Liandrin-Ingtar swap

[Guire]

With all the great development of Liandrin and the lack of Ingtar build up so far, is anyone else hoping we get a surprise Last Embrace swap with Nyn reciting her dads prayer to Liandrin.  I am down if they do.

[DaddyFinn]

Doubtful given the subtle foreshadowing Ingtar has had in this season with Perrin and Loial. I suspect Liandrin will be in S3 at least

[Vartija]

This idea occurred to me as well as something they might do. By what we have been shown, Liandrin does have a more developed balancing act between good and evil than Ingtar. There's also the problem of what they'll do with her now that she's been exposed as Black Ajah. She won't be able to continue in the Tower much longer and since Elaida has been cast they won't combine her with Elaida's arc either. Will they keep her as a lower level darkfriend helping the Forsaken around like in the books? This swap could be convenient way to write her out of the show on a high note instead of diminishing her role in future seasons.  

 

But like @DaddyFinn said they've foreshadowed Ingtar as well which they probably wouldn't do if they intended someone else to take his arc. Unless they do both.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Vartija

[nsmallw]

I'd say they've done the bare minimum to foreshadow Ingtar, but it was only in the last episode that his interest in getting the horn was ever mentioned, whereas in the books he's quite obsessed about it all throughout the journey.  So if there is going to be an Ingtar redemption, then they need to push it in the last two episodes. I think if they do, it should be Loial that is involved, not anyone else. He's had the most interaction with Ingtar and it also would give Loial more storyline in season two. I'm excited about the prospect. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

11 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

I'd say they've done the bare minimum to foreshadow Ingtar, but it was only in the last episode that his interest in getting the horn was ever mentioned, whereas in the books he's quite obsessed about it all throughout the journey.  So if there is going to be an Ingtar redemption, then they need to push it in the last two episodes. I think if they do, it should be Loial that is involved, not anyone else. He's had the most interaction with Ingtar and it also would give Loial more storyline in season two. I'm excited about the prospect. 

There was also the burying of the Sheinarin darkfriend, that also makes a lot more sense given what happens in the books, which then would mean it should be with Perrin, as he knows that Ingtar values this service.

[king of nowhere]

16 hours ago, Guire said:

With all the great development of Liandrin and the lack of Ingtar build up so far, is anyone else hoping we get a surprise Last Embrace swap with Nyn reciting her dads prayer to Liandrin.  I am down if they do.

it could absolutely work as a plot, and I would like it.

however, i do not think the show is going this direction. as others have said, there is little ingtar buildup, but enough of it to point there

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

I’m not sure what will happen with Ingtar in the show but I have to wonder what the purpose of his character would be/why he would be a central character to that plot line if he doesn’t have a similar arc to his character in the books. I guess it’s a WAFO, as always 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Lightfriendsocialmistress

[Chivalry]

Unfortunately, Stepin got the character development, Ingtar is just background.  And Ingtar was one of the high points of Book 2. Whatever.

[Mirefox]

Ingtar has gotten so little time an development that I would guess most non-book readers can't even name the character when he's on screen.  I doubt they've picked up any subtleties about his motivations.  He's a bit similar to the blue sitter revealed as a Damane - nearly forgotten about by the viewers but they are going to try and circle around to him anyways.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Mirefox said:

Ingtar has gotten so little time an development that I would guess most non-book readers can't even name the character when he's on screen.  I doubt they've picked up any subtleties about his motivations.  He's a bit similar to the blue sitter revealed as a Damane - nearly forgotten about by the viewers but they are going to try and circle around to him anyways.

I'm not so sure that Ingtar is getting the same arc from the books. And I'm not sure that matters now. It was a good reveal in the books and one of the better scenes from tGH, but there doesn't seem to be room for it in the show. 

 

 

[Mirefox]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm not so sure that Ingtar is getting the same arc from the books. And I'm not sure that matters now. It was a good reveal in the books and one of the better scenes from tGH, but there doesn't seem to be room for it in the show. 

 

 

I don't think it matters at this point, either.  In the book, he actually did things that mattered in Fal Dara and his character seemed driven (vague for non-book readers).  He doesn't really need to be explained in this show.

[Elder_Haman]

8 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I don't think it matters at this point, either.  In the book, he actually did things that mattered in Fal Dara and his character seemed driven (vague for non-book readers).  He doesn't really need to be explained in this show.

Exactly. 

[Wassup]

In the book it was clear Ingtar was obsessed with getting the horn, to the point that others would comment on it.

 

It was during the reveal that we find he saw retrieving the horn as being key to his redemption/salvation after the things he did for the shadow. 
 

I get no such sense of urgency or obsession from him in the show. 
 

this was probably mentioned already. Sorry if I am duplicating somebody’s post. 

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

It has not been stressed, but there was the conversation with Loial where he is dismissive of helping Egwene, at least following the book. Given the dialogue with Perrin, then the dialogue with Loial, that seems like a fair amount of setting up. For someone new to the story, Ingtar should still seem to a bastion of the Light, Agelmar's right hand man, the one entrusted to take the Horn out of hiding, and to go get it back. Given how little time there is in the series, it seems to me that if things play out as the books, someone new to the show is still going to be shocked, and will be moved if the scene is filmed well, and then there will be the little clues to go back and pick up on a rewatch. 

 

Of course we need to WAFO, but the setting up there has been would be totally out of place without some sort of similar action as the book, and surely it is a stand out moment, and easy to replicate with a specific type of character, if for example Ingtar had not been included in the show. So I would be very surprised if the show is not heading the same place as the book, though I have been surprised before and will certainly be so again.

[Dagon Thyne]

I'm thinking that with so little emphasis being put on the horn itself, That they are going to extend the hunt for the horn until next season.  Trigger they were talking about adding a little more story lines to Fain, So maybe parents goes with the Shienarans to hunt Fain, who stole the horn from the Seanchan, they all end up in tear.  

[Mirefox]

Ingtar ended up meaning absolutely nothing to this story, so your theory has a chance.

[Guire]

2 hours ago, Mirefox said:

Ingtar ended up meaning absolutely nothing to this story, so your theory has a chance.

True, Liandrin and Lanfear may both enjoy a redemption arc then settle together in a fishing village happily ever after just to spite Mo and Siuan. I win again Amarasue.