90's Action Hero Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins

keyholder21 · April 26

2 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Right, gone back to look in the horse's mouth. Still think this stinks. Hindsight of Rand being the Doc does not make it any better. You are totally overplaying the "obvious" nature of the hints. You are focusing on details to accuse the person that saved the cop claimee of being scummy ignoring that scummy would have strung them up, and definitely we know now that there was no collusion - one of the many situations suggested by DPR.

I stand wholly by my summary of this being a totally weird take on the EoD. Your claim that I never read your posts makes no sense. I did not remember wrong.

Bold is a good point. But why bring up DPR here???

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

16 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

Bold - exactly my point about it would be a weird thing to argue about on thread after a supposed partner was just killed for lying???

So why argue lying about what happened is town leaning? I don't get you. It is definitely a weird thing. I don't see it would be weirder as mafia.

17 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

I also hate this argument re: most emo player. We can't avoid people for their emotion?? If someone sees something they think is sketchy they are going to point it out??

I just literally said I'm not talking about avoiding. I'm saying why lie about factual, easily disproven facts, and refuse to back down when other people show proof targeting someone he has repeatedly called emo. What is his motivation for doing so? I don't get why you are focusing on my actions which didn't happen instead of his actions which did. You seem very invested, no? Or are you just spit balling possibilities?

20 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

Bold - I don't know what you mean by I haven't offered an explanation?

So you are talking about how unlikely these things are im talking about but not offering anything that is more likely. So even if something is unlikely, if it is the most likely explanation, that is significant, no? Without alternatives, it doesn't really matter how unlikely.

20 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

What does hider have anything to do with this? It feels like you are trying to make it confusing by adding this in??

He claims to be the hider. Should his actions then not be consistent with that? I think they are consistent with mafia. I don't get why you seem to be defending him so strongly. Am I misreading your intention?

DPR · April 26

7 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

Bold is a good point. But why bring up DPR here???

That’s kind of his thing lol

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

6 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

Bold is a good point. But why bring up DPR here???

Because DPR is at the bottom of everything!

Or well all my reads hinge around him being mafia. So if he isn't, as I have pointed out elsewhere, I both suck at this game and I have no idea what is going on either. Which would be slightly disheartening. But I have my WiM back, and I'm going to see this to the bitter end.

Tigraine · April 26

28 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

This is a really good question. @Tigraine response?

Nothing anyone has posted states that the condemner actually knows their targets character....except Turin. Maybe the condemner does, maybe not. But why would Turin be informed that the condemner does when the rest of the group wasn't unless he was the condemner. And why would he lie, if he didn't have ulterior motives?

like I said, maybe he just thought thats what it meant but we can't ask him. So I'm hoping to get clarification from either Darthe or at the very least, he sends the same message to Iron to clear it up.

11 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

Bold is a good point. But why bring up DPR here???

If you have read ANYTHING I have said about this or better yet, actually read the original posts by me that he is misrepresenting then you would realize no, it is not a good point. It's being a hypocrite for doing to me EXACTLY what he has accused others of doing to him

@HeavyHalfMoonBlade you said something earlier that I meant to respond to before I got sidetracked with this condemner stuff. I'm going to find it now so I can't know exactly what you said and respond to it....you should try it sometime.

keyholder21 · April 26

8 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

So why argue lying about what happened is town leaning? I don't get you. It is definitely a weird thing. I don't see it would be weirder as mafia.

I'm not arguing it is town leaning? I'm saying I don't see scum doing it if a scummate just got caught on thread for lying. That is not the same thing as saying it's town leaning???

8 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I just literally said I'm not talking about avoiding. I'm saying why lie about factual, easily disproven facts, and refuse to back down when other people show proof targeting someone he has repeatedly called emo. What is his motivation for doing so? I don't get why you are focusing on my actions which didn't happen instead of his actions which did. You seem very invested, no? Or are you just spit balling possibilities?

I don't know what you mean about me focusing on your actions? You brought up the argument about being emo being a reason he should have left you alone??

8 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

So you are talking about how unlikely these things are im talking about but not offering anything that is more likely. So even if something is unlikely, if it is the most likely explanation, that is significant, no? Without alternatives, it doesn't really matter how unlikely.

He claims to be the hider. Should his actions then not be consistent with that? I think they are consistent with mafia. I don't get why you seem to be defending him so strongly. Am I misreading your intention?

I don't understand the first paragraph?

I'm not trying to defend DPR's actions, as much as I am suspicious of your "case" and how you refuse to consider from a different angle???

DPR · April 26

10 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

So why argue lying about what happened is town leaning? I don't get you. It is definitely a weird thing. I don't see it would be weirder as mafia.

I just literally said I'm not talking about avoiding. I'm saying why lie about factual, easily disproven facts, and refuse to back down when other people show proof targeting someone he has repeatedly called emo. What is his motivation for doing so? I don't get why you are focusing on my actions which didn't happen instead of his actions which did. You seem very invested, no? Or are you just spit balling possibilities?

So you are talking about how unlikely these things are im talking about but not offering anything that is more likely. So even if something is unlikely, if it is the most likely explanation, that is significant, no? Without alternatives, it doesn't really matter how unlikely.

He claims to be the hider. Should his actions then not be consistent with that? I think they are consistent with mafia. I don't get why you seem to be defending him so strongly. Am I misreading your intention?

Dude, you’re all of two and a half games into your mafia journey. Take a moment to understand that , and I know this sounds crazy but, you don’t understand everything yet. This is gettin’ a little weird.

DPR · April 26

20 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Because DPR is at the bottom of everything!

Or well all my reads hinge around him being mafia. So if he isn't, as I have pointed out elsewhere, I both suck at this game and I have no idea what is going on either. Which would be slightly disheartening. But I have my WiM back, and I'm going to see this to the bitter end.

Zander? · April 26

40 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

What?

I would become I know most people would come to the same conclusion you did lol also anyone else besides Turin I'd prolly straight up agree with you tho because it's Turin....tho I don't think it's likely....I won't say 100% he wouldn't/didn't lol

Zander? · April 26

3 minutes ago, DPR said:

I miss that tho Gif version way better lololololol

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

8 minutes ago, DPR said:

Dude, you’re all of two and a half games into your mafia journey. Take a moment to understand that , and I know this sounds crazy but, you don’t understand everything yet. This is gettin’ a little weird.

Hey Ithi asked, I answered and Key is going through it. I'm just trying to show WiM and conviction in my theories. Trying to low key bully me off you isn't a good look, even if you mean it well.

You want me to stop discussing you'll need to tell the other players to stop asking about it, otherwise I'll get accused of being mafia for not answering them.

keyholder21 · April 26

12 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

Nothing anyone has posted states that the condemner actually knows their targets character....except Turin. Maybe the condemner does, maybe not. But why would Turin be informed that the condemner does when the rest of the group wasn't unless he was the condemner. And why would he lie, if he didn't have ulterior motives?

I was just in a game with Turin and he was obsessive about mechanics. I can see him PMing darthe for clarification.

I maintain, why would someone who is third party post clarifying posts about their role in the game? I just DO NOT see it happening.

12 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

like I said, maybe he just thought thats what it meant but we can't ask him. So I'm hoping to get clarification from either Darthe or at the very least, he sends the same message to Iron to clear it up.

Why would IE clear anything up if he's the condemner??? He's not going to come on thread and be like, "yep, this is what my PM says"???

12 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

If you have read ANYTHING I have said about this or better yet, actually read the original posts by me that he is misrepresenting then you would realize no, it is not a good point. It's being a hypocrite for doing to me EXACTLY what he has accused others of doing to him

Okay, then quote them for me? I have literally posted about not being able to keep up this game.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

16 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

It's being a hypocrite for doing to me EXACTLY what he has accused others of doing to him

The post Key was quoting literally had you post quoted in it. Or maybe the post before that hut it is a total misrep to claim I am ignoring what you said.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

15 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

I'm not arguing it is town leaning? I'm saying I don't see scum doing it if a scummate just got caught on thread for lying. That is not the same thing as saying it's town leaning???

This is getting weird. Surely unlikely for mafia is the definition of Town leaning? Are you not also saying the converse of likely for town?

15 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

I don't know what you mean about me focusing on your actions? You brought up the argument about being emo being a reason he should have left you alone??

I never said he should have left me alone and this is the third time I have told you this. You are arguing this rather hard and misrepping what I'm saying. I stand by my point. You are talking about me melting down or not and ignoring the super weird way DPR was going after me which did happen, the meltdown did not.

15 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

I don't understand the first paragraph?

Statistics. The chances of any isolated thing happening is irrelevant, it is the relative chances of something happening compared to the other possibilities that is important.

15 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

I'm not trying to defend DPR's actions, as much as I am suspicious of your "case" and how you refuse to consider from a different angle???

I'm not refusing anything and you have got one weird way of not defending people. You have not said a single thing that was not either in his favour or deflecting towards me. Really sketching me out. Why are you even engaging on this if you think it such rubbish? I can see zero reason but to defend DPR. I don't see that you are adding anything to my thoughts, just negating them. How is it you don't think that is defending?

Ironeyes · April 26

Popping in between family photos. Tigraine's whole thing against me is angle shooty as all get out.

1 hour ago, Tigraine said:

If something is inconsistent then there has to be a reason unless it was a misunderstanding on Turin's part but he isn't in the game any longer so we can't confirm that.

@Ironeyes were you provided with the PM which Darthe sent Turin in response to his questions?

I was not

DPR · April 26

6 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Hey Ithi asked, I answered and Key is going through it. I'm just trying to show WiM and conviction in my theories. Trying to low key bully me off you isn't a good look, even if you mean it well.

You want me to stop discussing you'll need to tell the other players to stop asking about it, otherwise I'll get accused of being mafia for not answering them.

Vote me, case me, troll me all you want. I’m just letting you know that you’re making it weird.

But hey, some people like it weird. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

6 minutes ago, DPR said:

Vote me, case me, troll me all you want. I’m just letting you know that you’re making it weird.

But hey, some people like it weird. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

That is a bizarrely tangential answer. You warned me what? That you aren't mafia? Thanks for the heads up. Noted.

Ithillian Turambar · April 26

I think I kind of agree with the thoughts that Turin would absolutely want to know all the details of a role, but I thought I'd read back because why would he bother to ask the question of Darthe as to how the condemner worked in the first place? What caused him to need to ask?

And if he was the condemner why would he post all that info in the thread to help Town?

so I'd seen a lot of chatter earlier when I was looking for timestamps.

This is something that I didn't even clock at the time.

On 4/22/2025 at 10:29 AM, Turin Turambar said:

I'm waiting to hear from Darthe about some setup questions but I think town needs to be active on this night and provide a much cover as possible for our power roles.

Also, everyone should try to make there own read lists with reasoning so we get as much info as possible from a night where up to 3 townies could die.

Like, if I'm the cop... etc

There are 4 roles that can help us tonight. We need to do what we can to let them work.

Yes Turin talking setup and mechanics, blah blah blah. I don't care. I'm pretty sure Darthe said it was okay.

On 4/22/2025 at 11:39 AM, Turin Turambar said:

I would say the chance of Ironeyes being the target is small (1/12, 1/9 if mafia are excluded). It is possible but an SK still wants to kill mafias, especially the RB and strongman.

First. Due to the probability of multiple townies dying tonight, we should all try to give our thoughts. That way the rest of the town can see where we are knowing we're town. Second, and this could be incorporated in the list, indicating who we would doc, cop, shoot, hide behind. The Doc may not matter as the Strongman can kill thru the doc protect. If everyone does it, it gives mafia more to think about and maybe they make a mistake or just do something sub optimal.

Oh, and you can't choose yourself for any action. That should go without saying but yeah.

So he is saying at this point that he thinks there could be 3 deaths in a night.

On 4/22/2025 at 2:14 PM, DPR said:

@Turin Turambar Walk me through your *3 Town deaths tonight scenario*

We have a Condemner, who would have been pushing a lynch on their target, but Marsh wasn’t it or else the Condemner would be removed from the game, as per the setup explanations. I guess it’s possible that could be announced at daybreak, but it seems like it would have been

DPR questions this because a condemner, according to the wiki, has to be on the Lynch of their target.

On 4/22/2025 at 2:36 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Because I misunderstood the condemner role. I just read it on the wiki. I thought it was like a vig/hit man kinda thing based on things I thought Darthe said. I didn't realise they had to lynch a player. That's what I get for being so sure about something to not check.

I thought that the Condemner could kill their target since they became a SK. The mafia will kill someone.most likely. The hider could unfortunately hide behind a killed player. That would be 3. However, I was epically wrong.

I'll just go sit in the corner for now.

So he ends this exchange with saying he misunderstood and that he made a mistake.

And if he did make a mistake then he would maybe ask Darthe to clarify. Turin does not like not knowing all the nitty gritty.

And then he posts the big info dump that he got from Darthe and then later Darthe comes in and says yeah my bad, I made the Condemner cooler.

So I can see both sides of this. Town Turin needs to know everything. Makes a mistake in the Thread because he doesnt know what a condemner does and has assumed it's a night kill. That drives him nuts so he asks Darthe to explain what that role does and then shares all that info with us, including the warning not to give our character names. We all know how he can be a bit 110% at times.

But contrarywise, Turin was expecting multiple kills because he knew the condemner was a Night Kill thing. He never checked the set up, just his PM, so talked about it in the thread. Got called out cos standard condemner doesn't kill at night.

Had a chat with Darthe and did the expo drop to cover his own arse.

keyholder21 · April 26

11 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

This is getting weird. Surely unlikely for mafia is the definition of Town leaning? Are you not also saying the converse of likely for town?

I feel like you are purposefully twisting this??? I'm not saying I think his actions were pro-town. I am saying I think they are extremely unlikely for mafia considering how Ed got caught.

11 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I never said he should have left me alone and this is the third time I have told you this. You are arguing this rather hard and misrepping what I'm saying. I stand by my point. You are talking about me melting down or not and ignoring the super weird way DPR was going after me which did happen, the meltdown did not.

You said he was going after you because you were emotional. You brought up a meltdown as a possibility, not me. I am not ignoring his posts about you, they are literally at the heart of all these posts???

11 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Statistics. The chances of any isolated thing happening is irrelevant, it is the relative chances of something happening compared to the other possibilities that is important.

I still don't understand what you meant??

11 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I'm not refusing anything and you have got one weird way of not defending people. You have not said a single thing that was not either in his favour or deflecting towards me. Really sketching me out. Why are you even engaging on this if you think it such rubbish? I can see zero reason but to defend DPR. I don't see that you are adding anything to my thoughts, just negating them. How is it you don't think that is defending?

I started this exchange with adding to them?????

lol, I feel like I am beating my head against a wall. You're right, I should not engage any more.

Ithillian Turambar · April 26

It's kind of awkward, cos I thought Turin was probably Town, but the stuff I found is now making me go back and forth.

DPR · April 26

6 minutes ago, Ithillian Turambar said:

I think I kind of agree with the thoughts that Turin would absolutely want to know all the details of a role, but I thought I'd read back because why would he bother to ask the question of Darthe as to how the condemner worked in the first place? What caused him to need to ask?

And if he was the condemner why would he post all that info in the thread to help Town?

so I'd seen a lot of chatter earlier when I was looking for timestamps.

This is something that I didn't even clock at the time.

So he is saying at this point that he thinks there could be 3 deaths in a night.

DPR questions this because a condemner, according to the wiki, has to be on the Lynch of their target.

So he ends this exchange with saying he misunderstood and that he made a mistake.

And if he did make a mistake then he would maybe ask Darthe to clarify. Turin does not like not knowing all the nitty gritty.

And then he posts the big info dump that he got from Darthe and then later Darthe comes in and says yeah my bad, I made the Condemner cooler.

So I can see both sides of this. Town Turin needs to know everything. Makes a mistake in the Thread because he doesnt know what a condemner does and has assumed it's a night kill. That drives him nuts so he asks Darthe to explain what that role does and then shares all that info with us, including the warning not to give our character names. We all know how he can be a bit 110% at times.

But contrarywise, Turin was expecting multiple kills because he knew the condemner was a Night Kill thing. He never checked the set up, just his PM, so talked about it in the thread. Got called out cos standard condemner doesn't kill at night.

Had a chat with Darthe and did the expo drop to cover his own arse.

But no version of Condemner would have resulted in multi kills?

I wrote it off too because Turin. But it’s odd that he brought it up at all unless he was thinking to look for a lynch leader based on the original role description? I dunno

Ithillian Turambar · April 26

Well 2 kills could be if the Mafia happened to hit town and the hider was hiding behind that town.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

5 minutes ago, keyholder21 said:

I feel like you are purposefully twisting this??? I'm not saying I think his actions were pro-town. I am saying I think they are extremely unlikely for mafia considering how Ed got caught.

You said he was going after you because you were emotional. You brought up a meltdown as a possibility, not me. I am not ignoring his posts about you, they are literally at the heart of all these posts???

I still don't understand what you meant??

I started this exchange with adding to them?????

lol, I feel like I am beating my head against a wall. You're right, I should not engage any more.

I think we have probably exhausted the benefits to had from discussing it further. I think we are now in the "you are misrepping me, no you are misrepping me" stage of the conversation.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

I suppose for Turin it would come to if Darthe anywhere mentioned NK for the role in the lead up to the game. Because given the confusion, it does seem unlikely that he got that info from the wiki. Indeed if everyone else was thinking it was the wiki role, then it would have to Turin. Except, WIFOM, the real Condemner did not want to bring it up for exactly this reason. Seems a shame though if someone is outed due to a mod slip. Though I suppose there is nothing to be done about that. It is still WIFOM however you look at it.

If that makes sense.

HeavyHalfMoonBlade · April 26

Anyway, good night guys. See you in the morning.

90's Action Hero Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins

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