S3E3:Seeds of Shadow

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/18/2025 at 9:42 PM, Mailman said:

Rand would have sat in a tavern in the middle of Tar Valon and yelled the word Dragon.

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Rand does not do that in the show. Matt does. And maybe my memory isn’t great but early books Matt was pretty insufferably dumb. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/19/2025 at 12:29 AM, DreadLord31 said:

Rand does not do that in the show. Matt does. And maybe my memory isn’t great but early books Matt was pretty insufferably dumb. 

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Sorry it was Mat that yelled it but Rand sat there like nothing had happened. A male channeler sitting in the heart of Aes Sedai power being called the Dragon and he just sits there grinning.

[DreadLord31]

  On 3/19/2025 at 12:32 AM, Mailman said:

Sorry it was Mat that yelled it but Rand sat there like nothing had happened. A male channeler sitting in the heart of Aes Sedai power being called the Dragon and he just sits there grinning.

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They do address in Ep3 in the Matt/Siuan exchange that Matt was being dumb and putting himself in massive danger… 

 

But it’s kind of a… fruitless cycle/book perspective. Because as I said several posts back… book Rand and the Aiel would never have ever been in TV in the first place… 

 

Though I did just see the EDN reaction and they too kind of noted “Didn’t Moiraine just tell them to hide. What are they doing?” type of reaction. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:40 AM by DreadLord31

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

  On 3/18/2025 at 5:40 AM, Mailman said:

The tower having a strange training ground inside and the princes just banging novices.

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To me this makes a lot more sense than the book obsession with keeping novices / accepted away from men.  These are grown women (admission at 14-16 and a 10 year + training period other than for those of exceptional ability) and the majority of them will never have the strength to test out as Aes Sedai - most will be expected to leave the tower and not openly practice channeling, so a fully cloistered training regime makes little sense.  The most gifted would be expected to concentrate on channeling, the others less so.

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/19/2025 at 12:29 AM, DreadLord31 said:

Rand does not do that in the show. Matt does. And maybe my memory isn’t great but early books Matt was pretty insufferably dumb. 

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Later books Mat was not what i would describe as a coolly rational genius..

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/19/2025 at 1:52 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

To me this makes a lot more sense than the book obsession with keeping novices / accepted away from men.  These are grown women (admission at 14-16 and a 10 year + training period other than for those of exceptional ability) and the majority of them will never have the strength to test out as Aes Sedai - most will be expected to leave the tower and not openly practice channeling, so a fully cloistered training regime makes little sense.  The most gifted would be expected to concentrate on channeling, the others less so.

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  Reveal hidden contents

Except that the WT believed every woman who could channel, from the Amyrlin to a novice who could light a candle unaided would be needed for the Last Battle (which turns out to be close to true). add in the whole "Control it or it's going to kill you" and the "Browns think we're culling the ability to channel" and there is every reason to make sure every possible channeler made it through at least basic training

 

Also - baby trapping a Prince is as much of a thing in the Westlands as it is in the West LA. And that would be embarrassing to the tower that they couldn't control their novices.

Spoiled, because i can't remember the book spoiler position on this board.

[szilard]

  On 3/19/2025 at 1:52 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

To me this makes a lot more sense than the book obsession with keeping novices / accepted away from men.  These are grown women (admission at 14-16 and a 10 year + training period other than for those of exceptional ability) and the majority of them will never have the strength to test out as Aes Sedai - most will be expected to leave the tower and not openly practice channeling, so a fully cloistered training regime makes little sense.  The most gifted would be expected to concentrate on channeling, the others less so.

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Totally agree! The books are so badly written, so we should be very grateful the greatest showrunner got this project which became the best television series ever! Hopefully there will be a sex scene or two! or three! between Rand and Mat, because their friendship as depicted in the books is so dated!

[Storeebooq]

  On 3/18/2025 at 7:09 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I don't think the BA is going to worry about it. I also expect Tanchico (especially this area) is a place where people know how to not question certain things.

 

I don't remember Graendahl giving verbal instructions when using compulsion.  I also think it was kinda the easiest way to express it in the books. If they say what they're doing then we know what they're doing. I also thought Gaebril might have. Related some sort of construct of magic to implant the thought of him being the Prince Consort. Sort of like the inverse of "no one knows Peter Parker is Spiderman". These are supposed to be some of the most skilled chanellers of the most magicy time in this world's history. I kinda think they should be capable of amazing things.

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if I recall correctly, when Graendahl used compulsion on folks, she was mostly making them absolutely adore and worship her. That didn't really require instruction. But, other times when we see folks being given compulsion and then carrying out instructions, they were verbally given. It was pretty consistent in the books, though sometimes it seemed to be inferred off-screen. 

 

I wouldn't put it past someone's brain to "fill in the gaps" after being given compulsion and carry out acts that they feel would please their master....but in the show, someone like Leane not having known Gabril's name and rank and suddenly recall it is very different from how it would have worked in the books. So, I think over-all they changed how it works in the show, which I think makes sense for a TV adaptation. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/18/2025 at 7:09 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I don't think the BA is going to worry about it. I also expect Tanchico (especially this area) is a place where people know how to not question certain things.

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That might work for some of the people. But if your son, daughter, or parents had been invited to the wedding or your best friend even maybe those people are going to want to know what happened pretty much regardless or if not them directly they will go to whatever authorities are available.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/19/2025 at 10:51 PM, Mailman said:

they will go to whatever authorities are available.

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Are there any such authorities? Does Liandrin have any need to worry about them? I suspect we may get answers to these questions. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/19/2025 at 11:05 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Are there any such authorities? Does Liandrin have any need to worry about them? I suspect we may get answers to these questions. 

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I'm not sure but Tanchico had a ruler in the books and most rulers have some form of law enforcement be it efficient or corrupt. It's more those close to the 30 or 40 dead that i question not enquiring what happened. There did not appear to be any children present I think which is a bit weird but at least some of those present would have left children with people to be looked after you would think those people are going to try and return the kids. If there were kids i am assuming that the blacks did not kill them Liandrin freed the bride after all. dumping a load of mind washed kids out would cause question.

 

It's all going to be a bit messy is all, not saying that the black sisters cannot deal with it but it is going to cause issues.

Edited Wednesday at 11:21 PM by Mailman

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/19/2025 at 11:17 PM, Mailman said:

I'm not sure but Tanchico had a ruler in the books and most rulers have some form of law enforcement be it efficient or corrupt. It's more those close to the 30 or 40 dead that i question not enquiring what happened. There did not appear to be any children present I think which is a bit weird but at least some of those present would have left children with people to be looked after you would think those people are going to try and return the kids. If there were kids i am assuming that the blacks did not kill them Liandrin freed the bride after all. dumping a load of mind washed kids out would cause question.

 

It's all going to be a bit messy is all, not saying that the black sisters cannot deal with it but it is going to cause issues.

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As I mentioned before. These are Aes Sedai.

Aes Sedai can't lie.

Anyone that comes knocking, will be given a story about where the people went. Those that question to much will be compusled or disappeared.

 

The "Authorities" aren't going to know anything, because they don't care about the people in the slums. The BA have already buried the hatchet by disposing of every person person in that room. The only people they have to fear, is a literal witch hunt from the masses uprising against them. Which isn't going to happen when anyone that comes up to that building just walks away believing a story about where the people at the wedding ran off to.

 

 

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:36 AM, SinisterDeath said:

As I mentioned before. These are Aes Sedai.

Aes Sedai can't lie.

Anyone that comes knocking, will be given a story about where the people went. Those that question to much will be compusled or disappeared.

 

The "Authorities" aren't going to know anything, because they don't care about the people in the slums. The BA have already buried the hatchet by disposing of every person person in that room. The only people they have to fear, is a literal witch hunt from the masses uprising against them. Which isn't going to happen when anyone that comes up to that building just walks away believing a story about where the people at the wedding ran off to.

 

 

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I did say it is not impossible for the blacks to make it work

 

I'm not sure the blacks have the ability to use compulsion the ability they use on the bride sounded like purely a memory wipe. If they could use compulsion surely they would have used it on the bride.

 

If you are memory wiping and killing every person that comes calling it will just raise more questions.

 

Is it really a massive stretch to imagine in randland a witch hunt scenario when a group of 7 women move into a house and 30 to 40 people suddenly disappear from the area and who were together in that house. 

Edited Thursday at 01:00 AM by Mailman

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/20/2025 at 1:00 AM, Mailman said:

I'm not sure the blacks have the ability to use compulsion the ability they use on the bride sounded like purely a memory wipe. If they could use compulsion surely they would have used it on the bride.

 

If you are memory wiping and killing every person that comes calling it will just raise more questions.

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Am I the only one that noticed Moghedien just standing around posing as a serving lady there?

 

Yeah, they're not going to have any issues.

 

  

  On 3/20/2025 at 1:00 AM, Mailman said:

Is it really a massive stretch to imagine in randland a witch hunt scenario when a group of 7 women move into a house and 30 to 40 people suddenly disappear from the area and who were together in that house. 

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Is it a stretch? No.

But I'm giving you answers on how it can easily work, given the capabilities they all have.

As of this minute, we don't even know what Ter'Angrael's they have, can do. 

 

I think you're also stretching how important those guests in that random slum in Tanchico are, and if anyone would really care enough about their disappearance to put out a witch hunt for those guys. Particularly when you're dealing with the Black Ajah, from a variety of Ajahs', who already have an entire freaking network of spies, and contacts in the area... not to mention Gold coin to grease palms.

 

 

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 2:49 AM, SinisterDeath said:

Am I the only one that noticed Moghedien just standing around posing as a serving lady there?

 

Yeah, they're not going to have any issues.

 

  

Is it a stretch? No.

But I'm giving you answers on how it can easily work, given the capabilities they all have.

As of this minute, we don't even know what Ter'Angrael's they have, can do. 

 

I think you're also stretching how important those guests in that random slum in Tanchico are, and if anyone would really care enough about their disappearance to put out a witch hunt for those guys. Particularly when you're dealing with the Black Ajah, from a variety of Ajahs', who already have an entire freaking network of spies, and contacts in the area... not to mention Gold coin to grease palms.

 

 

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If you did not notice Moggy you did not have the screen on. The black ajah has no idea she is a forsaken and thus could not count on her helping them out.

 

Stretching how important they are?

Even criminals and low lives have friends and family and acquaintances people who they owe money too.

 

And honestly you have zero idea how important those guests are absolutely none, for all we know one of them could be dating someone important and they brought them as there plus one. There could be an important gang member or guild leader there we have no idea, you have no idea. I assume that there was someone performing the marriage ceremony. They are most likely just general folks with varying but because of the number extensive link to the local community.

 

You are also claiming it is an area where 30+ people can disappear without question yet the Ajah spy network is deeply embedded in it. If the Ajah network is embedded there the blacks cover is 1 pigeon away from being blown by your reckoning. Because if they are there 30 people dissapearing and 7 women moving in would probably be the biggest information just about ever there and that is if they have not received rough description of the hunted.

Edited Thursday at 04:53 AM by Mailman

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 4:35 AM, Mailman said:

If you did not notice Moggy you did not have the screen on.

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That was a joke…

 

  On 3/20/2025 at 4:35 AM, Mailman said:

And honestly you have zero idea how important those guests are

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Neither do you. 

 

  On 3/20/2025 at 4:35 AM, Mailman said:

yet the Ajah spy network is deeply embedded in it. If the Ajah network is embedded there the blacks cover is 1 pigeon away from being blown by your reckoning.

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Maybe so. Or maybe that network would be dissuaded from sending the pigeon because an Aes Sedai (who can’t lie) told them it was being handled. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:21 PM, Elder_Haman said:

That was a joke…

 

Neither do you. 

 

Maybe so. Or maybe that network would be dissuaded from sending the pigeon because an Aes Sedai (who can’t lie) told them it was being handled. 

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That did not feel like a joke

 

Thats my point.

 

That assumes that they know who the spies are which is by no means a certainty.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:26 PM, Mailman said:

That did not feel like a joke

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It clearly was. Obviously Moggy will protect her lair. 
 

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:26 PM, Mailman said:

That assumes that they know who the spies are which is by no means a certainty.

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No it doesn’t. It assumes the black has a plan for handling people who come snooping. 

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:29 PM, Elder_Haman said:

It clearly was. Obviously Moggy will protect her lair. 
 

No it doesn’t. It assumes the black has a plan for handling people who come snooping. 

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protecting her lair does not mean protecting the blacks 

 

the blacks "plan" cannot encompass moggy 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:40 PM, Mailman said:

protecting her lair does not mean protecting the blacks 

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It might. 

 

  On 3/20/2025 at 12:40 PM, Mailman said:

the blacks "plan" cannot encompass moggy 

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Nor would it need to. 

[Turin Turambar]

My take was that it looked like a shady part of town. Say you are a street level criminal in such a place and you find out that powerful unscrupulous people have massacred 30+ people. Do you want to confront them? Now you are a member of the town watch making low wages. The same question?

 

Or are you just gonna keep your head down and look to move?

[Kaleb]

  On 3/20/2025 at 2:29 PM, Turin Turambar said:

My take was that it looked like a shady part of town. Say you are a street level criminal in such a place and you find out that powerful unscrupulous people have massacred 30+ people. Do you want to confront them? Now you are a member of the town watch making low wages. The same question?

 

Or are you just gonna keep your head down and look to move?

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I don't believe there were any NOT shady parts of Tanchico. It's consistently described as on the brink of collapse into civil war, aside from being a widely-known hive of scum and villainy.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 3:19 PM, Kaleb said:

I don't believe there were any NOT shady parts of Tanchico. It's consistently described as on the brink of collapse into civil war, aside from being a widely-known hive of scum and villainy.

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Exactly. The idea that 30 people could be massacred at a wedding and nobody would care isn’t even far fetched in our real world. 

[DigificWriter]

Especially, as was previously noted, said wedding happened inside a private residence that is still likely owned, in some part, by one of those who came in and murdered all of the wedding attendees.

[Mailman]

  On 3/20/2025 at 3:25 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Exactly. The idea that 30 people could be massacred at a wedding and nobody would care isn’t even far fetched in our real world. 

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What world are you actually living in? The odds that you could kill 30 people in any community on earth and nobody would care is 0%.

 

@Kaleb @DigificWriter @Turin Turambar

 

The only question is could you do something about it. We have multiple reports in the books of people forming mobs and such when confronted by scenarios that are not one tenth extreme as 30 people disappearing.

 

The ownership of the house or the shady nature of the location is not going to matter to a son, daughter father or mother of one of the attendees. Are all of you telling me that if your son, daughter, mother or father suddenly disappeared that you would not care at all just because it was a shady part of town. This does not even include more casual acquaintances like best friends' people who work for you people you owe money to all of these have good reason to question what has happened.