more emotionally-mature person would have shrugged off.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

And indeed, if you look at how many people were only respecting her in as much as they didn't want whacked with her stick rather than respecting her authority it is difficult to lay the blame entirely on her. 

[Mailman]

9 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

And indeed, if you look at how many people were only respecting her in as much as they didn't want whacked with her stick rather than respecting her authority it is difficult to lay the blame entirely on her. 

It really feels like you are saying the bullied and abused must share some of the blame for her physical violence being effective. I doubt, and hope it was not, that was your intention.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

13 minutes ago, Mailman said:

It really feels like you are saying the bullied and abused must share some of the blame for her physical violence being effective. I doubt, and hope it was not, that was your intention.

Of course not. What I am saying is that she had an important function and deserved respect that she wasn't given. Because that respect was necessary for her to perform her role. What I am saying is that they share some of the blame for it being necessary. 

 

Now obviously in real life, I would be looking at this differently, but in a world that among other things is choc-a-block full of corporal punishment, and has a literal personification of evil - I'm quite happy saying they should be respecting her democratically elected authority without the need of a stick. I seem to remember that the Mayor was not above threatening people with Master Luhan's muscles if they did not behave. I don't see this, in the context of the story, as anything different - especially as it is more about character building than justifying physical bullying - which is kind of a thing throughout the story, especially for young women. 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Of course not. What I am saying is that she had an important function and deserved respect that she wasn't given. Because that respect was necessary for her to perform her role. What I am saying is that they share some of the blame for it being necessary. 

 

Now obviously in real life, I would be looking at this differently, but in a world that among other things is choc-a-block full of corporal punishment, and has a literal personification of evil - I'm quite happy saying they should be respecting her democratically elected authority without the need of a stick. I seem to remember that the Mayor was not above threatening people with Master Luhan's muscles if they did not behave. I don't see this, in the context of the story, as anything different - especially as it is more about character building than justifying physical bullying - which is kind of a thing throughout the story, especially for young women. 

Nynaeve was not democratically appointed.

 

The mayor used the illusion of a threat in Luhans's muscles to directly counter an explicit threat to burn down the Inn and kill or injure people. If you cannot see the difference between that and actually striking people whom you deem are disrespecting you then you need to look closer. The mayor did not threaten to assault Cenn when he was aware that he had disrespected the council and himself by divulging the fireworks.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

Nynaeve was not democratically appointed.

 

The mayor used the illusion of a threat in Luhans's muscles to directly counter an explicit threat to burn down the Inn and kill or injure people. If you cannot see the difference between that and actually striking people whom you deem are disrespecting you then you need to look closer. The mayor did not threaten to assault Cenn when he was aware that he had disrespected the council and himself by divulging the fireworks.

I see. I had not realised that they would have let them burn down the inn if they had insisted. Obviously I misunderstood. 

 

I'm pretty sure the Wisdom is elected by the Women's Circle. You aren't suggesting that isn't democratic, are you? 

 

Nor are you commenting on all the corporal punishment of children and women. 

 

Yes in real life physical violence is terrible. This is a story. A story where Nymaeve's character is displayed partly by her propensity to hit people with a stick for not obeying her authority which is entirely in keeping with their societal norms. Indeed one can say she is only noticeable because she is a woman hitting men. And if people in Emond's Field didn't want hit, they only had to not disrespect her, more or less. If you want to call that victim blaming, be my guest. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Actually I've just remembered the bit I was thinking about the Wisdom being elected was actually Nynaeve's arches where the Wisdom had convinced the women to convince their husbands to vote for Cenn for Mayor. Was it Cenn? Hmm. I was misremembering that that was how the evil Wisdom was elected, but actually it was her controlling who was Mayor. My bad. 

 

Anyway, maybe I'm misremembering that the Wisdom is elected. But as that may be, she still has rightful authority. 

[Mailman]

3 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I see. I had not realised that they would have let them burn down the inn if they had insisted. Obviously I misunderstood. 

 

I'm pretty sure the Wisdom is elected by the Women's Circle. You aren't suggesting that isn't democratic, are you? 

 

Nor are you commenting on all the corporal punishment of children and women. 

 

Yes in real life physical violence is terrible. This is a story. A story where Nymaeve's character is displayed partly by her propensity to hit people with a stick for not obeying her authority which is entirely in keeping with their societal norms. Indeed one can say she is only noticeable because she is a woman hitting men. And if people in Emond's Field didn't want hit, they only had to not disrespect her, more or less. If you want to call that victim blaming, be my guest. 

 

2 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Actually I've just remembered the bit I was thinking about the Wisdom being elected was actually Nynaeve's arches where the Wisdom had convinced the women to convince their husbands to vote for Cenn for Mayor. Was it Cenn? Hmm. I was misremembering that that was how the evil Wisdom was elected, but actually it was her controlling who was Mayor. My bad. 

 

Anyway, maybe I'm misremembering that the Wisdom is elected. But as that may be, she still has rightful authority. 

If I remember rightly the Wisdom is the leader of all woman's circles in each village. The new wisdom is usually trained by the previous (watch hill i think appointed a trained wisdom from another village to avoid any favouritism).

 

I am unsure within the villages what corporal punishment you are referring to among the adults is?

The only example i can come up with is the couple who slept together before marriage and that would have been a punishment decided by the womans circle not just a random temper tantrum.

I am not ignoring it with the children it is simply not relevant to include a parent disciplining a child in this discussion, and no I do not condone it as a method of discipline.

 

This discussion has to do with a grown woman physically striking people simply for an actual or a perceived lack of respect. Saying that this actual or perceived lack of respect is enough to place some of the responsibility on the assaulted is not okay.

 

Yes I will call it victim blaming because it is.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:41 AM by Mailman

[Elgee]

@Mailman I think we can agree to disagree. Not all people have the same cultures and the same core beliefs, and just because some people have one belief (I'm using this as a general term, not a strictly religious term), that does not mean they're right and everyone else is wrong. Beliefs are fluid in any case. 

 

I'll just use an example which springs to mind: 

 

In the TV series, Aviendha was beaten in her face and other body parts with fists by her 2 fellow Maidens.

Some people thought this was much more acceptable than the spanking she would have received in the books. 

I, on the other hand, was appalled by both the attack with fists in the face, and by other people thinking that was better than a spanking. I'm absolutely horrified by both those things. But, I accept that for some reason some societies now believe that way so I'm not going to go verbally attack them over it.

 

[Caelan Arendor]

On 12/28/2025 at 8:09 AM, Sabio said:

Because early on she is simply a bully, throwing tantrums, talking down to others, and using threats to get her way.  Later she is much more likeable as she grows, but early in the series she is simply someone who tries to bully her way through things.

Many of the female characters in The Wheel of Time behave in this manner. I refer to it as toxic femininity, and it constitutes an exact mirror image of the toxic masculinity that can be found today in certain strata of American society—extending even into the highest levels of politics, though as an outsider I refrain from naming names. A wink to those inclined to draw their own conclusions.

[Mailman]

8 hours ago, Elgee said:

@Mailman I think we can agree to disagree. Not all people have the same cultures and the same core beliefs, and just because some people have one belief (I'm using this as a general term, not a strictly religious term), that does not mean they're right and everyone else is wrong. Beliefs are fluid in any case. 

 

I'll just use an example which springs to mind: 

 

In the TV series, Aviendha was beaten in her face and other body parts with fists by her 2 fellow Maidens.

Some people thought this was much more acceptable than the spanking she would have received in the books. 

I, on the other hand, was appalled by both the attack with fists in the face, and by other people thinking that was better than a spanking. I'm absolutely horrified by both those things. But, I accept that for some reason some societies now believe that way so I'm not going to go verbally attack them over it.

 

But it's not even that.

 

Emonds Field does not have people wandering about assaulting each other for lack of respect, it is only Nynaeve.

 

The example you provide in relation to the Aiel everyone in the society is operating under the same societal norms.

 

The Aiel in the books did not have an obsession with spanking that I remember. The punishments seemed to vary in my memory and often seemed specifically targeted to cause the individual the most discomfort mentally rather than physically. Aviendha was subjected to running laps, cleaning, a set of stripes from Amys (unsure if this was limited to the rear) and when they went all out it was meaningless work that was prescribed not physical punishment.