S3E6 - The Shadow in the Night

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/4/2025 at 5:09 AM, Sabio said:

A weak way for Perin and Faile to bond over tragedy and left a lot of questions.  Mom killed Faile's brother and Faile fled, so what happened to mom?  It was just a weak way for Perin to transition in he understood and his killing his wife.  Even though Perin did plant an axe in his wife, so not sure it's totally equal.

 

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I think they could both be equally traumatic. Imagine learning that your mother is a darkfriend and she killed your brother. IRL, that would like learning your mother is a Satan worshipper and she sacrificed your brother in a Satanic ritual.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/4/2025 at 6:24 AM, Mailman said:

Also wouldn't your natural reaction to someone telling you that the horn had been sounded be disbelief, I'm not sure what the picture proved and how does anyone actually know what it looked like since it has been lost for 1000's of years so how she recognized it is beyond me.

 

The fact that she is a hunter is a book beat theft as well, the hunt has hardly been mentioned in the show and the fact that she is a hunter this is what the 2nd time it is mentioned.

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  On 4/4/2025 at 6:24 AM, Mailman said:

Also wouldn't your natural reaction to someone telling you that the horn had been sounded be disbelief, I'm not sure what the picture proved and how does anyone actually know what it looked like since it has been lost for 1000's of years so how she recognized it is beyond me.

 

The fact that she is a hunter is a book beat theft as well, the hunt has hardly been mentioned in the show and the fact that she is a hunter this is what the 2nd time it is mentioned.

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I don't think most people would be that easily convinced either, but maybe she already has a sense of Perrin's honest nature?

 

What do you mean about book beat theft? Don't we want the show to be as faithful to the books as possible?

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/4/2025 at 6:46 AM, forte12 said:

I really wish you would just stop posting or watching this show- it's not fun to read your takes anymore or to really have you in the discussion

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I just started following this forum as of Ep5, so I don't know what their takes on the first 4 episodes were, but no one is forcing you to read their posts. When you see their name, just move on. 

[Kaleb]

  On 4/4/2025 at 7:45 PM, Yamezt said:

"Where one's not enough and three's too many
And two bring a man to his knees"

 

So the lyrics has a third meaning I didn't pick up on till someone else pointed it out to me (1) landscape Hills (2) bosom (3) the statue (where a collared man is on his knees with 2 women)

 

 

 

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Hills

Boobs

Bracelets

 

I love that Thom followed up the song with the history lesson on the shackled man to connect it even further.

 

[Maximillion]

Probably my favourite episode.

Tanchico was especially well done.

 

The only issue for me was how quickly Matt's sisters learned how to heal. 

Not sure how they are going to fit the rest of book 4 into the last 2 episodes and after that?  If there is a season 4 I suspect it will be AT least 2027 before we see it.

Have they even started filming yet?  

 

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/4/2025 at 12:56 PM, DreadLord31 said:

Ok. I’m back to 5 out of 10. 
It happens pretty fast but she does fall asleep. And … there’s reasonable doubt that they’re fire spears. 
 

Still bothered that they Definitely Did have a fire spear through the chest in Sammael one moment and he’s fine the next and a Shaido slice Egwene and she’s fine the next moment … 

Lot of that kind of stuff makes my confidence that they’re gonna execute the battle of the Two Rivers well … not high. And that would be a major bummer cause I’m pretty sure if this season is a flop they’re done … 

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That kind of stuff is like mindless action flicks where they don't care if stuff makes sense. It really cheapens the show. 

 

The battle of Emond's Field is one of my favorite parts of the books. If they blow it, I'll be very upset.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/4/2025 at 4:54 PM, DreadLord31 said:

 

It's subtle. But it's definitely there. Look of surprise when audience woman makes ... gesture. Looks at Thom, he gives her the "you asked for it" look. And then she "gets it" and goes for it.

 

The Wheel Of Time | “The Hills of Tanchico” - Elayne Trakand featuring Thom Merrilin. Stream it now on WOTify. | Instagram

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Thanks for sharing the link! I never would have thought to look for a specific clip like that. And I really love that scene. I love Mat's reactions - first he kind of gasp/scoffs when he realizes Elayne really can sing, and then he's like "Wow, I can't believe she's actually singing this, but I like it!"

 

Thom is clearly pleased she really can sing. And I like that he has a kind of beat up guitar. It goes better with his rougher nature. Side note - it will be interesting to see what they do with his character. He mentions having been in the court of Andor, so it will not be unbelievable if he shows himself to be savvy about politics among the upper classes.

 

I love how Elayne just goes with it once she understands what the song is about. Very Elayne.

 

I also like the pirate port of call vibe in the pub scenes. I keep remembering Pirates of the Caribbean. 😄

[Fiona_12]

So after another rewatch, I've changed my rating from 6 to 7. I was REALLY tired yesterday, and even watching twice, I missed a few key things of they just didn't really sink in.

 

Alanna's healing and Aviendha and Egwene getting badly injured and then quickly being okay are both still big negatives for me. 

 

There's something else and I don't know if I'm not remembering the books correctly. Does any Aes Sedai ever describe feeling like they were going to be drowned by the OP, like Moiraine did when talking to Rand? I want to say no, and if that's correct, then I feel it was a poor way to set up that conversation. Also, Moiraine is basically asking Rand's advice, but then tells him he's wrong when he answers because Saidar and Saidin are different. (Aes Sedai know that make and female channelers cannot help each other in learning to channel.) Their conversation conveys useful information, but feels clunky to me.

[Mailman]

  On 4/4/2025 at 7:51 PM, Fiona_12 said:

 

I don't think most people would be that easily convinced either, but maybe she already has a sense of Perrin's honest nature?

 

What do you mean about book beat theft? Don't we want the show to be as faithful to the books as possible?

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In the books she talks about being a hunter often and her arc to learning the truth is much longer and comes after learning that one of the forsaken is free. 

 

In the show we met her what about mid episode 3 of this season and she has mentioned being a hunter all of a couple of times and her screen time has been incredibly small and she finds out the truth before the end of episode 6. She actually joins Perrin and the rest of the group to lead her to the Horn as it is trail worth following, here she is already in the 2R. All the build up is lost that is why it is a book beat theft.

[Mailman]

  On 4/4/2025 at 11:29 PM, Fiona_12 said:

So after another rewatch, I've changed my rating from 6 to 7. I was REALLY tired yesterday, and even watching twice, I missed a few key things of they just didn't really sink in.

 

Alanna's healing and Aviendha and Egwene getting badly injured and then quickly being okay are both still big negatives for me. 

 

There's something else and I don't know if I'm not remembering the books correctly. Does any Aes Sedai ever describe feeling like they were going to be drowned by the OP, like Moiraine did when talking to Rand? I want to say no, and if that's correct, then I feel it was a poor way to set up that conversation. Also, Moiraine is basically asking Rand's advice, but then tells him he's wrong when he answers because Saidar and Saidin are different. (Aes Sedai know that make and female channelers cannot help each other in learning to channel.) Their conversation conveys useful information, but feels clunky to me.

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When the girls are learning to surrender to the power they describe being pulled under the surface like a strong current when they try and force the power to do what they want and only when they relax and guide it does it flow easily.

 

I am also fairly sure when Rand is using Saidar at the cleansing that he also tries to force it like Saidan and he describes it as looking placid but when he attempts to force it that it pulls him under the vast torrents of the power.

 

Saidar is often described as a river with deep currents as well.

 

If you are referencing sheer amounts of the power I don't think they ever equated that to drowning.

Edited April 5 by Mailman

[DreadLord31]

  On 4/4/2025 at 8:59 PM, Fiona_12 said:

Thom is clearly pleased she really can sing. And I like that he has a kind of beat up guitar. It goes better with his rougher nature. Side note - it will be interesting to see what they do with his character. He mentions having been in the court of Andor, so it will not be unbelievable if he shows himself to be savvy about politics among the upper classes.

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I reaally hope that basically from now until the end of the season Thom is always with Matt. 
“There’s nothing more dangerous than a man who knows the past.” is still my favorite line of the show! 

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/5/2025 at 12:19 AM, Mailman said:

When the girls are learning to surrender to the power they describe being pulled under the surface like a strong current when they try and force the power to do what they want and only when they relax and guide it does it flow easily.

 

I am also fairly sure when Rand is using Saidar at the cleansing that he also tries to force it like Saidan and he describes it as looking placid but when he attempts to force it that it pulls him under the vast torrents of the power.

 

Saidar if often described as a river with deep currents as well.

 

If you are referencing sheer amounts of the power I don't think they ever equated that to drowning.

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I know when women are first learning to channel they have that feeling of being pulled under by a strong current, but once they learn how to surrender to it, they no longer have that problem and they are able to surrender without even thinking about it. It is second nature long before they actually become Aes Sedai.

 

Watching Moiraine struggle against Sakarnen in E5 felt strange for that reason also. It makes me think that Sakarnen will lack the buffer that sa'angreal usually have just like Callandor. And I wonder if an Aes Sedai who is more powerful than Moiraine, like Nyaneave, will feel that same sense of drowning.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/5/2025 at 12:38 AM, DreadLord31 said:

I reaally hope that basically from now until the end of the season Thom is always with Matt. 
“There’s nothing more dangerous than a man who knows the past.” is still my favorite line of the show! 

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I always loved Mat and Thom together in the books, and I think I will in the show also. 

 

I don't think Thom is so very different from the books. I thought he always had a roughness to him. He could be very cultured and suave or downright deadly, depending on what the situation required.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/5/2025 at 12:59 AM, Fiona_12 said:

I always loved Mat and Thom together in the books, and I think I will in the show also. 

 

I don't think Thom is so very different from the books. I thought he always had a roughness to him. He could be very cultured and suave or downright deadly, depending on what the situation required.

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 The reason I don’t like the change is that yes, he could be deadly and rough in the book but he hid it behind a facade.  In the show he looks exactly like a guy who might throw a knife in your throat.  I actually thought he was going to take out the guy accosting Elayne.

Edited April 5 by Mirefox

[Mailman]

  On 4/5/2025 at 12:54 AM, Fiona_12 said:

I know when women are first learning to channel they have that feeling of being pulled under by a strong current, but once they learn how to surrender to it, they no longer have that problem and they are able to surrender without even thinking about it. It is second nature long before they actually become Aes Sedai.

 

Watching Moiraine struggle against Sakarnen in E5 felt strange for that reason also. It makes me think that Sakarnen will lack the buffer that sa'angreal usually have just like Callandor. And I wonder if an Aes Sedai who is more powerful than Moiraine, like Nyaneave, will feel that same sense of drowning.

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The buffer was more to with being unable to burn out others in a circle with you than being a buffer on the angreal, it was pertinent to Callandor as it had a flaw that allowed the user to be forced into a circle as well as removing the buffer on burning out those in a circle in the books.

 

In the show we already know that you can burn out those in a circle with you.

 

There was a discussion some time back as to if the show had changed angreal from simply being force multipliers to something more but I can't remember what it was exactly in relation to.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/5/2025 at 12:54 AM, Fiona_12 said:

I know when women are first learning to channel they have that feeling of being pulled under by a strong current, but once they learn how to surrender to it, they no longer have that problem and they are able to surrender without even thinking about it. It is second nature long before they actually become Aes Sedai.

 

Watching Moiraine struggle against Sakarnen in E5 felt strange for that reason also. It makes me think that Sakarnen will lack the buffer that sa'angreal usually have just like Callandor. And I wonder if an Aes Sedai who is more powerful than Moiraine, like Nyaneave, will feel that same sense of drowning.

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I think that stronger channelers can deal with more before feeling overwhelmed.  My take was that she was staggered by the power, the sensation of having that level of power run through her. I kinda relate it to the difference between swimming in a pool or calm lake and swimming in the deep ocean. Your still swimming but the forces around you are greater so you need greater control to achieve going the way you want.

 

I heard somewhere,  maybe even earlier in this thread that Mat's sisters "trick" was healing their mother from illness and or possible domestic violence. So they were already somewhat attuned to healing. I will say that in general in the show healing abilities are more common and stronger than in the books. Iirc in the books Suian couldn't heal more than a scratch and here she brought Elaida back from mortal woundings.

[Sabio]

Well stabbing doesn't seem to be fatal, seems like the only way you can't be healed is to have rocks fall on you.

[Sabio]

  On 4/5/2025 at 1:04 AM, Mirefox said:

 The reason I don’t like the change is that yes, he could be deadly and rough in the book but he hid it behind a facade.  In the show he looks exactly like a guy who might throw a knife in your throat.  I actually thought he was going to take out the guy accosting Elayne.

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I think the biggest difference is in the books gleeman are flashy and full of themselves, here they look like commoners and Thom is more low key.  Thom would perform on a stage and not in the middle of a crowd.  I don't mind the character or change but at the moment it just doesn't feel like Thom.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/5/2025 at 1:04 AM, Mirefox said:

 The reason I don’t like the change is that yes, he could be deadly and rough in the book but he hid it behind a facade.  In the show he looks exactly like a guy who might throw a knife in your throat.  I actually thought he was going to take out the guy accosting Elayne.

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That's a fair point. In the books his entertaining gleeman persona is the one he presents most often to the public. And that's not to say being a gleeman wasn't very much who he was, because it certainly was and he took great pride in it. That and his age would not make people fear he was about to throw a knife at them. 

 

I guess after reading the books for so many years, and so much of his interaction being with people with whom he did not use the facade, I tend to forget how he would appear to strangers.

[Agitel]

Doesn't matter and it was cute enough, but couldn't Rand have set his own toh?

 

lol

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/5/2025 at 1:12 AM, Turin Turambar said:

I think that stronger channelers can deal with more before feeling overwhelmed.  My take was that she was staggered by the power, the sensation of having that level of power run through her. I kinda relate it to the difference between swimming in a pool or calm lake and swimming in the deep ocean. Your still swimming but the forces around you are greater so you need greater control to achieve going the way you want.

 

I heard somewhere,  maybe even earlier in this thread that Mat's sisters "trick" was healing their mother from illness and or possible domestic violence. So they were already somewhat attuned to healing. I will say that in general in the show healing abilities are more common and stronger than in the books. Iirc in the books Suian couldn't heal more than a scratch and here she brought Elaida back from mortal woundings.

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The swimming pool vs ocean is a good analogy. Even if a trained Aes Sedai doesn't feel like she's being drowned by channeling a great deal of the OP, more power requires more effort. 

 

This makes Moiraine's question to Rand make much more sense. She knows  that as the DR, of course he channels much greater amounts of the OP than she does. 

 

I noticed the same about healing. I don't think we've seen an Aes Sedai yet who can't heal even serious wounds. Mat's sisters may have developed some healing talent because of their mother, but I got the impression that Alanna was on death's door. 

 

The overall increase in healing ability means that Nyaneave's talent is going to need to be that much more spectacular to make it something special even among Yellow sisters.

[Fiona_12]

  On 4/5/2025 at 1:33 AM, Agitel said:

Doesn't matter and it was cute enough, but couldn't Rand have set his own toh?

 

lol

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Actually, in the books, doesn't the person who has toh have some say in how much their honor is worth? I seem to remember the Wise Ones saying that to Egwene when they were beating her. Also, it seems like at some point, it was implied that if someone sets their own toh really high, they can be seen as arrogant.

Edited April 5 by Fiona_12

[Agitel]

In the books, people decide how to meet their own toh. 

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode more than not. I have a few specific quibbles with a couple of writing points, but I'm not going to dive into it now. 

[Turin Turambar]

I could see the offending party in an act of contrition being willing to allow the offended party to set the punishment. Akin to I will do whatever you say to make this up to you. That might be the ultimate arrogance though, lol.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/5/2025 at 1:43 AM, Fiona_12 said:

The swimming pool vs ocean is a good analogy. Even if a trained Aes Sedai doesn't feel like she's being drowned by channeling a great deal of the OP, more power requires more effort. 

 

This makes Moiraine's question to Rand make much more sense. She knows  that as the DR, of course he channels much greater amounts of the OP than she does. 

 

I noticed the same about healing. I don't think we've seen an Aes Sedai yet who can't heal even serious wounds. Mat's sisters may have developed some healing talent because of their mother, but I got the impression that Alanna was on death's door. 

 

The overall increase in healing ability means that Nyaneave's talent is going to need to be that much more spectacular to make it something special even among Yellow sisters.

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She had seen the way he handled large amounts of the power. Like if you saw someone really strong at the gym you might ask for advice.

I do agree that it was probably above the Cauthon girls expected abilities to heal Alanna. I expect Nynaeve to be able to mass heal, and also heal mental illnesses, and of course Saidin along with Rand because she is THE MOST POWERFUL CHANNELER IN A THOUSAND YEARS,lolololololol.