S3 Predictions

[DreadLord31]

Alright. So we got two seasons in the bag & now we wait. We know we get at least one more season. What are they going to have in S3? Let the prophecies of DM roll… here’s mine: 

I’ll start with what I have high confidence we’ll see and then get into some wild speculation: 

 

1) Dain is going to the the Two Rivers with Whitecloaks for sure. And they’ve made him way more likeable. In fact, I might be on his side & be hoping he beats this version of Perrin?? 
 

2) we’re going to see a meeting of the Forsaken. They’ve set it up, got to deliver and give us: Sammael, Demandred, Rahvin, Graendal, Moggy, Lanfear, and Moridin [I think he’ll be played by Fares Fares] 

 

3) we’ll see the WT split/rebellion & Siuan/Leane stilled 

 

4) were going to see Rand train for once, maybe with Lan, and then go to the Aiel Waste & I think Tear too 

 

5) In S3 Nynaeve will get through her block

 

6) Elayne, Avi, Min, Egwene, Rand relationship drama will ensue

 

Now some wilder predictions:

 

1) Moiraine and Lanfear iconic scene will be part of the S3 finale

 

2) TvThom will be back when Elayne/Rand go to Camelyn & will somehow have a role with Mat. Rahvin plot will move up & he’ll be in Camelyn in power already. 
 

3) we will get Amys, Rhurac, Sevanna, Couladin, and … hm maybe like 3 other named important Aiel that I can’t remember their names at this hour. Maybe even Gaul. We’ll finally get a real Aiel man (unless since the show hates competent fighting men the waste is all maidens…) 

 

4) by season end Egwene will be rebel Aes Sedai leader & Nynaeve will fight Moggy.

 

 

 

[Mailman]

One early gut feeling I get is that 2 of the released male forsaken are going to basically have the demeanor of frat boys with lets just smash stuff approach. I think we have seen the best of the forsaken already in Ishy and Lanfear and it's going to be downhill from here into cartoon characters for them. 

[Jaysen Gore]

I think you're a season ahead of yourself, if not more. Most of what you describe will likely fall in seasons 4 and 5.

 

I expect S3 is built around 2 plots - Perrin and the Whitecloaks in the Two Rivers; and Rand and Egwene in the Waste.  I'm sure Nyn and Elayne go back to the Tower, but I don't know if we get Mat at Rhuidean or Mat with the girls. Season ends with the Al'car Dail reveal cliffhanger, and Abel / Nattie's redemptions in the Two Rivers. So we get your normal points 1, 2 and 4.

 

3- Is a major focus of season 4, not 3.  It gets set up in Season 3, but doesn't happen until season 4.

5 - I don't think this happens until season 6. Think about how that scene ends and everything that has to happen to get the emotional payoff for the two characters.

6 - nope.  the girls won't meet for seasons, and Elayne has to get back to the tower to set up her brothers and mother's advisor. 

 

wild assumptions

1 - nope, this is the season 4 finale, not season 3.

2 - We aren't getting Rahvin, so this isn't happening. Unless they use Sammael instead, but I don't think we're going to Camelyn.

3 - Add Sorilea, Bair, Gaul, the friendly male Aiel that Rand "disciplines", and Mat's female friend

 

4 - nope; that's season 6 finale, I think - the end of Nynaeve / Lan's character arcs, and the end of Egwene's political battle. Mixed with cleansing of the source. Secondary plot for season 6 is Faile's kidnapping

 

Season 5 is Siuan's journey, Salidar set up, the girls in Tanchico, and Rand and the Aiel in Cairhien, ending with the Corenne in Tanchico. Let's see Mat in pink bows. 

 

That leaves Logain setting up the Black Tower, the War at the White Tower, Perrin's Trial, and Mat / Tuon for Season 7

 

Season 8 covers the fall of the Black Tower, the healing of the White, Tower of Genji (if they do it), Veins of Gold, and Tarmon Gaidon.

 

They are going to gut the slog; there might be 3 episodes that come out of those 4 1/2 books.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Jaysen Gore

[Jaysen Gore]

29 minutes ago, Mailman said:

One early gut feeling I get is that 2 of the released male forsaken are going to basically have the demeanor of frat boys with lets just smash stuff approach. I think we have seen the best of the forsaken already in Ishy and Lanfear and it's going to be downhill from here into cartoon characters for them. 

Nah, we're only getting one of those, and it's Sammael. Asmodean does melancholy whipped dog, and Demandred does icy rage.  And I still think - to avoid bringing Shara into this - we get Taimandred. I just don't know which of the story arcs Sammael gets; probably the antagonist for the cleansing of the source., but he's off the board by season 6

[DreadLord31]

6 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I think you're a season ahead of yourself, if not more. Most of what you describe will likely fall in seasons 4 and 5.

 

I expect S3 is built around 2 plots - Perrin and the Whitecloaks in the Two Rivers; and Rand and Egwene in the Waste.  I'm sure Nyn and Elayne go back to the Tower, but I don't know if we get Mat at Rhuidean or Mat with the girls. Season ends with the Al'car Dail reveal cliffhanger, and Abel / Nattie's redemptions in the Two Rivers. So we get your normal points 1, 2 and 4.

 

3- Is a major focus of season 4, not 3.  It gets set up in Season 3, but doesn't happen until season 4.

5 - I don't think this happens until season 6. Think about how that scene ends and everything that has to happen to get the emotional payoff for the two characters.

6 - nope.  the girls won't meet for seasons, and Elayne has to get back to the tower to set up her brothers and mother's advisor. 

 

wild assumptions

1 - nope, this is the season 4 finale, not season 3.

2 - We aren't getting Rahvin, so this isn't happening. Unless they use Sammael instead, but I don't think we're going to Camelyn.

3 - Add Sorilea, Bair, Gaul, the friendly male Aiel that Rand "disciplines", and Mat's female friend

 

4 - nope; that's season 6 finale, I think - the end of Nynaeve / Lan's character arcs, and the end of Egwene's political battle. Mixed with cleansing of the source. Secondary plot for season 6 is Faile's kidnapping

 

Season 5 is Siuan's journey, Salidar set up, the girls in Tanchico, and Rand and the Aiel in Cairhien, ending with the Corenne in Tanchico. Let's see Mat in pink bows. 

 

That leaves Logain setting up the Black Tower, the War at the White Tower, Perrin's Trial, and Mat / Tuon for Season 7

 

Season 8 covers the fall of the Black Tower, the healing of the White, Tower of Genji (if they do it), Veins of Gold, and Tarmon Gaidon.

 

They are going to gut the slog; there might be 3 episodes that come out of those 4 1/2 books.

I like your layout - but you’re assuming that we’re going to get 8 seasons. I’m assuming they’re gonna tell Rafe “You got to really knock it out of the park in S3 or you’re done after S4.” I do think they’ll green-light a S4. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by DreadLord31

[Jaysen Gore]

3 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

I like your layout - but you’re assuming that we’re going to get 8 seasons. I’m assuming they’re gonna tell Rafe “You got to really knock it out of the park in S3 or you’re done after S4.” I do think they’ll green-light a S4. 

At this point, I'm still assuming 8 seasons. the Ratings are good enough, the budget is moderate, and Bezos is a fan.  And if we get season 4, I bet they commit to finishing it so the writers can plan the rest of it out and make sure it fits.

[Pandemonium]

2 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

At this point, I'm still assuming 8 seasons. the Ratings are good enough, the budget is moderate, and Bezos is a fan.  And if we get season 4, I bet they commit to finishing it so the writers can plan the rest of it out and make sure it fits.

Exactly.  Amazon isn't netflix or HBO and has different motivations for keeping shows.  Amazon also has deeper pockets.  I'm not sure if we get 5 seasons or 8, but I believe they will try to conclude wheel of time in some way.  Plus, adding ads will give an extra financial cushion for making this all work.

 

 

[Pandemonium]

I have no predictions other than lots of people will complain because there won't be enough episode screen-time and eventually things will get rushed to the season finale.  

[Mirefox]

Whatever they do story-wise, I hope they figure out the fast travel problem.

 

If you look at critical reactions to GoT, one of the most-criticized elements of the last couple seasons was how suddenly characters could be just about anywhere at any time.  It was a drastic shift from early seasons where travel actually meant something.

 

I completely understand that WoT has built-in fast travel options but they’ve already shown a willingness to get characters to a location by any means possible to advance the plot and it has just been too convenient.  We’ve lost any sense of scope of the world or journey.

[fra85uk]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:33 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

At this point, I'm still assuming 8 seasons. the Ratings are good enough, the budget is moderate, and Bezos is a fan.  And if we get season 4, I bet they commit to finishing it so the writers can plan the rest of it out and make sure it fits.

I am very skeptical about the possibility of 8 seasons.

I am pretty sure it won't be cancelled because rarely Prime does it (and they started only recently).

Were it Netflix, it would have been already dumped two years ago but I don't think that Prime, which is still trying to gain credibility as a platform, will take this route.

If I had to bet my 2 cents now, I would say four/five seasons, honestly.

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by fra85uk

[Jaysen Gore]

31 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

I am very skeptical about the possibility of 8 seasons.

I am pretty sure it won't be cancelled because rarely Prime does it (and they started only recently).

Were it Netflix, it would have been already dumped two years ago but I don't think that Prime, which is still trying to gain credibility as a platform, will take this route.

If I had to bet my 2 cents now, I would say four/five seasons, honestly.

 

Another factor that may come into play is an implied contract with audiences on pre-existing properties. If streaming companies buy up complete properties, and then continuously refuse to finish them (The Witcher on Netflix, The Expanse to name two), then they run a real risk of potential viewers not engaging with them because they don't trust that the story will ever be finished. Or worse, they buy it, and then absolutely butcher it when the numbers don't meet their  expectations, turning the audience against the production company because they broke faith. 

 

What has impacted ASOIAF and Rothfuss' Name of the Wind can come to streaming services just as well, and TV shows are way more expensive to produce than books.

[ForsakenPotato]

I agree we might see the white tower split this coming season, it's already been hinted at in one of Moiraine and Siuan's conversations. So far the seasons end with a combo of a victory and a new threat -- I can see a victory in the two rivers, maybe combined with the gals capturing Moghedien or some of the Aiel stuff, and Siuan deposed all happening in a finale or final two episodes. And I think she might actually get killed in the process. The books wait on killing important characters until closer to the last battle, but I think the show may not hold off that long.

 

I think it would be good for the threat in the finale to either be the white tower split or Rand losing some grip on his sanity, rather than just more Foresaken or Seanchan shenanigans. I guess there's also the Shaido but I'm really crossing my fingers that we get to skip them entirely.

[Scarloc99]

If Amazon cuts this short they are not just impacting this show, they are putting themselves at a disadvantage for any IP they try and bid for the rights on in the future. Hello Mr Author we want to make this "book series" into a massive sweeping epic tv show, what like you didn't with WOT, thanks but no thanks. 

 

But I agree with others, you are conflating books 4 and 5 to much. 

Season 3 Rafe has told us is Book 4, so, we are not getting tear at all. I am leaning into the idea others have had that Callandor replaces the bowl of the winds, so no Sword in the Stone moment. 

Everyone heads to Cairhien, this is so we can understand the issues between Aiel and that city, allows everyone to meet the Amirylian seat, Liandrin is outed and allows Verrin to hammer the nail into that coffin so as to "assure everyone she is a good aes sedai". Matt will be properly cured and the dagger will head to Tar Valon (hoping the horn does as well), the dagger wil be intercepted by Fain who will be with the whitecloaks who escaped Falme leading them to the 2 rivers.  Moiraine and Siuan will not reconcile fully, but Siuan will accept the need for Rand to complete the prophesies, and so will allow them all to "escape" leading to the accusation that lead to the coup. Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne will all go back to the tower, Egwene and Elayne will become accepted and then, before the coup, be sent off to Tanchio to hunt for signs of Liandrin. 

We will see the cracks in the tower leading to the coup in episode 7 or 8. 

Matt will travel with Rand and Egwene to Rhuidean, but accept that they might have him go in a different direction, but I do think we are getting the doorway and the Finn in one form, just not both doorways. 

Rand will continue learning, either Logain will join him, but more likely we will get Asmodean, who trains him in season 4, so Asmodean will be the main male protaganist in season 3, endng with the battle at Rhuidean and Asmo shielded, much in the same way Moiraine was (Rand has learnt that weave now having cut it). 

We will get at least 1 hopefully 2 fights in the 3 fold land, the Aiel attacked by trollocs ovenight, allowing us to see just how well Aiel fight as a massed group, and then the battle of cold rocks hold where Rand saves Avihenda and we see our first site of Draghkar, Pretty much all of this will follow the storyline of the book, Matt will play Maidens Kiss, and get it on with a dark friend maiden, Rand will go through the crystals, Avi and Moiraine through the hoops and Matt through the doorway, this could be a whole episode, showing Matt and Rands journey. 

Asmo will double dragon Couladin, he and Lanfer will be in the 3 fold land, Asmo "keeping an eye on her". That will end badly for him. 

Perrin will team up with Verin and Alanna and go to Eomonds Field, Bain and Chiad will travel with Perrin in place of Avi who is being called back to the 3 fold land, I hope we get Gaul joining them, possibly stating that if perrin allows the 2 maidens to look after him one will end up tripping him over with her spear, or some other such Aiel joke. That story will run as it does in the books more or less. 

 

[Mirefox]

What will be the end-season climax?  

[notpropaganda73]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:59 AM, DreadLord31 said:

I like your layout - but you’re assuming that we’re going to get 8 seasons. I’m assuming they’re gonna tell Rafe “You got to really knock it out of the park in S3 or you’re done after S4.” I do think they’ll green-light a S4. 

 

I actually agree with you in that is what Rafe will be told, but if they make the decision that "knocking it out of the park" means "squeeze as much into 8 episodes as possible", we're doomed. None of it will land, or some of it will, but not like it should. 

[notpropaganda73]

Something I think we need in S3 is more Tinkers, and Aiel interaction with them. I don't know how well Rhuidean will work if we don't have some context for how those cultures interact in the modern day.

[mogi68]

I generally agree with the OP's predictions. However, I think that Siuan will die in the coup and not survive.

 

46 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

What will be the end-season climax?  

 

Moiraine and Lanfear scene at the docks IMO

Edited October 9, 2023 by mogi68

[Elder_Haman]

My Season Three predictions:

• Rand and Egwene will go to the three-fold land along with Mo and Lan. Lanfear and Asmo will be there.
• Rand's arc will take him through Rhuidean and end with him being declared the Car'a'carn (and I'm hoping it will be a one-on-one, no power sword fight with Couladin after training with Lan for much of the season).
• Lanfear and Mo into the twisted stone ter'angreal as the S3 cliffhanger.
• Nynaeve, Mat and Perrin will decide to return to the Two Rivers by way of Camelyn where Elayne thinks they will get help from Morgase.
• We will get Rahvin doing his seducer thing.
• Mat will explore the palace and find the Tear version of the ter'angreal in Camelyn instead, ending up in Rhuidean with Rand and will save Rand from betrayal by Sevanna.
• Mat gets his fight with Galad (and Gawyn?) in Camelyn.
• Perrin will continue on to the Two Rivers. The Battle of the Two Rivers will be the big set piece of the season.
• Perrin will meet Luc (who I think will be made into one of the Forsaken, perhaps Sammael)
• Ewgene will train with the Wise Ones.
• Elayne and Nynaeve will have to flee from Rahvin after discovering that he's a Forsaken.
• Moggy will be tormenting Nynaeve.
• The Tower coup will happen with Elaida installed as Amyrlin in the finale. This will be the "slow plot" for the season as we get a deeper dive into Tower politics.

At the end of S3: Rand will be ascendant; Perrin and Bornhald will hate each other and be uneasy allies; Egwene will not get a ton of screen time but will be leveled up somehow; Mat, Rand and Egwene will be together and returning from the Waste; Nynaeve and Elayne will be headed toward Tanchico (or maybe Ebou Dar); Lan will be bereft.

[Joe B]

28 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Rand's arc will take him through Rhuidean and end with him being declared the Car'a'carn

How you do you feel about Aviendha naming him car’a’carn at the end of season 2?

[Elder_Haman]

32 minutes ago, Joe B said:

How you do you feel about Aviendha naming him car’a’carn at the end of season 2?

I didn't take it as her 'naming him' but rather as an expression of her individual belief. In terms of what that does to the Rand/Avi relationship, I need to reserve judgment. But it will have ripple effects.

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, mogi68 said:

I generally agree with the OP's predictions. However, I think that Siuan will die in the coup and not survive.

 

 

Moiraine and Lanfear scene at the docks IMO

Who then teaches Egwene? There is no sense to Siuan dying, she acts as the power behind the throne and then hands that power willingly over when she sees egwene is powerful enough.

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, Mirefox said:

What will be the end-season climax?  

Rand and Asmo fight and unmisting of rhuidean, 

[fra85uk]

Guys, if S3 is Book 4, I am very curious.

It is not easy to adapt it.

 

Just for example, you need to really define well Aiel culture to then make an impact when revealing the Rhuidean truth

[DreadLord31]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

My Season Three predictions:

• Rand and Egwene will go to the three-fold land along with Mo and Lan. Lanfear and Asmo will be there.
• Rand's arc will take him through Rhuidean and end with him being declared the Car'a'carn (and I'm hoping it will be a one-on-one, no power sword fight with Couladin after training with Lan for much of the season).
• Lanfear and Mo into the twisted stone ter'angreal as the S3 cliffhanger.
• Nynaeve, Mat and Perrin will decide to return to the Two Rivers by way of Camelyn where Elayne thinks they will get help from Morgase.
• We will get Rahvin doing his seducer thing.
• Mat will explore the palace and find the Tear version of the ter'angreal in Camelyn instead, ending up in Rhuidean with Rand and will save Rand from betrayal by Sevanna.
• Mat gets his fight with Galad (and Gawyn?) in Camelyn.
• Perrin will continue on to the Two Rivers. The Battle of the Two Rivers will be the big set piece of the season.
• Perrin will meet Luc (who I think will be made into one of the Forsaken, perhaps Sammael)
• Ewgene will train with the Wise Ones.
• Elayne and Nynaeve will have to flee from Rahvin after discovering that he's a Forsaken.
• Moggy will be tormenting Nynaeve.
• The Tower coup will happen with Elaida installed as Amyrlin in the finale. This will be the "slow plot" for the season as we get a deeper dive into Tower politics.

At the end of S3: Rand will be ascendant; Perrin and Bornhald will hate each other and be uneasy allies; Egwene will not get a ton of screen time but will be leveled up somehow; Mat, Rand and Egwene will be together and returning from the Waste; Nynaeve and Elayne will be headed toward Tanchico (or maybe Ebou Dar); Lan will be bereft.

The reason I think you’re predictions are very good is: 

 

A) We know Elaida has been cast in S3 and is a big-time Amazon actress, so she will play a significant role. 
 

B) They left us at the end of S2 with the beginnings of a real feud for Perrin, Bornhald, the Whitecloaks, and the Wolves — and with Fain fleeing and having a feud with Matt (thank goodness that’s finally getting back on track)

 

C) We got a little bit more of Aiel, the intro to Ji’eh’toh & the Carn’a’carn. We’ll definitely get more there. 
 

D) Moggy and the rest of the Forsaken being freed is the big cliff-hanger. Moggy is a creep with power who isn’t going to miss when she takes her shot at Rand. She’s gonna take a shot in S3 or their writing is bizarre. But we also need to meet more of the Forsaken. 
 

E) We know we have Camelyn and the Lion Throne as a set. I would think, then, that they’re going to have Rahvin & their going to change the Morgase plot to be a lot shorter - but their will be Elayne & Egwene & Avi & Rand relationship drama. And we will get Elayne’s brothers. So I too think we’ll get the iconic Matt fight in Camelyn. 

[Jaysen Gore]

I don't think they end up in Camelyn, like ever. I think the entire Morgase plotline goes away, and we meet the boys in TV with Elaida. 

 

Unless they give us Forsaken that weren't in the statues, we don't get Rahvin, Be'lal, Aginor, or Bathamel. Since one of the themes is about balance, I think we're only getting 4 male and 4 female forsaken, we know for sure who 7 of the 8 are, and we don't know 4 women yet. So its Semirhage or Mesaana.

 

 I don't expect Siuan to die in the coup, since she's needed to get Logain to Salidar.  More importantly from a production / audience standpoint, once the girls leave for Tanchico, we don't have another POV character in the Tower to show us the coup, and if they kill Siuan, that's it.  So build up Elaida and Gawyn this season, coup through Siuan's eyes next season, and set up / of Salidar and Logain's redemption in Season 5.

 

I like the Luc as Sammael thing. Eliminates an interesting character, but he's too complicated for television, and ties Perrin's conflict directly to a Forsaken without having Sammael be involved with the Whitecloaks.

 

I see people suggesting Asmo's role is limited to next year - I think they'll be very careful about turning the Forsaken into a big bad of the season model (introduced in episode 1, dead in 8), so look for them to offset their stories a little. 

 

As I've said from almost the beginning, I will be incredibly curious to see if we get the Snakes and the Foxes. Not only because of the impact on Mat, but also whether or not it would remove Lanfear and Moiraine from the board