Wheel of Time Season 3 - Full Season Discussion

[expat]

  On 3/20/2025 at 1:55 AM, Mailman said:

I don't find the idea of a ter'angreal that could facilitate travel incredibly surprising. It's the consequences of said item that are the issue. If you have access to such an item it alters the world as it's value is immense.

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As stated before, the slippery slope argument about traveling only works if the mechanisms are easy and fast to use.  Place enough restrictions on it use, as I tried to do with my proposed limitations, and it changes from an item of immense value to a magical toy.  If you think my proposed limitations were too modest then invent more stringent ones. I don't know why you insist on taking the anti-show premise that it must be world breaking when it's just as easy to decide that its mechanics limit it to a magical toy and enjoy the scene as written.  It's much more enjoyable to consider my glass half-full instead of half-empty, especially when both beliefs take that same amount of effort.

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 4:52 AM, expat said:

You have to demonstrate that they compromised the worldbuilding with this scene.  The books had Ter'angreals which had similar physical effects, so that part was in line with the established book worldbuilding.  You then introduced a slippery slope argument that this Ter'angreal could lead to unrestricted traveling.  I pulled some limitations out of my ass to show that there could be a somewhat plausible explanation that the slippery slope argument doesn't hold water which is enough for me not to get too worked up about the logic of the concept. 

 

I agree with you that the showrunners didn't give the mechanics of the scene deep thought.  They wanted something cool and theatrical.  However, that doesn't mean that the scene is inherently wrong or worldview breaking.

 

When I watch a TV series, it's because I want to like it.  To achieve this, I'm usually willing to give the showrunners the benefit of the doubt and take the most generous plausible interpretation of their logic. Under these circumstances, I don't think this scene compromises the book's worldbuilding.

 

 

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Well not exactly the book has no ter'angreal that allows travel within Randland in the same manner as travelling. I assume this is because of the need to either know the place of departure or destination and is also why I believe that the show version would require a possible anchor at one end or the other. Portal stones are actually close but those I think are part of a closed loop and have some of the multiworld stuff going on with them. Again simply finding something that could explain it from in book does not lessen the horrible misuse. None of the current Aes Sedai had the power to use them either.

 

Redstone doorways take you to a different world so are a different thing entirely.

 

The fact that there are 2 access points linking to 1 anchor point provides the possibility that you could potentially have 3 distinct locations to travel too. Imagine just from an information perspective the incredible advantage of being able to get todays spy information from Tear and Cairhein while remaining in TV. Even just one point is an incredible advantage not too be wasted on a hook up pad.

[TheBlueStuff96]

I just watched Season 3 Episode 4. Wow. Just … wow. You know, since season 1, I’ve been comparing the show to the book. At times happy, or disappointed, or confused with thier interpretation of the events of the book we all love. For the first time, episode 4 just made my mind blank: no comparisons. I just watched and was so immersed and pulled into it. It’s  different to what happened in the book but it’s so well done, so intimate and psychedelic… Jeezuz that was such an experience to watch. I think I’m going to re-read the Rhudien arc of the books again just to relive that moment. 

[Samt]

  On 3/20/2025 at 5:06 AM, expat said:

As stated before, the slippery slope argument about traveling only works if the mechanisms are easy and fast to use.  Place enough restrictions on it use, as I tried to do with my proposed limitations, and it changes from an item of immense value to a magical toy.  If you think my proposed limitations were too modest then invent more stringent ones. I don't know why you insist on taking the anti-show premise that it must be world breaking when it's just as easy to decide that its mechanics limit it to a magical toy and enjoy the scene as written.  It's much more enjoyable to consider my glass half-full instead of half-empty, especially when both beliefs take that same amount of effort.

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You don’t even need to go slippery slope on this one.  If this is just a fixed portal between a specific room in the white tower and a particular hut in Tear, that is already an immensely powerful resource in the context of Randland.  Those two places are weeks of travel apart and both important centers of the world.  The transfer of information alone would be valuable, not to mention that various other important journeys would be shortened as well.  
 

What restrictions do you think would make that not useful? Yes, it’s more useful if you can move it and change targets, etc.  But it’s still pretty useful in its most basic form.

[Sabio]

A few questions.

 

What happened to Thom and I know I've tried to purge the last episode of Season 2 from my memory but what happened to Mat's dagger?  Finally does anyone else find it odd Mat was allowed to keep the horn and so casually walk about with it.  Moiriane allowed that?   It took someone that long to tell Mat to stop it?

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 10:28 PM, Samt said:

You don’t even need to go slippery slope on this one.  If this is just a fixed portal between a specific room in the white tower and a particular hut in Tear, that is already an immensely powerful resource in the context of Randland.  Those two places are weeks of travel apart and both important centers of the world.  The transfer of information alone would be valuable, not to mention that various other important journeys would be shortened as well.  
 

What restrictions do you think would make that not useful? Yes, it’s more useful if you can move it and change targets, etc.  But it’s still pretty useful in its most basic form.

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We are also engaging in wish fulfilment to protect the show. We are deliberately trying to make the item as useless and difficult as possible. Most people when they are making something attempt to make it as good and useful as possible rather than the opposite.

[Figs and Mice]

  On 3/14/2025 at 3:29 AM, Sabio said:

Season 3 so far is the best season.  Still some head scratching moments and a few grrr issues.  But they are using the time a lot better and the casting is good, a few of the really heavy accents are a bit distracting.  I do think Min is being wasted but I loved her vision of Mat.

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Bit of a low bar to clear 🙂   But yes , I do reckon it is picking up a lot - despite , as DreadLord31 said above , having plenty of details we book purists can nit pick if we wish.  So the only things I would really nit pick about the first three episodes are : the Morgase out-of-character brutality on her ascension to the throne (I presume that was intended to be actual history and not Gaebril messing with our memories !)  ; and the rather unnecessarily violent arrival of the Blacks into Tanchico : both strike me as "shock spectacles" which make little sense and add nothing to the plot...

 

For all they are shuffling the order of events about , they do seem to be moving closer to the main book themes. The dark characters are all good (getting more prominence than they did on the page , which is fine). It has meant Liandrin and Lanfear have arguably taken a lot of the focus off our heroes so far but again that is OK as long as they handle all the main arcs properly over succeeding episodes. And liking Faile's arrival (Mandarb joke and all )

 

But I am still missing Thom  !

[Figs and Mice]

And looking back to that incident in series one (since it seems to have rather taken over this thread 🙂)

 

I had more or less forgotten about it (the FFH) - like a lot of the stuff in those underwhelming early episodes. Didn't seem to lead anywhere : but of course it does raise questions about the availability of "magical" means of travel - all of which had more or less been lost to the world at this point in time. Which is probably why it was subsequently " forgotten about"  in the show too : the writers realised themselves that it hadn't really been properly thought out in the first place and was best ignored going forward.  Just put it down to bad writing and move on , eh  ?

[Sabio]

  On 3/21/2025 at 7:22 AM, Figs and Mice said:

Bit of a low bar to clear 🙂   But yes , I do reckon it is picking up a lot - despite , as DreadLord31 said above , having plenty of details we book purists can nit pick if we wish.  So the only things I would really nit pick about the first three episodes are : the Morgase out-of-character brutality on her ascension to the throne (I presume that was intended to be actual history and not Gaebril messing with our memories !)  ; and the rather unnecessarily violent arrival of the Blacks into Tanchico : both strike me as "shock spectacles" which make little sense and add nothing to the plot...

 

For all they are shuffling the order of events about , they do seem to be moving closer to the main book themes. The dark characters are all good (getting more prominence than they did on the page , which is fine). It has meant Liandrin and Lanfear have arguably taken a lot of the focus off our heroes so far but again that is OK as long as they handle all the main arcs properly over succeeding episodes. And liking Faile's arrival (Mandarb joke and all )

 

But I am still missing Thom  !

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I remember in season 1 BS saying he had to talk them out of making everything super dark like GOT, they were going to have the tinkers be this dark brooding group.  The Morgase brutal throne taking and the murder wedding to me is trying to make the series more brutal and dark like GOT.  I don't mind the Morgase scene, but it was clear what they have been influenced by.

 

I love them adding more to Liandrin etc, but my biggest fear is with such limited time what is going to be lost or sped up to accommodate the extra time spent on others.  We are already down to 4 episodes left in the season.  I'm guessing if there is a season 4 (have they confirmed another season?) it will cover book 4 and 5.  

[Irvyne]

I think most of Book 4 will be covered this season.

I'm hopeful once Rand and co. are finished in the Waste, they'll head back to Tear and have the taking of Callandor as the finale.

Having finished off Ishamael by... y'know, taking three slow steps towards him and stabbing him in the belly... I wonder if they might have Rand fighting Rahvin there instead.

If / when Season 4 comes, I can see them combining Book 5 and 6. Possibly even squeeze in some of Book 7.

Getting into the "slog" phase of the story...

[Agitel]

I don't think we're doing any of Book 5 this season or revisiting Book3 plot points. In addition to the rest of Rand's arc, we still have Perrin, we still have Elayne and Nynaeve (and Mat) in Tanchico. And I expect to see Mat and the red door, too. We already had Min's vision of him hanging from the red door. And then the rest of Rand's book arc (which will probably be simplified).

 

I expect we'll see Book 5 events around Cairhien transposed to Tear next season, and bring back some Book 3 plot points. 

Edited yesterday at 12:46 PM by Agitel

[Turin Turambar]

I think some people want to assume they are trying to be edgy for views. I can see the Liandrin we have in the show, being driven to take over that building in order to complete the ritual for her beloved son by any means necessary. Then seeing another helpless young girl being married into a life she didn't appear to want just setting her off. Once she killed the man, no witnesses applies. The BA sisters aren't going to hold back once given an order by their leader.

Context might help explain Morgase's actions. Also she is demonstrated in the books as being pragmatic and somewhat morally flexible. For context this would be after Elaida had her foretelling regarding "the royal house of Andor". She wrongly assumes its about her or Elayne and is even more driven to secure the throne. I'm not sure it would be a given, but I think it isn't the stretch some people are making it out to be.

[Mirefox]

Do we know if Bryne is going to be in this show?  They dropped his name but we haven’t seen him.  I missed his presence in the Matt/Trakand fight.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 3/21/2025 at 4:58 PM, Mirefox said:

Do we know if Bryne is going to be in this show?  They dropped his name but we haven’t seen him.  I missed his presence in the Matt/Trakand fight.

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Brine wasn't there. That was the warder trainer drill seargant guy. I forgot his name though. He tells the story of Joram losing a fight to a farmer with a stick.

[Mirefox]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:13 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Brine wasn't there. That was the warder trainer drill seargant guy. I forgot his name though. He tells the story of Joram losing a fight to a farmer with a stick.

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It’s weird that I remembered him as being there.

 

Either way, do we know if he’s going to be in the show?

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:19 PM, Mirefox said:

Either way, do we know if he’s going to be in the show?

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No.

[Turin Turambar]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:19 PM, Mirefox said:

It’s weird that I remembered him as being there.

 

Either way, do we know if he’s going to be in the show?

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I don't expect him to be in it. They haven't said either way though.

[Mailman]

  On 3/21/2025 at 1:00 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I think some people want to assume they are trying to be edgy for views. I can see the Liandrin we have in the show, being driven to take over that building in order to complete the ritual for her beloved son by any means necessary. Then seeing another helpless young girl being married into a life she didn't appear to want just setting her off. Once she killed the man, no witnesses applies. The BA sisters aren't going to hold back once given an order by their leader.

Context might help explain Morgase's actions. Also she is demonstrated in the books as being pragmatic and somewhat morally flexible. For context this would be after Elaida had her foretelling regarding "the royal house of Andor". She wrongly assumes its about her or Elayne and is even more driven to secure the throne. I'm not sure it would be a given, but I think it isn't the stretch some people are making it out to be.

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But Liandrin happily killed all the other women present, despite if as you claim she did it to save a girl from being forced into a marriage she did not want, that a number of them were probably in the same situation.

 

Morgase morally flexible? The woman who thought to kill herself to stop her being used against Elayne. To the best of my knowledge Elaidia kept that foretelling a secret or maybe only told one person who I am fairly certain was not Morgase.

[KakitaOCU]

  On 3/21/2025 at 8:49 AM, Sabio said:

The Morgase brutal throne taking and the murder wedding to me is trying to make the series more brutal and dark like GOT.  I don't mind the Morgase scene, but it was clear what they have been influenced by.

 

I love them adding more to Liandrin etc, but my biggest fear is with such limited time what is going to be lost or sped up to accommodate the extra time spent on others.  We are already down to 4 episodes left in the season.  I'm guessing if there is a season 4 (have they confirmed another season?) it will cover book 4 and 5.  

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I think they're shownig how Harsh Morgase was and then will be able to use it as a contrast to a similar book event with Elayne where she shows a more even hand.

For book layout, obviously I'm speculating but I imagine this is going to be largely book 4 + the Stone.  I think we'll see Mogedhien best Nynaeve and set up a rivalry, I think we're going to stick Sammael in the Stone to either lose to Rand/Moraine or lose and escape depending on if they feel the war with Illidan is worth doing.   

I think we'll see a rush of Book 6 Egwene and book 5 stuff in season 4 culimating in the freeing of Andor from Rahvin.

What I'm curious about is Asmodean.  Because he's such a contradiction in that his presence and story is VERY important to justify Rand's competency as a Channeler...  But he only really has one book of relevance and then gone which makes him VERY easy to cut.  Maybe Rand Captures Sammael?  That'd be interesting.

[Mailman]

  22 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

I think they're shownig how Harsh Morgase was and then will be able to use it as a contrast to a similar book event with Elayne where she shows a more even hand.

For book layout, obviously I'm speculating but I imagine this is going to be largely book 4 + the Stone.  I think we'll see Mogedhien best Nynaeve and set up a rivalry, I think we're going to stick Sammael in the Stone to either lose to Rand/Moraine or lose and escape depending on if they feel the war with Illidan is worth doing.   

I think we'll see a rush of Book 6 Egwene and book 5 stuff in season 4 culimating in the freeing of Andor from Rahvin.

What I'm curious about is Asmodean.  Because he's such a contradiction in that his presence and story is VERY important to justify Rand's competency as a Channeler...  But he only really has one book of relevance and then gone which makes him VERY easy to cut.  Maybe Rand Captures Sammael?  That'd be interesting.

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Capturing Rahvin makes more sense from a book view. Demandred and Sammael hated LTT with a bone deep passion and they transferred that entire to Rand and considering we saw Sammael's scar it feels like that being kept is a strong possibility and that makes them ever agreeing to help him unlikely no matter the pressure applied. Rahvin and Asmo were enemies but not on the same personal hatred level as the others.

 

Could we perhaps see a back firing compulsion weave like what occurred with Graendal as the means of capturing Rahvin?

Edited 21 hours ago by Mailman

[KakitaOCU]

  22 hours ago, Mailman said:

Capturing Rahvin makes more sense from a book view. Demandred and Sammael hated LTT with a bone deep passion and they transferred that entire to Rand and considering we saw Sammael's scar it feels like that being kept is a strong possibility and that makes them ever agreeing to help him unlikely no matter the pressure applied. Rahvin and Asmo were enemies but not on the same personal hatred level as the others.

 

Could we perhaps see a back firing compulsion weave like what occurred with Graendal as the means of capturing Rahvin?

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Despite it countering my initial throw out speculation, yeah, I actually really like the idea of Rahvin Asmodean and Belial being fused together.  He's already playing all sides and tired of infighting, falling in with Rand would easily stem from that combined with him being outmatched.  Or... To twist it in a more sinister way.  What if he, on the verge of defeat, compels Rand to know him as his trusted advisor who's helping him against the Shadow?  Maybe even tie him in with Mazrim Taim (though we have name dropped Taim so I assume we'll get him as himself or Taimandred.)

[Sabio]

There is still one unidentified forsaken isn't there?  

[DigificWriter]

  21 hours ago, Sabio said:

There is still one unidentified forsaken isn't there?  

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Yes, and he is most likely Asmodean.

[Sabio]

I wonder if Samm is also going to double as Dem.  Both are good at war so seems like easy to combine.

[KakitaOCU]

  21 hours ago, Sabio said:

I wonder if Samm is also going to double as Dem.  Both are good at war so seems like easy to combine.

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It'd make plenty of sense.  He fails in Illidan, runs, disappears, no one knows where he is, then boom, Shara.

But part of me REALLY wants them to just do Taimdandred ever since we found out that was actually the plan before we all guessed to quick.