WoT Season 2 Episode 7: Daes Dae'Mar

[Finnssss22]

Why is everyone so hung up on the whole a'dam/damane has to die ro remove it?

This is WoT, unreliable narrator is a huge thing.

Shame on people for forgetting that after how many years RJ screwed with us using it lol

You can NEVER take everything said as fact. What a character believes and what is actual fact are quite different. 

Who said it can only be removed through death? What context? Was it  sul'dam telling a damane that? Is it truth or is it to set into their mind that there's no hope of escape?

 

[Guire]

Ok show a'dam has a magical component to its form.  It deployed itself from a round metallic collar, itt can shrink itself through some means.  So giving your pet damane a bath would involve weaving tiny bit of spirit to shrink collar to minimum form.  Have damane heat water in bucket with power, garmet is unfastened at back or front like hospital gown and removed.  damane pour soapy water over self and scrub with air.  dress is cleaned and dried with one power.  New or cleaned clothing, shoes, hair adornments put back on.  Damane is forced to expand collar to daily form and tucked in for night.

 

I swear I reaf somewhere that form of collar was dictated  by set safety concerns.  I thin metallic collar that was at times attached to a chain presented to great of an accident risk.  So voila safety issue averted and even more funky run fashion added for the segment of fans clamoring for a George Michael patina on their horror action wartime fantasy.

 

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

[Windigo]

4 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

Why is it so difficult for some to accept that, in the lore of the show, the collars cannot be removed without first kilking the people wearing them?

The only thing we have to go on it is from an article from the costume designer, even if from the art drawings at the time that was the intent, we do not have anything from the show that backs it up, or if it stayed that way, until we do it is not in the "lore of the show"  Renna does not tell Egwene that the a'dam can never be removed, only that a damane can not remove the a'dam. So at this time that is the only show lore we have.  
If that is the case, and Egwene needs to keep wearing it, then that still does not mean they will not find a way to remove it at some point. 

[DreadLord31]

8 minutes ago, Finnssss22 said:

Why is everyone so hung up on the whole a'dam/damane has to die ro remove it?

This is WoT, unreliable narrator is a huge thing.

Shame on people for forgetting that after how many years RJ screwed with us using it lol

You can NEVER take everything said as fact. What a character believes and what is actual fact are quite different. 

Who said it can only be removed through death? What context? Was it  sul'dam telling a damane that? Is it truth or is it to set into their mind that there's no hope of escape?

 

Because @DigificWriter assured us that the costume designers word in an interview was gold - see link a ways back. 

[DigificWriter]

25 minutes ago, Finnssss22 said:

This is WoT, unreliable narrator is a huge thing

 

Not everything that is associated with the show can or should be assumed to be unreliable.

 

That way lies madness (and sweaty palms).

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Not everything that is associated with the show can or should be assumed to be unreliable.

 

That way lies madness (and sweaty palms).

But there’s no reason at all to think the collar can only come off if the damane is dead. We know that’s not true. The same way we know Rand is the Dragon. 

[Finnssss22]

10 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

Because @DigificWriter assured us that the costume designers word in an interview was gold - see link a ways back. 

 

Lol say no more, it all makes sense now.

[DigificWriter]

9 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

there’s no reason at all to think the collar can only come off if the damane is dead

 

Except for the fact that the show's Costume Designer flat-out said so.

 

11 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

We know that’s not true

 

 No. People are assuming it's not true based on book knowledge.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, DigificWriter said:

 

Except for the fact that the show's Costume Designer flat-out said so.

 

 

 No. People are assuming it's not true based on book knowledge.

I bet you a million internet dollars. 

[SinisterDeath]

16 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Not everything that is associated with the show can or should be assumed to be unreliable.

 

That way lies madness (and sweaty palms).

 

 

 

 

[VooDooNut]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

I bet you a million internet dollars. 

You could buy so many memes with that kind of money.

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Except for the fact that the show's Costume Designer flat-out said so

Also, this is flat wrong. Nerdist said it, not the costume designer. From the article you quoted:

Quote

 

The oppressive collars can only be removed when a damane dies.

Gilham incorporated that horrifying touch. She says, “I added the gold mouth stopper or dummy/pacifier to symbolize their further silencing as individuals.”  - via Nerdist

 

Notice where the quotation marks begin. Notice what is not in quotations.

So our source for your bold assertion is Nerdist, not the costume designer.

[SinisterDeath]

2 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Except for the fact that the show's Costume Designer flat-out said so.

 

 

 No. People are assuming it's not true based on book knowledge.

We've been down this road before.

The same thing was said regarding Moiraine.

 

Cast like Daniel said she was stilled in an interview.

We've went in circles over whether she is or isn't for months.

 

I'm pretty sure we argued about writers lying to the audience about her being stilled... And now you finally bring up the literary device "red herring" which is just a fancy way of saying... The writer lied to the audience. Lol

 

[DigificWriter]

There's a difference between debating something and/or acknowledging that, in one specific instance, BtS commentary proved unreliable and automatically assuming that nothing that anyone says in BtS commentary is reliable or that book knowledge holds 100% sway in every instance.

 

Also, the Nerdist article may not directly quote Sharon Gilham stating that the collar can only be removed when damane is dead, but that type of information could only have come from her.

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

There's a difference between debating something and/or acknowledging that, in one specific instance, BtS commentary proved unreliable and automatically assuming that nothing that anyone says in BtS commentary is reliable or that book knowledge holds 100% sway in every instance

That's where WAFO comes in.

 

I'm operating under the presumption that book lore holds true until the show proves otherwise.

 

E.g.

I'm assuming Rand is going to Fight Ishy in the sky until the show proves otherwise. 

[king of nowhere]

46 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Not everything that is associated with the show can or should be assumed to be unreliable.

 

That way lies madness (and sweaty palms).

 

 

no, it can only be assumed to be unreliable when there are very good reasons to doubt it.

like, for example, when it would create big plot holes and worldbuilding holes that could easily be solved if what we were told was not true.

 

Otherwise, you still haven't told me how you think they put the grey dress on ryma, or how they are going to keep the cloth from fraying and decaying over decades, or how they can avoid the damane from getting pressure ulcers, or parasites, or other kind of wounds under the collar, that could infect and be deadly if not treated - which they cannot treat because there is a collar in the way and seanchan don't know healing

Edited September 30, 2023 by king of nowhere

[Elder_Haman]

14 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Also, the Nerdist article may not directly quote Sharon Gilham stating that the collar can only be removed when damane is dead, but that type of information could only have come from her.

No. It could have just been made up by the author. Which is why it wasn’t placed in quotes. 
 

I’m sorry, but I’m going to trust the book lore over a random journalist from Nerdist. 

[DigificWriter]

2 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

That's where WAFO comes in.

 

Not everything is WAFO; sometimes (most times, I would argue) Word of God, BtS information can (should) be taken at face value and treated as binding without having to have said info confirmed onscreen.

 

4 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I'm operating under the presumption that book lore holds true until the show proves otherwise.

 

That's the thing; in this particular instance, the show has already proven that book lore doesn't hold based on the already-mentioned information from Sharon Gilham.

 

2 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

it can only be assumed to be unreliable when there are very good reasons to doubt it.

like, for example, when it would create big plot holes and worldbuilding holes that could easily be solved if what we were told was not true.

 

The a'dam not being able to be removed while a damane is living is not something that either breaks the world worldbuilding of the show or creates plot holes.

[DigificWriter]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

It could have just been made up by the author.

 

That is not how legitimate journalism works.

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

That's the thing; in this particular instance, the show has already proven that book lore doesn't hold based on the already-mentioned information from Sharon Gilham.

You mean information from a random journalist associated with Nerdist. 

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, DigificWriter said:

 

That is not how legitimate journalism works.

Nerdist and legitimate journalist aren’t typically mentioned in the same breath. 

[DigificWriter]

8 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

You mean information from a random journalist associated with Nerdist. 

 

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Nerdist and legitimate journalist aren’t typically mentioned in the same breath. 

 

The site is legitimate enough that Sharon Gilham agreed to speak with them (exclusively) about the show and share concept sketches.

 

Also, the author of the site's article, Amy Ratcliffe, is far from "some random journalist"; she is an incredibly well-known and well-respected book author, former podcast host, and freelance writer with a long and distinguished career.

Edited September 30, 2023 by DigificWriter

[SinisterDeath]

20 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Not everything is WAFO; sometimes (most times, I would argue) Word of God, BtS information can (should) be taken at face value and treated as binding without having to have said info confirmed onscreen.

I mean, everything is WAFO for us as viewers... lol.

 

Rule #1 in any media.

Someone isn't dead unless you see the corpse dead and buried. Preferably dismembered and turned into ash.

 

20 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

That's the thing; in this particular instance, the show has already proven that book lore doesn't hold based on the already-mentioned information from Sharon Gilham

The show has yet to show whether the costume designer is correct or not. Hence... WAFO.

 

20 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

The a'dam not being able to be removed while a damane is living is not something that either breaks the world worldbuilding of the show or creates plot holes.

Let's just decapitate Egwene, heal her head back on so she can become Amyrlin of the rogue tower after it splits... 

[A Memory Of Why]

I feel like the answer to the Adam removal is obvious, and since no one else is going to say it I will..

 

Spoiler

Balefire 🤗

 

[king of nowhere]

15 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

The a'dam not being able to be removed while a damane is living is not something that either breaks the world worldbuilding of the show or creates plot holes.

you still haven't told me how you think they put the grey dress on ryma, or how they are going to keep the cloth from fraying and decaying over decades, or how they can avoid the damane from getting pressure ulcers, or parasites, or other kind of wounds under the collar, that could infect and be deadly if not treated - which they cannot treat because there is a collar in the way and seanchan don't know healing