Game Over - Hamilton Mafia - SMFDR's Win!

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/6/2025 at 9:25 PM, Turin Turambar said:

He wasn't really. Turin is a big boy. He can take it. Now as CassTurin I have enhanced perspective. 

I know that BOTH trains were townies and Darthe was on one. I think the mafia were spread on each vote wagon and didn't care who got lynched.

 

So we have Darthe on the  CassTurin train, and I think DPR on the Turin train, and that leaves Hallia on the other train.

 

I have a couple reasons but I want to hear what everyone has to say

 

Anyway here is where I am

Town (likely.never voting)

Zander

Key

 

Likely Town

Seph

Gudrean 

 

Null to mafia lean

Dice

Verb

 

Mafia

DPR 

Hallia

 

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My reads for reference 

  On 4/6/2025 at 9:34 PM, keyholder21 said:

@Turin Turambar  My list is pretty similar.  Why a scum lean on dice? I have him as null. I also have Hally as scum lean. 

 

I definitely want to look at DPR today.  I felt toward the end of D1 that maybe I was tunneling, but now know that darthe was mafia and he kept saying DPR was null for him makes me itch since they would have played together a lot.  I also CANNOT get it out of my brain that DPR kept putting me and Hallia together in his lists even though our play has been very different this game.

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Dice was in Null to mafia lean. He was at the top which was closer to Null. Hallia was my most mafia read. She didn't list her reads at that point but asked only about Dice and Hallia. I don't really like that. Then she transitions to wanting to go at DPR. I did suss DPR then, so maybe she thought she could get me to go that way. It now looks to me like she was trying to steer me away from Hally and Dice.

 

I'm a little shook at this point because I was expecting something else from Key and it didn't happen. That is part of an entire different post though. 

[Turin Turambar]

I would like to get some thought out so please don't hammer until this next Long post comes out. 

[Turin Turambar]

BEWARE, THERE BE SPECULATION HERE

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There will be gaming the mod, and speculation about possible roles in here so if you think it's worthless just skip it. But I think there might be something worth hearing. 

Ithi likes balance in her games. That generally means that you can expect roles that either match to an extent or counter other roles. We know that Mafia has /had a Messenger. Why? It could be just to sow chaos. It could also be to assist in searching for a traitor (symp?). Such a role imo would also be a form of balance to the IC we already know exists. In the Wiki, there are various adjustments that can be made to help balance the equation. One is the traitor knows some/all the mafia but they don't know the traitor.  Another is the mafia have to "kill" the traitor to bring them on board to wolf chat. N1 no one died. Now simplest solution to that is a doc save. I concede that. Another is that the mafia actually found their traitor. Action on this can wait, to an extent.

Another thing we know is Darthe died. Now simplest answer here is a vig shot. I would assume that a town vig would be one shot. Phillip would be a reasonable character choice for a vig as he did engage in a duel. Zander was the only one that really hinted at it. I would assume a 1x vig would claim the shot and be essentially clear. That didn't happen so there has to be the possibility of an Serial Killer (the Bullet fits for theme). We can wait to see if there are 2 death nights before really worrying about that though. Finally, Verb got a message, I think from Darthe. I would like to hear the complete thing due to my earlier assumptions about traitor and searching. Again, I don't have any way to confirm it, so...

 

My speculation on the game is that town is pretty stacked. We have evidence of a IC, a watcher, a vig, and I know my role is powerful. So far mafia has only had a messenger. I am suggesting that they also had a traitor but had to waste a kill to bring him in. That implies maybe not as many powerful roles but perhaps some powerful shared team abilities. So that even if players get eliminated the mafias overall power level doesn't go down as much. So maybe a 1x strongman, 1x ninja. Stuff like that.

I also believe that they have some sort of a deflector role. I targeted two different people last night with different abilities and one reached it's intended target ( I believe) and one didn't. So I will know something with Hallia's flip. If she's mafia then most likely Key is as well. If she is town then Seph ( I think) is mafia because I got redirected on both actions. In that case, I think DPR goes back into the mix

 

I could see Dice or Verb as potential traitors. If I live I might know more tomorrow. I don't think I can actually check Key.

 

 

[Zander?]

  On 4/8/2025 at 8:11 AM, Turin Turambar said:

What's wrong Z? 

 

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Nothing from Hallia and just a sort of deflated feeling post from Dice ..makes me sadface.gif

[Turin Turambar]

Seph, if you wanna reveal the contents of your note it is allowed. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm totally assuming he got the message.

 

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/8/2025 at 9:33 AM, Zander? said:

 

Nothing from Hallia and just a sort of deflated feeling post from Dice ..makes me sadface.gif

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Oh. Understandable.  

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/8/2025 at 9:33 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Seph, if you wanna reveal the contents of your note it is allowed. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm totally assuming he got the message.

 

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I totally forgot to put this in as I got distracted by Zander. Lololololol 

 

 

[Zander?]

  On 4/8/2025 at 9:33 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Seph, if you wanna reveal the contents of your note it is allowed. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm totally assuming he got the message.

 

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What I thought Verb got the note....slskdfdx$As*cccccccccccc.             

 

Also I ofc skipped your post I saw gaming the Mod and that was enough to tell me not reading lol. If there's anything else in there you think I should hear you'll have to let know seperetstlyy.

[dicetosser1]

  On 4/8/2025 at 2:48 AM, Zander? said:

 

Dude I'm not God but I'm almost as Villagery tho.  I just mean we shouldn't waste today so let the confirmed Townie be the hammer so we can make sure to limit the wolves ability to hammer a Villager if we're wtong bu perhaps that why you sound mad here lolololol jkjkjkjkk I'm the only one trying apparently to give you and Hallia some time to post but I mean I get RL man but there comes a point where everybody else has found a way to make time and post and it just feels like Wolf outta steam or however you want to call it.

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Its not like ive been inactive dude.

 

Im getting annoyed with the do as i say schtick.  Especially when you then sit there and cast shade at me for not having voted yet, despite being told i wouldnt be active today, but oh i cant vote because you claim that right.

 

Wanna tell me how im sposed to win here? Feels like im going to get mislynched for BS reasons again.

 

 

  On 4/8/2025 at 2:50 AM, Zander? said:

But that post feels much more deflated Dice than the fiery Town Dice tbqh

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Today has sucked. ive been run off my feet all day so thats pretty much what you got  tired dont give a damn Wayne.

 

  On 4/8/2025 at 6:03 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Have a Snickers dude. 

 

If you want to twist it that way, fine. The fact is that everyone in the game has seen the benefits for town of doing so except you, Hallia ( who is about to no longer be an issue), and imo Verb with his lawyering lawyer that lawyers response. To me, refusing  to do simple things that at worst have no negative for town is non town behaviour. 

 

Not sure what you're saying about rules? Unless it's about Hallia not self voting. 

 

So another simple request grumbled at? Okay.

 

Yes?!?!? Why would you hoard something that would be helpful to everyone? So you can protect her when your mafia together??? What if you were killed tonight? Knowledge lost is bad for town. I just don't get it.

 

It's just a question.  I'm assuming by your response that your lynch choice would be Hallia. I don't understand the aggression here. I guess you do you.

 

Fair enough. Sorry your so busy. Work stinks.  I hope your day improves.

 

I think I need a nap. 

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twisting  right   thats basically what you said. 

 

 

the rules was about self voting.

 

Purple  i have no idea what youre saying. Hoard what?  Oh! i get it  the tell!  

 

So lets say you go to vegas and you sit down at the poker table.  You play. Theres a fair amount on the table and youve worked out a tell on someone.

 

Do you tell everyone including the person themselves what the tell is so they can all user it? Or so the person can change it?  Of course you dont.

[Zander?]

  On 4/8/2025 at 10:00 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

 

Its not like ive been inactive dude.

 

Im getting annoyed with the do as i say schtick.  Especially when you then sit there and cast shade at me for not having voted yet, despite being told i wouldnt be active today, but oh i cant vote because you claim that right.

 

Wanna tell me how im sposed to win here? Feels like im going to get mislynched for BS reasons again.

 

 

 

Today has sucked. ive been run off my feet all day so thats pretty much what you got  tired dont give a damn Wayne.

 

 

twisting  right   thats basically what you said. 

 

 

the rules was about self voting.

 

Purple  i have no idea what youre saying. Hoard what?  Oh! i get it  the tell!  

 

So lets say you go to vegas and you sit down at the poker table.  You play. Theres a fair amount on the table and youve worked out a tell on someone.

 

Do you tell everyone including the person themselves what the tell is so they can all user it? Or so the person can change it?  Of course you dont.

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Dude I'm not telling anyone what to do.  I asked originally for the hammer.  Not because I'm gonna pick who everyone votes for just to ensure on the off chance weee wrong on Hallia AND to try and give both of you a chance and post and see what what.  I didn't shade you at all I never mentioned you specifically for not voting of anything.   Not sure where this is coming from homie

[dicetosser1]

Now for turins spoiled post.

 

So it starts off saying dont read it if you dont like mechanics and gaming the mod.

 

So thatll instantly put some people off reading it.

 

Then he does talk  mechanics.

 

but wait! Theres More!  Buried at the bottom is another softing of a role. And its at the bottom of something some people wont read. 

 

Its more vague then the previous one but suddenly hes saying not only did he use the role, but he can use it on MULTIPLE people and seems to indicate that he was told he was redirected.

 

 

 

WTF? since when do you get told you were redirected?  Does anyone know of a role that can be used on multiple people? Cause i cant think of one.

 

Then he tells Seph to reveal the message he was sent. 

 

What. The....???

 

 

[dicetosser1]

  On 4/7/2025 at 7:15 PM, Zander? said:

The fact noone hammered Hallia tells me likely she's a Wolf or both Wolves in her or Dice might just be a Wolf lol

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I get it from this @Zander?

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/8/2025 at 10:08 AM, dicetosser1 said:

Now for turins spoiled post.

 

So it starts off saying dont read it if you dont like mechanics and gaming the mod.

 

So thatll instantly put some people off reading it.

 

Then he does talk  mechanics.

 

but wait! Theres More!  Buried at the bottom is another softing of a role. And its at the bottom of something some people wont read. 

 

Its more vague then the previous one but suddenly hes saying not only did he use the role, but he can use it on MULTIPLE people and seems to indicate that he was told he was redirected.

 

 

 

WTF? since when do you get told you were redirected?  Does anyone know of a role that can be used on multiple people? Cause i cant think of one.

 

Then he tells Seph to reveal the message he was sent. 

 

What. The....???

 

 

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Shhhhhh, it will hopefully make sense soon.  

I didn't say I was redirected.  I said I might have been. But I did try to send a message to Key because  that other guy (TURIN) thought she was town. Key didn't get the message.  I think Seph did based on his posts today. I'm waiting to have him confirm. So I am pretty confident that one of my actions was redirected. The other one will become apparent when Hallia flips. If she's town, both actions redirected.  If she's mafia, only one. 

 

You wanna vote Hallia? I can let you and it won't bother Zander ( I think). 

 

[Turin Turambar]

UNVOTE 

VOTE KEY 

That's to cover bases in case a different thought might be true.

 

Sorry Ithi. Maybe Shad can VC.

[dicetosser1]

So youre saying

 

you have TWO abilities.

 

You can use them BOTH on SEPERATE people on the SAME night?

 

AND one of them can tell you if someones scum?

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/8/2025 at 10:43 AM, dicetosser1 said:

So youre saying

 

you have TWO abilities.

 

You can use them BOTH on SEPERATE people on the SAME night?

 

AND one of them can tell you if someones scum?

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Yep. And I hope to be able to verify  them both by the end of today.

 

If we manage to win, the siggy for this town should be BETTER LUCKY THAN GOOD

 

At least as applied to me. Lololololol 

[Shad_]

  On 4/7/2025 at 12:56 PM, Ithillian Turambar said:

FYI - I have to work from the office tomorrow,  which sucks.

 

That mean I have to be up at 5.45am my time, so I won't be burning the midnight oil with you all tonight.

 

They also have this dumb rule about 'not messing about on your phones at work' so I'm gonna be mostly absent until I get back at around 5pm ish my time.

 

Hopefully @Shad_ will be around with his Teal goodness.

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I just saw this because I had to work from the office yesterday lol

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/7/2025 at 2:05 PM, keyholder21 said:

 

You also said CassTurin was LIKELY mafia.  More wolfy I can understand, but you literally said likely mafia which is different, imo.

 

 

For me it depends both on when Darthe put his vote on CassTurin and why.  But, imo, it is mildly clearing that darthe was around plenty after his vote and did not move his vote.  I'll try to go back today and look at when he vote was and what he said around it.

 

 

To be completely honest, I can follow it just fine?

 

 

See, this is different than thinking she is likely mafia???

 

 

Dude.  You are still grouping us.  I'm going to go back and grab the quotes.  It's WEIRD because WHY do we fall into the same place in your PoE?? NO ONE else has us grouped together.   How in the world when Cass, Dice, and Verb had ALL been less active than me???? It reeks of tying a teammate to a townie - and Hally's vote on you reeks of distancing from a teammate.  I'll go back and grab all the quotes (at least 4 times to show the connection you're painting between me and Hallia. It's also weird that you put us together like EVERY TIME you make a list. 

 

 

I don't understand what you are hinting at, Z.

 

 

I agree that their interaction at EOD looks better for Verb.  I think most of us had darthe as town or likely town, so I have doubts that they went at each other on thread at this time.  however, darthe clearly had me confused so ??? I still don't like that Verb didn't appear to be trying to solve AT ALL. 

 

 

Why is her vote NAI?

 

lol on the vig comment.  I had darthe town too, but he didn't even try to pocket me, I was just flat out wrong.

 

Like I said above, for me it depends on when he put the vote on CassTurin and why, but I agree it's an easy vote to sit on.  Especially with his "defense" of Turin to get towncred towards the end of the day.

 

 

What does this mean?

 

 

Don't hate this. Although I would like explanation on how you have completely cleared DPR?

 

 

Agreed. 

 

 

 

Uh, these posts are basically exactly what I wanted to say 🫠.

 

 

No-lynch for today, so far.  Personally, I want to see Turin's play on this role before I just hang it.  Half of my suspicion on Cass was lack of activity/involvement which is now hard to gauge because she asked to be replaced?  It's weird that you'd want to go at this position without taking that into account, imo. 

 

Didn't you say Hally had an obvious tell D2???  Why didn't you bring up about her tell in this post I quoted above???

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Bolded: Why would Darthe not actively try to pocket/link himself with you?

 

Those quoted posts from me were good pocketing though. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Official Vote Count

 

HALLIA - 3 (Seph, DPR, Verbal)

KEY - 1 (CassTurin)

 

Not Voting: Dice, Gudrean, Hallia, Key, Zander

 

5 votes to Lynch

 

This is a Hybrid Hammer/Deadline Game

 

Day 2 ends 10pm BST on Wednesday 9th April

 

Day 2 Timer

https://stagetimer.io/r/UVDHPDFH/

Edited April 8 by Ithillian Turambar

[Ithillian Turambar]

I do not like people trying to 'game' me.

 

This is not a puzzle to be solved. It is a Mafia Game.

 

Do not test me. Final warning.

Edited April 8 by Ithillian Turambar

[Verbal32]

  On 4/8/2025 at 6:03 AM, Turin Turambar said:

If you want to twist it that way, fine. The fact is that everyone in the game has seen the benefits for town of doing so except you, Hallia ( who is about to no longer be an issue), and imo Verb with his lawyering lawyer that lawyers response.

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What exactly are you saying here?  I don't understand the bold.

 

 

 

  On 4/8/2025 at 10:33 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Shhhhhh, it will hopefully make sense soon.  

I didn't say I was redirected.  I said I might have been. But I did try to send a message to Key because  that other guy (TURIN) thought she was town. Key didn't get the message.  I think Seph did based on his posts today. I'm waiting to have him confirm. So I am pretty confident that one of my actions was redirected. The other one will become apparent when Hallia flips. If she's town, both actions redirected.  If she's mafia, only one. 

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How do you know this?

[keyholder21]

  On 4/8/2025 at 10:33 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Shhhhhh, it will hopefully make sense soon.  

I didn't say I was redirected.  I said I might have been. But I did try to send a message to Key because  that other guy (TURIN) thought she was town. Key didn't get the message.  I think Seph did based on his posts today. I'm waiting to have him confirm. So I am pretty confident that one of my actions was redirected. The other one will become apparent when Hallia flips. If she's town, both actions redirected.  If she's mafia, only one. 

 

You wanna vote Hallia? I can let you and it won't bother Zander ( I think). 

 

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OMG, Turin, I did get the message.  I was trying to be subtle, because I didn't want to out town powers on Day 2, but you weren't even picking up on the clues you freaking asked for. See bold for clues below.

 

  On 4/6/2025 at 9:14 PM, keyholder21 said:

LOL, not usually how night goes but awesome.   

 

I definitely should not have been relying on old meta, maybe I should erase myself from the narrative today 🙃.

 

 

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  On 4/7/2025 at 6:53 PM, keyholder21 said:

@Turin Turambar - Out of everything I have said this game, you are basing your thinking on one coincidental timing?  Burn me, I've written palaces of posts, but that's enough to override your feeling of me that's been town ALL game???  I find this whiplash turnaround sus. 

 

Explain how Hally's flip relates to me in your eyes?

 

@Zander? - No, according to DPR he (DPR) hasn't been linking us.  Although, imo, he has. I also think DPR putting Hally at L-1 when we have like 1.5 days to discuss is suspicious, even though, tbf, I also think she's wolfy. 

 

@seph - I want to know what put DPR firmly in your town camp.

 

I have doubts that a 3rd party exists in an 11 player game, personally 🤷‍♀️. 

 

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  On 4/7/2025 at 11:11 PM, keyholder21 said:

 

I think this is a good point. And hey, it's not about me and Hallia! 😉 :p. 

 

Okay, I get the message that you think I'm not town, but I am.  I already expressed a mea culpa for thinking he was town. If I need to be, I will lay down my life if it sets town free.

 

 

She did, but barely.  I can go into more detail if you want after I get home from Scouts, but in all of her posts the only person she really makes a true read about is Turin1.0.  She did say a few times she thought he was town.

 

She does state how she feels about some folks:

(early game) Turin, maybe Seph re: “a little bit better”

(late game) Turin, DPR, Verb, Cass

 

She never mentions a read of any sort on me, or darthe - unless you want to count the minor sus at darthe for the pre-reveal thing.  Yes, I realize how that makes me look.

 

 

This is how I feel about replacements too, FWIW. 

 

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CassTurin sent me a message last night as TOWN INFORMANT that he was peeking Hallia. There, happy @Turin Turambar???

[Gudrean]

@Turin Turambar Is your change of heart wrt Key due to your new position as CassTurin?  Thx

also what does Ithi mean by people trying to "game" her? or who does she mean?

[Gudrean]

ok nvmd after Key's post above.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 4/8/2025 at 12:43 PM, Ithillian Turambar said:

I do not like people trying to 'game' me.

 

This is not a puzzle to be solved. It is a Mafia Game.

 

Do not test me. Final warning.

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My deepest apologies. I wasn't trying to induce a mass claim but I see how easily it could be perceived that way and I accept full responsibility for whatever damage I've done to everyone enjoying the game. 

I am truly sorry. I hereby swear myself off any speculation in thread. I don't think I can keep it out of my brain but it won't be in the game anymore.  Any game.

 

again, so sorry for this, Especially to you Ithi.