S3E2:A Question of Crimson - Discussion

[SinisterDeath]

Season 3 - Episode 2: A Question of Crimson
Director: Ciaran Donnelly

Writers: Katherine B. McKenna

Runtime: 1 h 1 min

  Quote

Episode Description: A dangerous visitor comes to the White Tower. Perrin returns home. Rand and Egwene forge their own path under Moiraine’s watchful eye.

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Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E2:A Question of Crimson to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 2 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

[A Memory Of Why]

So i jumped straight to episode two because I'm to excited, and I have lots of thoughts..

 

The most negative thought, something that even though I grew up in the 90s I find beyond reason..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Screw Amazon and your stupid bloody adds, seriously stick them somewhere uncomfortable, unfortunate and unpleasant. Though they probably enjoy that, pricks!

 

1st add was the end of the scene where Perrin came out of the waygate, I rewound and found i missed about 5 seconds, which was just cool scenery and music but still!

 

2nd add seemed on point but.. 

 

3rd add I rewound into.. another 1.5min add.!

 

I have unpleasant words, very unpleasant 😤

 

Overall though I very much enjoyed this episode, surprisingly more than the 1st. Even the things that bugged me didn't bother me enough to overly complain about.

 

It's like this is the show i wanted 4 years ago, I could cry 😢 

[zacz1987]

How much time was meant to have passed between episode 1 and 2? I was confused how Alanna made it to Emond's Field quicker than Perrin when he took a Waygate.

 

I do feel the show revolves far too much around Tar Valon and the Aes Sedai. Sure they should be in the show but they should not be the main part.

Edited March 13 by zacz1987

[king of nowhere]

morgase is a lot more bloodthirsty in this version. i wonder how it will shape the future of the story. i expect her to be killed for real at the end of the season, though. perhaps it will give the wronged houses some stronger reasons to resist elayne during the succession.

and gaebril cannot be one of the foresaken, as siuan refers to him with familiarity, he's been prince consort for a time. maybe a foresaken will take his place.

 

i have to say, the weirdest part of the whole show is the different enforcement of discipline in the white tower. accepted that can leave the tower, novices that can take men in their rooms, talking to aes sedai with familiarity.... it's actually a much nicer environment.

makes it harder to believe that 20% of them swore to the shadow

[Skipp]

  On 3/13/2025 at 4:58 PM, king of nowhere said:

morgase is a lot more bloodthirsty in this version. i wonder how it will shape the future of the story. i expect her to be killed for real at the end of the season, though. perhaps it will give the wronged houses some stronger reasons to resist elayne during the succession.

and gaebril cannot be one of the foresaken, as siuan refers to him with familiarity, he's been prince consort for a time. maybe a foresaken will take his place.

 

i have to say, the weirdest part of the whole show is the different enforcement of discipline in the white tower. accepted that can leave the tower, novices that can take men in their rooms, talking to aes sedai with familiarity.... it's actually a much nicer environment.

makes it harder to believe that 20% of them swore to the shadow

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Yeah the cold open with Morgase SHOCKED me.  But I realize what they are trying to do and speed up to Elayne's arc.   The interesting thing about the scene wasn't that Morgase had the female family heads killed but that she had their own family kill them.  Very GoT and not super WoT but like I said I appreciate how they are condensing the arcs for TV.  Also loved Olivia Williams as Morgase she was excellent.

 

Yeah, the tower is much more relaxed in this turning of the wheel.  Keeping the Novices away from men because of the scare of pregnancy never made full sense since we know that the contraceptive tea exists in the world.  Although keeping them away from men just simply as a sign of control did make sense.

 

  On 3/13/2025 at 12:20 PM, zacz1987 said:

How much time was meant to have passed between episode 1 and 2? I was confused how Alanna made it to Emond's Field quicker than Perrin when he took a Waygate.

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I thought it was implied that Alanna and Maksim did take the Waygate, those were the tracks that Perrin saw.  As for their reason for being in the Two Rivers we'll just have to see.

[Sabio]

  On 3/13/2025 at 4:58 PM, king of nowhere said:

morgase is a lot more bloodthirsty in this version. i wonder how it will shape the future of the story. i expect her to be killed for real at the end of the season, though. perhaps it will give the wronged houses some stronger reasons to resist elayne during the succession.

and gaebril cannot be one of the foresaken, as siuan refers to him with familiarity, he's been prince consort for a time. maybe a foresaken will take his place.

 

i have to say, the weirdest part of the whole show is the different enforcement of discipline in the white tower. accepted that can leave the tower, novices that can take men in their rooms, talking to aes sedai with familiarity.... it's actually a much nicer environment.

makes it harder to believe that 20% of them swore to the shadow

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Morgase at the beginning, Felt way too Game of Thrones for me.   Egwene openly defying the Siuan seemed really odd. So much for tower structure and respect.  ALso Moraines hat is horrible.

Edited March 14 by Sabio

[Sabio]

  On 3/13/2025 at 5:53 PM, Skipp said:

Yeah the cold open with Morgase SHOCKED me.  But I realize what they are trying to do and speed up to Elayne's arc.   The interesting thing about the scene wasn't that Morgase had the female family heads killed but that she had their own family kill them.  Very GoT and not super WoT but like I said I appreciate how they are condensing the arcs for TV.  Also loved Olivia Williams as Morgase she was excellent.

 

Yeah, the tower is much more relaxed in this turning of the wheel.  Keeping the Novices away from men because of the scare of pregnancy never made full sense since we know that the contraceptive tea exists in the world.  Although keeping them away from men just simply as a sign of control did make sense.

 

 

I thought it was implied that Alanna and Maksim did take the Waygate, those were the tracks that Perrin saw.  As for their reason for being in the Two Rivers we'll just have to see.

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I think in one of the episodes it was said a month has passed.

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/13/2025 at 5:53 PM, Skipp said:

Yeah the cold open with Morgase SHOCKED me. 

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I wasn't shocked at all, although that might just be because Olivia Williams has a storied history of playing characters who are heroic but still do some pretty barbaric and ruthless things.

[Windigo]

  On 3/14/2025 at 3:33 AM, Sabio said:

I think in one of the episodes it was said a month has passed.

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A month on a boat was mentioned, we do not know how long they were in Falme before getting on the boat, obviously long enough to free any Damne left behind ( Ryma). 

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:22 AM, Sabio said:

Morgase at the beginning, Felt way too Game of Thrones for me.   Egwene openly defying the Siuan seemed really odd. So much for tower structure and respect.  ALso Moraines hat is horrible.

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Morgase was a bit brutal, I did not like that they had them swear and then their families killed them, better to have them killed and new family head swear? 
I do see the set up though, as now those families have real reasons to go against Elayne, not just some off screen actions while a forsaken is in control of things. 

Egwene openly defying the Siuan, this felt odd but not out of character, in the books they just defy behind their backs. The show is more opening showing Egwenes core and unbreakable strength, she has agency of her own much sooner, and after Falme, it makes sense that she will not let anyone keep her  down.

They have also changed it up enough that Accepted and even Novices are older, It is more like College and Grad students than a highschool boarding school. 

There is also the book cannon on hierarchy and power levels, it took the wonder girls forever to understand in the books, but I see them pushing this foreword in the show.

[Finnssss22]

They also casually dropped a massive reveal for show only folks dating back to the s1e7 cold open.

Let's see who has been really paying attention 😉

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:21 PM, Finnssss22 said:

They also casually dropped a massive reveal for show only folks dating back to the s1e7 cold open.

Let's see who has been really paying attention 😉

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I'd argue the assertion that dropping the name Tigraine reveals anything unless, like me, you're a Spoiled Show-Only person.

[Mirefox]

Observations while I watch:

 

1. Morgase looked good in the flashback but wasn’t one of her definining features a youthful look?  They aged her up too much for “present time.”  Elaina was good.  The killings seemed out of character.  Was Gaebril in the picture at the time?

 

2.  The casual use of waygates is troubling.  And what was that comment by Loial about being better than “all that channeling?”  Has he been traveling via channeling much?

 

3. I still like how weaving come from off screen, more like they are using threads already there than conjuring them by themselves.

 

4.  I liked seeing Rand doing katas with Lan but when Lan asks if he wants to talk about his distraction I cringed.  Not Lan.

 

5. Mat fighting Elayne’s brothers was such a great scene in the books.  I’m sad they skipped that, here.

 

 

[Finnssss22]

  Reveal hidden contents

Until you pause during the s1e7 cold open and the Xray pops up.

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:34 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

I'd argue the assertion that dropping the name Tigraine reveals anything unless, like me, you're a Spoiled Show-Only person.

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Edited March 14 by Finnssss22

[Mirefox]

  On 3/13/2025 at 8:27 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

So i jumped straight to episode two because I'm to excited, and I have lots of thoughts..

 

The most negative thought, something that even though I grew up in the 90s I find beyond reason..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Screw Amazon and your stupid bloody adds, seriously stick them somewhere uncomfortable, unfortunate and unpleasant. Though they probably enjoy that, pricks!

 

1st add was the end of the scene where Perrin came out of the waygate, I rewound and found i missed about 5 seconds, which was just cool scenery and music but still!

 

2nd add seemed on point but.. 

 

3rd add I rewound into.. another 1.5min add.!

 

I have unpleasant words, very unpleasant 😤

 

Overall though I very much enjoyed this episode, surprisingly more than the 1st. Even the things that bugged me didn't bother me enough to overly complain about.

 

It's like this is the show i wanted 4 years ago, I could cry 😢 

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Yes.  Your spoilers are the absolute worst.  Amazon is just shooting themselves in the foot.  Why use those in their own content?  (Yes, I know…$$$).

Edited March 14 by Mirefox

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:21 PM, Finnssss22 said:

They also casually dropped a massive reveal for show only folks dating back to the s1e7 cold open.

Let's see who has been really paying attention 😉

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I definitely caught this reference. I also went back to watch that cold opening to see if they ever name dropped her in in the cold opening (they did not), so only people who read the Xray, or her casting would know her character name. 😉 

 

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:34 PM, DigificWriter said:

I'd argue the assertion that dropping the name Tigraine reveals anything unless, like me, you're a Spoiled Show-Only person.

Expand  

Morgase literally said that they had a succession War because the last Queen's Daughter "Tigraine" ran off.

The implication here is that Rand is by Birth, Tigraine's Son.

[Finnssss22]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:41 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I definitely caught this reference. I also went back to watch that cold opening to see if they ever name dropped her in in the cold opening (they did not), so only people who read the Xray, or her casting would know her character name. 😉 

 

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Which I would argue is absolutely show only and I don't know many who don't pull up the Xray to help remember names.

I also fully expect more on this to come out next week.

Edited March 14 by Finnssss22

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:41 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I definitely caught this reference. I also went back to watch that cold opening to see if they ever name dropped her in in the cold opening (they did not), so only people who read the Xray, or her casting would know her character name. 😉 

 

Morgase literally said that they had a succession War because the last Queen's Daughter "Tigraine" ran off.

The implication here is that Rand is by Birth, Tigraine's Son.

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There's absolutely nothing onscreen from the Blood Snow to make Unspoiled Show-Only people connect it to the Tigraine name-drop (at least right now).

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:44 PM, Finnssss22 said:

Which I would argue is absolutely show only and I don't know many who don't pull up the Xray to help remember names.

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This could be considered a deep cut, for casual viewers, but the information is entirely there for people who have only ever watched the show and never picked up the books to discover. 

 

So I absolutely relish the idea of this "big reveal" for some "Youtuber" down the road going "wait a minute", going back pausing S1E7, seeing the x-ray and yelling out "mothers milk in a cup!".

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/14/2025 at 6:48 PM, DigificWriter said:

There's absolutely nothing onscreen from the Blood Snow to make Unspoiled Show-Only people connect it to the Tigraine name-drop (at least right now).

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Unspoiled Show-Only people who have seen Her name in the X-Ray, or her Casting as the actress as Rand's Mother, will 100% catch it. Others will miss it.

[Mirefox]

When Perrin, Loial, and the maidens enter EF, shouldn’t the ogier have freaked people out?  The town was recently ravaged by trollocs and continues to have a trolloc problem and a creature that someone from EF mistook for a trolloc (after having fought them and been chased by them) just strolls down the street and nobody reacts in terror?

[Sabio]

I try not to think about that, the same way it's best not to think about how no one seems to care Aiel are wandering the streets of Tar Valon.

[Mirefox]

There are some characters in this series that shouldn’t be portrayed as having casual sex and Galad is one of them.  Mat should not have heard that.

[Irvyne]

  On 3/14/2025 at 7:37 PM, Mirefox said:

When Perrin, Loial, and the maidens enter EF, shouldn’t the ogier have freaked people out?

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I guess the fact that in this version he's barely any taller than a human and from a distance could easily pass as one, means that he doesn't draw too much attention. 🤷‍♂️

[Irvyne]

  On 3/14/2025 at 8:22 PM, Mirefox said:

There are some characters in this series that shouldn’t be portrayed as having casual sex and Galad is one of them.  Mat should not have heard that.

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Yeah, I thought the exact same thing. I know they're trying to portray him as super-hot hyper-stud, but his character in the books was actually incredibly stuffy and serious. If he found out Gawyn was engaging in such activities, he would have given him a very stern talking to. Anyway. The show is determined to sex the story up, so it can be seen in the same light as Game of Thrones.

 

But overall, I'm happy to say that I have very little to complain about with Ep.2. A couple of niggles, but overall, I think it may possibly be the best episode so far. Even though the writers still want to change events to make the story theirs instead of Jordan's, I felt like Ep.2 was actually beginning to "feel" like Wheel of Time in some scenes. (Finally!)

 

I loved the journey back to the Two Rivers. (That scenery!!) 😍

 

I actually lolled at Mat a few times. Donal is fantastic. He's really beginning to feel like the Mat we know and love.

 

And even though the plot points have been rearranged, I really enjoyed seeing the Trakand family and Elaida finally introduced into the story. Looking forward to seeing more of them in the future.

 

Gaebril is interesting. According to the show's lore, the Forsaken were only released at the end of season 2. But Elayne treats Gaebril like a loving stepfather that she's known for years. That doesn't make sense. I'm going to guess that Rahvin has probably murdered the real Gaebril and is using some kind of glamour spell to appear in his likeness. Which works. I'm okay with that.

[Turin Turambar]

Rahvin has used compulsion in massive amounts on everyone when they first interact. It was the reason for Leane's pause when he entered the Hall. The weave was just taking effect. 

I originally thought that Gaebril was going to be killed and replaced by Rahvin, but they show that he is implanting memories into everyone ( maybe like an aura weave) so they accept him as if he had been there since forever.