WoT Season 2 Episode 5: Damane

[DigificWriter]

22 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

there is not a single thing so far that has not matched the books

 

1. Lews Therin Telemon being explicitly and publicly known as the Dragon Reborn

 

2. Lews Therin Telemon's soul having been reborn as a woman (possibly more than one woman)

 

3. Jain Farstrider being a woman

 

4. The Shadar Logoth dagger not being as deadly 

 

5. Galldrian being a woman

 

6. Barthanes Damodred being Moiraine's nephew

 

7. Anvaere being Moiraine's younger sister

 

8. Moiraine being in her 70s

 

9. The Two Rivers being the village name as well as the  geographical region wherein said village is located

 

10. Logain's Talent being the ability to detect male Channelers

 

11. The previous Wisdom of The Two Rivers being turned away from the White Tower because she was poor

 

12. Nynaeve not being a The Two Rivers native

 

13. Perrin having married Laila Dern

 

14. Egwene and Rand explicitly having an intimate physical relationship with one another

 

15. Moiraine and Siuan maintaining their "Pillowfriends" relationship - in secret- throughout their adult lives

 

16. Liandrin being old enough to have an elderly and dying son

Edited September 15, 2023 by DigificWriter

[ForsakenPotato]

10 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Egwene and Rand explicitly having an intimate physical relationship with one another

Of Rand's hookups, I think there's one in the show that's a tad larger departure from the books than Egwene...

Edited September 15, 2023 by ForsakenPotato

[Scarloc99]

Ok so much to unpack here, for once I read all the comments before commenting so there isnt a list of 30 comments before I do my own review but lets go. 

So first of all as always I watched this with my non book reading wife who has made it very clear since season 1 that if I try and talk about any of the books at any point then she will stop watching the show with me. She wants to enjoy it as a show with no hints, spoilers, or me saying this or that was different. So I always look at what she takes from the episode alongside my own thoughts. 

So, and this will be out of order in terms of scenes but. 

First of all the show is making a fantastic subtle switch from being Moiraine focused to Rand taking on the lead role, that line at the end "It is up to you, truly", is the first moment where Rand is truly given his own agency, it is a fantastic step towards Rand of the start of book 4, the Rand who spends days reading and researching before then making his own choices of what to do next and is the start of the writers moving Moiraine sideways into a supporting cast member role. I think the evidence points still to her being shielded but we can go round and round the houses on this one partly because the fakeout here has been so well written, I am sure the writers expected this debate to happen. 

I also loved that a lot of the complaints I saw in the episode 4 thread where very quickly answered here. 
Not enough lore drop - We had plenty here, all of it organic and meaningful to teh scene and conversation it took place in, no random exposition, fantastic writing. 
Dragon Reborn LTT soul was explained very clearly. 
Aiel and the 3 fold land
Black Ajah (brilliantly done)

World of Dreams
We had a leash and collar, despite what many many here where complaining about. and the impact was perfect, my wife actually exclaimed out loud, those (expletive) (expletive)
Turok has the Horn in his hands as per the book 

Vampire Foresaken, no Lanfer was in a bad place, she just managed to use the true power to heal her, which is the equivalent of Book, lets take you and make you alive again mr/mrs foresaken. 
How was Moiraine going to escape, well, very cleverly and very very very scared which was perfect. 

Ok Verin Spoilers here. 
 

Spoiler

This was the best and cleverest writing in the show, the little nods, the hints, and the fact that she outed the black ajah without actually mentioning them herself (because her 3 oaths mean she can't), was so brilliantly written. 

 My wife is in love with her as a character and watching her put herself back in positions, I also love the 

Spoiler

Sheriam fake out, those of us that know the books understand that even though she is Black there is every reason why Liandrin would have no idea (despite me earlier thinking she might, and book Sheriam having much more knowledge of who is black). 

Liandrin, is just evil, the way she "dealt" with suroth is pure Darkfriend tactics, I won't act openly against you but, lets make things difficult and hope you lose face with our superiors/your actual face, and is very very very book Liandrin. I am now even more convinced that you can trust nothing she has said to anyone up to this point, including about her "son". She is a master manipulator and everything she does, every look, every nod, is all calculated and planned. 

Avi, ok, at first when I read about this it upset me that she was going to be in the cage, partly because I think her intro in the books is so so epic. Just that image of the girls thinking the only cover is several hundred meters away and then realising there is an aiel at their feet is perfect. But, I do think it is important for the show that all 3 main ladies are introduced early and, I don't see this impacting Avi's story. Gaul tells perrin that the water oath was repaid long long before the end of the books, he stayed because they where friends. I can see Avi repaying the water oath at Falme and then Gaul being introduced another way, I wouldn't even mind if they made him a brother to Avi or some other relation, who joins up with Perrin as a thankyou for saving Avi without necesarily having Toh. The fight, yes was in darkness, I had to pause and turn off all the lights and put the brightness on the TV up because I had a sense where the show was taking us there and, well, I wanted my wife to see it. I will say however that it is clear whoever has done the costuming and choreography for the Aiel has obviously been watching Dune, there are real similarities between Avi and Channi on screen, which is not a bad thing, I always felt that while he never admitted it RJ was more inspired by the Freman then he admitted. 

Fain, I am intrigued, another clever fakeout, which to be fair happens in the books, it isn't really until book 4 that it is absolutely clear that he is his own man, in book 2 he is still carrying out orders while in parallel having his own agenda because the 2 are aligned. My wife also has stated that he needs to die. 

So yes, the best episode of both seasons so far, and, more importantly, a continuation of strong episodes. 

Oh and as an aside, yes Liandrin got the girls into the ways and no, personally my wife and I don't really care how she did it, I am also not so concerned about her going up and down getting forgery done. I have a feeling we might learn that there is more to all of that then meets the eye and it will be a reveal for later. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

7 hours ago, MarcusM said:

Ep205: Lanfear: ..."because Moghedien is insane, Greandal is vain idiot and the boys couldn't execute a plan even if they were under compulsion".

She would surely have criticised book Moghedien as cowardly and book Semirhage as insane so perhaps they are conflating those two and making Moghedien the master torturer.

[Scarloc99]

37 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

1. Lews Therin Telemon being explicitly and publicly known as the Dragon Reborn

 

2. Lews Therin Telemon's soul having been reborn as a woman (possibly more than one woman)

 

3. Jain Farstrider being a woman

 

4. The Shadar Logoth dagger not being as deadly 

 

5. Galldrian being a woman

 

6. Barthanes Damodred being Moiraine's nephew

 

7. Anvaere being Moiraine's younger sister

 

8. Moiraine being in her 70s

 

9. The Two Rivers being the village name as well as the  geographical region wherein said village is located

 

10. Logain's Talent being the ability to detect male Channelers

 

11. The previous Wisdom of The Two Rivers being turned away from the White Tower because she was poor

 

12. Nynaeve not being a The Two Rivers native

 

13. Perrin having married Laila Dern

 

14. Egwene and Rand explicitly having an intimate physical relationship with one another

 

15. Moiraine and Siuan maintaining their "Pillowfriends" relationship - in secret- throughout their adult lives

 

16. Liandrin being old enough to have an elderly and dying son

Ok 

1) LTT was always known as the Dragon so calling him the Dragon Reborn is not changing anything 

2) We Dont know that the Dragon has not been a women in the books and more importantly 

Spoiler

The wheel does not turn the way you seem to think it does, the next turning of the wheel is not the same in any way shape or form as this one, and by that i mean there may not be a one power, humanity might all live under the sea, the dark one might be released by a war, or because someone left the gas on, they might be sealed up by a dog. There was a dragon LTT, his soul was reborn in Rand Al Thor, and, once Rand does his thing thats it, possibly no more dragon ever again in this form at all. 

 

3) As far as I am aware It has not been confirmed that Jain is a women, as many people think that Rand was simply saying Egwene wanted to be like the Male Jain Farstrider. That has been back and forth

4) No the Shadar Logoth Dagger did not kill an Ogier, we never saw it stab an Ogier in the books, and Rafe has admitted in interviews and a panel that mistakes where made in reagards to lore and how things came across at the end of season 1, until we see the dagger used again on a human (ogiers are aliens from another planet after all) then we can't confirm or deny that. 

5) A character who is barely named in the books and never really makes an appearance and dies off screen has been made a women, that is not a major lore change, it is barely a change. 

6/7) In the books he is the son of Moiraines uncle, so a cousin not a nephew, again that is not a significant lore change, neither is the age change. Anvere is her sister in the books as well, so this is all the same. 

you now what I could go on, ok I should have said that no major lore or story changes have been made, you are talking about minor things, and I include Perrin having a wife here, that don't change the lore or overall story. 

You are fixated on this idea that the show Must be totally different to the books, and yet so far things are not panning out that way yes there are changes but all the main, and side characters are pretty much as described in the books, the main plot points are as described in the books, and as time has gone on things have become more, not less aligned. The writers have taken the source material, adapted it, but stuck to all the key themes and character motivations. In the books Liandrin joins the black because she wants power, here the explanation to Nynave is pretty much the same, she wants power. 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Scarloc99

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

5 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

D) the Seanchan High Lord's have "voices" but then they publicly speak anyways -- seems like you need them to have lines because it's a Tv Show but you want to give a nod to the book readers. 

It is book normal for Seanchan blood to directly address those close to them in degree (and Turok is only fractionally higher than Suroth as evidenced by the same number of lengthened fingers, although his completely shaved head suggests very high rank) and "ignore" that the conversation will be overheard by those too low to be directly addressed.  A Tuon POV chapter shows her being able to directly address a King instead of using her voice to make a public announcement in front of assembled officers and nobles of the return.

[Scarloc99]

25 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

It is book normal for Seanchan blood to directly address those close to them in degree (and Turok is only fractionally higher than Suroth as evidenced by the same number of lengthened fingers, although his completely shaved head suggests very high rank) and "ignore" that the conversation will be overheard by those too low to be directly addressed.  A Tuon POV chapter shows her being able to directly address a King instead of using her voice to make a public announcement in front of assembled officers and nobles of the return.

Also, as a brit, loving that the americans are the invading slave owning evil empire 🙂, usually it is us british who are the villains of a show 🙂 

[Aquarius]

Hey there !

Having read all the comments there's one feeling I can't rid myself off :

- Given the whole "1 guy 3 girls" thing would probably feel dated and downright sexist today

- Given how they portrayed Min & Aviendha's introduction.

... I kind of fear that Tuon/Faile 's roles will be removed or changed without the love relationship with Mat/Perrin respectively.

EDIT .... and that Min & Aviendha will take these roles.

I don't know what to make of this but that's nagging at me.

 

Do we have comments from Sanderson/Judkins/Someone else that disproves this ?

 

The episode is great !

Edited September 16, 2023 by Aquarius

[Scarloc99]

41 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

Hey there !

Having read all the comments there's one feeling I can't rid myself off :

- Given the whole "1 guy 3 girls" thing would probably feel dated and downright sexist today

- Given how they portrayed Min & Aviendha's introduction.

... I kind of fear that Tuon/Faile 's roles will be removed or changed without the love relationship with Mat/Perrin respectively.

EDIT .... and that Min & Aviendha will take these roles.

I don't know what to make of this but that's nagging at me.

 

Do we have comments from Sanderson/Judkins/Someone else that disproves this ?

 

The episode is great !

Rafe stated at the very start that the Rand 3 girls poly situation is happening in the show, but, it will be more polyamory then polygamous, this means that they will focus more on the emotions and connections between the 3 women, with a thought by some in the book community that Avi and Elayne will have a far more intimate relationship then in the books. But we are getting the relationship, and Faile I believe is confirmed for season 3

[DreadLord31]

7 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

1. Lews Therin Telemon being explicitly and publicly known as the Dragon Reborn

 

2. Lews Therin Telemon's soul having been reborn as a woman (possibly more than one woman)

 

3. Jain Farstrider being a woman

 

4. The Shadar Logoth dagger not being as deadly 

 

5. Galldrian being a woman

 

6. Barthanes Damodred being Moiraine's nephew

 

7. Anvaere being Moiraine's younger sister

 

8. Moiraine being in her 70s

 

9. The Two Rivers being the village name as well as the  geographical region wherein said village is located

 

10. Logain's Talent being the ability to detect male Channelers

 

11. The previous Wisdom of The Two Rivers being turned away from the White Tower because she was poor

 

12. Nynaeve not being a The Two Rivers native

 

13. Perrin having married Laila Dern

 

14. Egwene and Rand explicitly having an intimate physical relationship with one another

 

15. Moiraine and Siuan maintaining their "Pillowfriends" relationship - in secret- throughout their adult lives

 

16. Liandrin being old enough to have an elderly and dying son

Let’s add: 

17. Moiraine and Rand going to the EotW & Moiraine being stilled or shielded by Ishy. 
 

18. Matt’s parents being garbage. Matt being “prone to evil”. Matt’s whole arc basically. 
 

19. Uno dying. 

20. Seanchan taking Atuwans Mill. 
 

21. Seanchan sending a tital wave at a little girl alone on a beach? 
 

22. Rand receiving no training//time sword fighting with Warders 

 

23. No Gawyn and Galad at the Tower with Elayne. No Elaida yet. No Camelyn yet. Was there mention of both brothers this episode? Here I was hoping Gawyn was cut! 😉 

[Luinedhel]

It's curious that the episode is called "Damane", when almost no time of it was dedicated to show Egwene's captivity under the Seanchan. Nevertheless, I still think Episode 5 is the best so far. Here are some thoughts on it:

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Luinedhel

[MarcusM]

4 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

Let’s add: 

17. Moiraine and Rand going to the EotW & Moiraine being stilled or shielded by Ishy. 
 

18. Matt’s parents being garbage. Matt being “prone to evil”. Matt’s whole arc basically. 
 

19. Uno dying. 

20. Seanchan taking Atuwans Mill. 
 

21. Seanchan sending a tital wave at a little girl alone on a beach? 
 

22. Rand receiving no training//time sword fighting with Warders 

 

23. No Gawyn and Galad at the Tower with Elayne. No Elaida yet. No Camelyn yet. Was there mention of both brothers this episode? Here I was hoping Gawyn was cut! 😉 

 

Ahh while we are at it:

 

24. No green man / Nym

 

25. TEOTW is merged with Shayol Ghul

 

26. Aginor and Balthamel not there

 

27. The Eye is not a distilled pure source of saidin. Which I opposed to most believe is hugely problematic as I believe that the Eye was especially made as an insulation towards the madness of the taint.

 

28. The seals are way bigger, holds a forsaken each and can't really be moved around.

 

29. You can be burned out when linked.

 

30. The defeat of the trolloc army wasn't done by Rand.

 

31. Egwene is apparently a very skilled healer. (which despite being a wisdom candidate is not her book-skillset)

 

32. Healing can be done en'masse from afar.

 

33. The ways requires the one power to be used.

 

34. There are 8 forsaken.

 

35. Shielding someone off "requires" 8 Aes Sedai (not 13 anymore).

 

37. The Horn's location was wrong.

 

38. The "tell"

 

39. The male little figurine with a sword is not an angreal but rather "the strongest sa'angreal ever made"

 

40. The Seanchan army looks more like monsters than insects

 

41. The nails

 

42. The damane / suldam way of working and appearances

 

I am sure there is more...

---

There is definitely a case for changing too many minor, small or medium sized things that as a whole it wont feel like Randland anymore. And some of the above are potentially large or even major changes. Will we see the use of the Choedan Kal?

 

 

[MarcusM]

6 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

She would surely have criticised book Moghedien as cowardly and book Semirhage as insane so perhaps they are conflating those two and making Moghedien the master torturer.

Good thinking! How would that play out? Would we see Moggy in the infamous torture scene with that Aes Sedai (Brianna Mecandes???) and her warder?

 

Will she torture Nyn? Or Liandrin even worse?

[DaddyFinn]

45 minutes ago, MarcusM said:

 

Ahh while we are at it:

 

25. TEOTW is merged with Shayol Ghul

 

33. The ways requires the one power to be used.

 

39. The male little figurine with a sword is not an angreal but rather "the strongest sa'angreal ever made"

 

 

 

 

25. What makes you think that? Just because Ishy's personal seal was there? Didn't give me any Shayol Ghul vibes.

 

33. & 39. These are likely the case of unreliable narrator though I don't remember if Mo said the sa'angreal is "the strongest ever made" or just "it will make your power a thousandfold stronger".

 

Padan Fain managed to use the Ways "somehow" and that somehow is showed in BTS/cut footage. Hopefully we'll see the answer in the future.

 

Other points I have no interest in answering. Some are objective changes and some subjective

Edited September 16, 2023 by DaddyFinn

[MarcusM]

2 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

25. What makes you think that? Just because Ishy's personal seal was there? Didn't give me any Shayol Ghul vibes.

 

33. & 39. These are likely the case of unreliable narrator though I don't remember if Mo said the sa'angreal is "the strongest ever made" or just "it will make your power a thousandfold stronger".

 

Padan Fain managed to use the Ways "somehow" and that somehow is showed in BTS/cut footage. Hopefully we'll see the answer in the future.

 

Other points I have no interest in answering. Some are objective changes and some subjective

Aha. Right I remember incorrectly I see. And in the light of S2 events I misunderstood some stuff…

 

39. E108 13:50. Moi says his power will increase a 100-fold. Btw, is that really a sa’angreal or is that really the “fat little man” angreal that book-Rand found in Rhuidan? Is Moi wrong about it being a sa’angreal?

 

33. Aha. Right, could be there is another way. But then, wouldn’t Loial know if there was? And again could have had an Aes Sedai open it for him. I guess we have to WAFO.

 

25. Yes you are right, I assumed that since Ishy was imprisoned there, then it would be Shayol Ghul. Still there seems little resemblance between the book Eye and Shayol Ghul.

 

Which brings me back to the core point of the discussion I believe. The many many changes and the implications and risks with them.
 

Doesn’t really matter if they are subjective or objective. They changed a lot of stuff and as fans here we obviously have different appetites for them. For some, red lines have clearly already passed. Others apparently just fully embrace the changes and welcome them. 
 

My own standpoint is somewhere in the middle I guess. I don’t really fancy the systemic changes done, but can accept leaving out or removing plot lines,  Or even including additional sub stories and scenes where that makes sense.

 

My biggest fear is still that they would change too much to alienate the fans while still not making it exciting with enough quality to attract the masses. Then the show would face the risk of being prematurely ended despite Amazon’s promises.

 

[Gary Again]

It was really hard to hear that much anguish in Egwene's voice on the next preview, I always have a tough time with that part in the books and it seems like it's going to be tougher in the show because it sounds like her actress does an amazing job with it. I got the feeling in the first season Maighen (the sitter with the blue that met Moiraine in the bath house) is going to be Pura. She mentioned that she was going west to investigate the rumors of an invasion so I think that is where she ends up.

 

I love Liandrin removing the shield and letting the Seanchan deal with them before they were collared. I feel like if Suroth would have been able to be cordial they would have been collared and then unshielded but Liandrin just kind of didn't GAF at that point and gave Nynaeve a chance. Also liked Elayne bringing some fire and Egwene protecting everyone as they ran as I thought those both fit their personalities. Also kind of cool that Nynaeve couldn't channel because she was scared and not angry but she still kept her wits about her and kept Elayne moving and got out of there. Also like that we have our first wonder girls capture this is a nice tradition. I like that it was a yellow that rescued them and also just like that they are keeping the story of the Aes Sedai under cover in Falme helping out women that can channel I always thought that was so brave since they could be sensed so I always thought it was impressive that an Aes Sedai stayed under those conditions.

 

I liked Lanfear doing a ring wraith impersonation I think she took the horse because she wanted to catch Rand not get somewhere quickly so I think not using the gateway makes sense. I liked the b line almost felt like she kind of respected Moiraine. The speech with Ishy was good, I enjoyed that he's worried she is going to betray him, it was nice to get some mention of the other forsaken and Ishy talking about ending the wheel. Then we get full on Dominatrix Lanfear and Moiraine continuing to throw babies at the dark one. She's just like "IDK maybe dream of Lanfear and see where things go? You make the call this time Rand." Seems like she's just flat out of ideas at this point.

 

Perrin was good and I like Avi but I just didn't like them using that scene for Avi's introduction. I think if they are using Gaul they should use that scene for Gaul. Faile also has some amazing lines that come out of that because she watches the whole thing and you lose the whole reason that Gaul is ride or die for Perrin. Also Avi had an amazing entrance to the books by surrounding the Fade with the other Maidens banging on their shields so I just didn't like switching intros and I don't see what this intro does for Avi that the other intro wouldn't be able to do but I guess we'll see where it goes. I did really like the Dain Bornhald intro and I liked that he helped out Perrin initially and then Perrin spared him. That definitely adds some interesting dynamics to the relationship so I thought that was nice.

 

Turok I like him but I just get hypnotized by that armor it looks amazing and every time they show him I just wonder how he's going to fight with a sword but I'm sure they've thought it out. In the books they had really intricate clothes for the seanchan nobility but they had quick releases so they could get out of the clothing and move quickly when needed so I wonder if we will see something like that. Next episode is going to be tough it sounds like Egwene does a great job with it. 

[Agitel]

12 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

1) LTT was always known as the Dragon so calling him the Dragon Reborn is not changing anything 

2) We Dont know that the Dragon has not been a women in the books and more importantly 

  Hide contents

The wheel does not turn the way you seem to think it does, the next turning of the wheel is not the same in any way shape or form as this one, and by that i mean there may not be a one power, humanity might all live under the sea, the dark one might be released by a war, or because someone left the gas on, they might be sealed up by a dog. There was a dragon LTT, his soul was reborn in Rand Al Thor, and, once Rand does his thing thats it, possibly no more dragon ever again in this form at all. 

 

 

The below shouldn't be taken as a complaint about the show doing things differently. Some of it may just be for simplification. But just to drill down on how it works in the books (and again, it's fine if the show is doing things differently):

 

(1) This isn't consistent with the understanding the people of the Age of Legends had. In the prologue of FOH, Granedal states that the idea of a man being born for a specific purpose or prophecy is unknown to them. In the prologue of TGS Graendel states that Demandred could have been on the other side and even been the Dragon. The idea that LTT was specifically born to fight the Dark One, or that his same soul had done so in a previous turning of the Wheel, was foreign to them. They had no memory of the Dark One. Ishy seems to have developed this idea himself as the war went on, and after absorbing all the Third Age prophecies of the Dragon Reborn, but to the people of the Age of Legends it was just a title anyone could have earned that was not linked to any greater theology or role as a recurring Champion designated by the pattern.

 

(2) Jordan confirmed in interviews that souls are gendered and that LTT/Rand's is always incarnated as a male, but that there are other heroes (women heroes too) who can be brought forth to play hugely significant roles when needed. Sanderson has also confirmed that this is how Jordan defined his world.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Agitel

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

2 hours ago, MarcusM said:

book-Rand found in Rhuidan

The great holding of Tear to be exact - he needed it to activate the portal stone that took them to Rhuidean.

[MarcusM]

18 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

The great holding of Tear to be exact - he needed it to activate the portal stone that took them to Rhuidean.

Right. My mind bogs me apparently. So which is it? The figurine in E108…

[Mirefox]

46 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

The below shouldn't be taken as a complaint about the show doing things differently. Some of it may just be for simplification. But just to drill down on how it works in the books (and again, it's fine if the show is doing things differently):

 

(1) This isn't consistent with the understanding the people of the Age of Legends had. In the prologue of FOH, Granedal states that the idea of a man being born for a specific purpose or prophecy is unknown to them. In the prologue of TGS Graendel states that Demandred could have been on the other side and even been the Dragon. The idea that LTT was specifically born to fight the Dark One, or that his same soul had done so in a previous turning of the Wheel, was foreign to them. They had no memory of the Dark One. Ishy seems to have developed this idea himself as the war went on, and after absorbing all the Third Age prophecies of the Dragon Reborn, but to the people of the Age of Legends it was just a title anyone could have earned that was not linked to any greater theology or role as a recurring Champion designated by the pattern.

 

(2) Jordan confirmed in interviews that souls are gendered and that LTT/Rand's is always incarnated as a male, but that there are other heroes (women heroes too) who can be brought forth to play hugely significant roles when needed. Sanderson has also confirmed that this is how Jordan defined his world.

 

The idea of gendered souls is very problematic to Rafe's worldview, which he has explicitly stated he is intentional crafting his version of this story around.  Of course we won't see a gendered One Power (and no, briefly mentioning it in some short that isn't part of the main show absolutely does not count - they've dropped the ball big time with Saidin/Saidar); of course souls aren't gendered; of course the Dragon Reborn has sometimes been a man and sometimes been a woman.  It is patently obvious that Rafe has fundamental disagreements between his modern worldview versus Jordan's classical feminism.  Whether or not any given viewer appreciates that is up to them so I'm not arguing here that it is a good thing or a bad thing, just that it is obvious and should not be surprising.

[Mirefox]

Did anyone pick up on Perrin's pronunciation of Loial's name?  I'm now thinking back to other times we've heard his name and I can't remember how it was pronounced in past episodes, but Perrin's pronunciation jumped out at me.  It was like how Lando pronounces Han in The Empire Strikes Back; I can't stand when there isn't consistency within a show (accents aside).

 

On that topic, have they been pronouncing Falme consistently?  I'm used to the audiobook pronunciation and it irks me a little, but if everyone is saying "Falm," I can live with it as long as it is consistent.

[Mirefox]

14 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Then tell book Liandrin this, I mean this pretty much follows the book version of events. 

Really?  Liandrin secretly unties Nyn in the books before handing the girls over?  I'll have to re-read.  If that's the case, I still think it doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Scarloc99]

1 minute ago, Mirefox said:

Really?  Liandrin secretly unties Nyn in the books before handing the girls over?  I'll have to re-read.  If that's the case, I still think it doesn't make a ton of sense.

Ahh sorry I misunderstood, no in the books Liandrin doesn't untie them, I thought you where talking about taking them herself out of the city. 

In the books I don't remember but I have a feeling she is there when they escape and so is aware that they are loose, but I think her assumption is (as it must have been here) that there is no way an accepted and 2 novices can escape the Seanchan. 

[Mirefox]

5 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Ahh sorry I misunderstood, no in the books Liandrin doesn't untie them, I thought you where talking about taking them herself out of the city. 

In the books I don't remember but I have a feeling she is there when they escape and so is aware that they are loose, but I think her assumption is (as it must have been here) that there is no way an accepted and 2 novices can escape the Seanchan. 

I'm going further down the rabbit hole of my own spotty memory.  I've read the series multiple times and listened to the audiobook a couple and now I can't remember exactly what happens, lol...stupid aging.

 

In the books, do the Seanchan try to get a collar on Liandrin here, too?  I know the exchange doesn't go down as smoothly as planned.

[Irvyne]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:53 PM, Agitel said:

And, I'm going to get stoned for this, but I'm not 100% sold on Josha as Rand. His voice is very pouty. This isn't a commentary on his acting skills, exactly. You know, I can see some of Rand in the way he's being written. I can. I just finished Book 8 again in my sixth or seventh reread, and there are aspects to all of this where I do see Rand. But I don't feel like I see either the sheepherder or king yet. (Obviously we shouldn't be seeing the king yet, but still). He feels a bit in no man's land.

I agree. I feel like Rand seems pretty weak, although Josha certainly looks the part. I think the problem is, he really hasn't been given a whole lot to do yet in this show, which as the main character is a bit of a problem. Most of his scenes are just standing around looking bewildered. Hopefully he'll take a more active role in the future.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Irvyne