WoT Season 2 Episode 4: Daughter of the Night

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, Mailman said:

Another disappointing episode.

 

Warders are just nothing compared to the books. The relentless talk about the bond is at a complete overkill level considering the dire state of the worldbuilding across the series considering we are now 50% through the 2nd season.

 

Distance and travel times are just irrelevant, we need to go here then next scene there we are with no recognition of time or distance involved. Alanna was in the tower teaching then had to go to Moiraine, bam shes there, then Moiraine leaves them and bam she is just in Cairhein. 

 

Looks like we are getting insta respawn forsaken. Not really sure how Moiraine followed them to the dagger it feels unlikely that the cabin would be part of any real story from the fake Selene. Making following them incredibly hard.

 

Why are the forsaken randomly imprisoned all over the world with individual seals it made sense in the books that they were trapped near the bore when the one seal was applied and they fell out of time I can see no sense why you would do it in a manner that appears deliberate for each one.

 

Be it realistic or not the size of the wolves makes them look like fairly small dogs, its hard to imagine them attacking in the manner in the books, hell even seeing hopper jump when giving his name to Perrin was very underwhelming that was meant to be an attempt to jump into the sky.

 

The departure from the books accelerates every episode.

We do't know what time scales we are talking about here, or what the timeline is, for me there is no linear storyline here, so the Moiraine Lan stuff has been happening in the past, and the Rand Selene stuff is now, and the 2 storylines are being brought in line. 

Moiraine knowing where Rand is makes perfect sense, and in some ways shows Lanfer being too lax. She showed Rand off to high society and brought him to everyones attention, it makes sense, knowing what we know about the Game of Houses I imagine at least 4 houses instantly put spies on Rand to find out who he is, what he is doing and where he goes. I can imagine as soon as Rand and Selene "slipped away" there where eyes on them tracking where they had gone. If Selene had not taken him to that ball, then no one would care about him and they would not have been found. As for insta respawn we don't know the rules behind this but for me this does match the books, the Foresaken could suffer an immense amount of damage and not "die". 

What world building are you missing? We are seeing the world on the screen, we are learning about the forsaken and seeing the plans being unfolded. We are learning the lore and the rules of the world at the exact same rate as the characters which is how the story is told in the books, the stuff we don't know is the stuff that the characters don't know yet either. 

The wolves, ok so to have "bigger" wolves they need to be CGi'd, which is a money sink I am happy with the show creators not making. Watching it with my wife who has never read the books she loved the wolves and they did what they are mean to do. Hopper jumping, again, it works for what it needs to show, because I would much rather the effects budget be spent on other things then just making the wolves look good. 

We are assuming that the Foresaken are trapped all over the world, this may be the case, or it might be again that the characters do't really understand what is going on. We also never saw in the books how the freeing took place so this does not go against the books at all, because we never saw it. 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

Moiraine knowing where Rand is makes perfect sense, and in some ways shows Lanfer being too lax. She showed Rand off to high society and brought him to everyones attention, it makes sense, knowing what we know about the Game of Houses I imagine at least 4 houses instantly put spies on Rand to find out who he is, what he is doing and where he goes. I can imagine as soon as Rand and Selene "slipped away" there where eyes on them tracking where they had gone. If Selene had not taken him to that ball, then no one would care about him and they would not have been found. As for insta respawn we don't know the rules behind this but for me this does match the books, the Foresaken could suffer an immense amount of damage and not "die". 

 

No it does not.

 

She took him to a party where they stole some wine.

 

Even if they put spies on them which from that interaction i would deem a low chance how would they have been followed up the mountain path for days and even if they were followed how could they have reported the location of the cabin back to Carihein in time for Moiraine to have followed that distance in that space of time. It does not make narrative sense. Remember the cabin is not truly part of Selene's past so it can't be a known location for her.

 

As for the insta respawn no we dont know the rules but Moiraine seems to know that you can't actually kill them.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Mailman

[Elder_Haman]

On 9/9/2023 at 9:02 AM, Vartija said:

There's a double take of Egwene reacting similarily just seconds apart when talking to Nynaeve.

I think this is actually intentional. There's a little bit of this in the Ishy/Min conversation too. I think this is a glimpse into T'a'R. We will see.

[SinisterDeath]

9 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I think this is actually intentional. There's a little bit of this in the Ishy/Min conversation too. I think this is a glimpse into T'a'R. We will see.

The scene with Egwene/Nynaeve wasn't in T'a'R, it was in the Tower.

 

It's like someone in the editing room recycled the same footage just before she looked down at Nynaeve's ring. I don't know if this was a mistake in the editing room, maybe some footage they had just after looking at the ring was unusable so they used the best footage they had and hoped we wouldn't notice, but this episode was objectively NOT the best edited episode this season.

 

The scene with Ishy & Min was obviously intentional. 

[Vartija]

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I think this is actually intentional. There's a little bit of this in the Ishy/Min conversation too. I think this is a glimpse into T'a'R. We will see.

I think the Min/Ishy scene was intentional and indeed part of T'A'R but the Egwene/Nynaeve scene didn't have that type of setup to it imo. Or am I forgetting something about T'a'r that would explain why they'd introduce it in that scene?     

[Scarloc99]

29 minutes ago, Mailman said:

No it does not.

 

She took him to a party where they stole some wine.

 

Even if they put spies on them which from that interaction i would deem a low chance how would they have been followed up the mountain path for days and even if they were followed how could they have reported the location of the cabin back to Carihein in time for Moiraine to have followed that distance in that space of time. It does not make narrative sense. Remember the cabin is not truly part of Selene's past so it can't be a known location for her.

 

As for the insta respawn no we dont know the rules but Moiraine seems to know that you can't actually kill them.

He burnt the invite and was told that all the houses where looking at him, figuring him out, Moiraine was told by her sister that she knew exactly where he was and what he was doing, meaning they knew where they had headed and who knows who might have tracked them further. In the books we see evidence of houses going to extreme lengths to get any scrap of information they can. I don't care about "known locations for selene", the issue is that Rand has, unintentionally, become a player in the game of houses and as a result the houses will be scrabbling to figure out why a tall man who looks like an Aiel but obv isnt, might suddenly be involved in the game and what role is he playing. Is he really poor, or is it a cover. In the books we see so many instances of Rands very innocent actions being read into and assumptions 20 plots deep being created just because he said hello to someone to be polite. You are ignoring the books here while trying to find reasons why this makes no sense in relation to the books. 

The Foresaken in the books are creatures of legend the stuff of nightmares, they scare even the Aes Sedai so it is in no way a surprise that Moiraine might have some semblance of an idea that simply stabbing one and slitting her throat might not be enough to kill one for good, if anything it feels a very logical assumption to make, and, if Moiraine was wrong and Lanfer was dead then playing it safe and running away is the far wiser option. 

 

[Elder_Haman]

58 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

The scene with Egwene/Nynaeve wasn't in T'a'R, it was in the Tower.

 

It's like someone in the editing room recycled the same footage just before she looked down at Nynaeve's ring. I don't know if this was a mistake in the editing room, maybe some footage they had just after looking at the ring was unusable so they used the best footage they had and hoped we wouldn't notice, but this episode was objectively NOT the best edited episode this season.

 

The scene with Ishy & Min was obviously intentional. 

I'll have to watch again. Maybe I wrote it off as lag the first time.

[SinisterDeath]

25 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'll have to watch again. Maybe I wrote it off as lag the first time.

Blink and you'll miss it.

[DaddyFinn]

The weird double take on Nyn&Egwene has apparently been fixed. Haven't rewatched myself yet

[SinisterDeath]

8 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

The weird double take on Nyn&Egwene has apparently been fixed. Haven't rewatched myself yet

Huh, just checked, and you're right! 

Oddly, my prime video tab text is now showing up in Spanish. O_o

[Skipp]

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

The wolves, ok so to have "bigger" wolves they need to be CGi'd, which is a money sink I am happy with the show creators not making. Watching it with my wife who has never read the books she loved the wolves and they did what they are mean to do. Hopper jumping, again, it works for what it needs to show, because I would much rather the effects budget be spent on other things then just making the wolves look good.

 

And while European wolves are typically smaller than North American wolves these wolf-dogs are smaller still.  Even with that I prefer having the actual animals on set compared to GoT where they had to cut nearly all instances of the Dire Wolves due to budget.  Yes, I wish we could have actual big bois wolves in the show but it just is not practical.  And I am quite happy with how they are portraying the wolves with the restrictions they have.

 

Also yes, I teared up at Hopper trying to fly.  It was a perfect scene.

[Cipher]

Some really good takes from all sides in this thread.

 

I get goose bumps when the action on screen resembles the books.

-Perrin getting mentored 

-Girls getting lured by Liandrin to leave the tower, but would have made more sense the way Jordan wrote it. Why make unnecessary changes?

 

Changes I like:

-Moiraine and her sister

-Logain lined up to be mentor

 

Changes which are bad:

-Lan being neutered from S1E2 on.

-Alanna and her warders get way too much screen time.

-Min’s casting is bad.

-Selene and Rand shacking up is meh, but may be pays off.

-Zombie Lanfear— cut off her head and burn all of her body. Moiraine could walk away.

 

Mid Changes:

-Mat is barely there in TGH and so his sidelining is not so bad comparatively.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Cipher

[Scarloc99]

28 minutes ago, Cipher said:

Some really good takes from all sides in this thread.

 

I get goose bumps when the action on screen resembles the books.

-Perrin getting mentored 

-Girls getting lured by Liandrin to leave the tower, but would have made more sense the way Jordan wrote it. Why make unnecessary changes?

 

Changes I like:

-Moiraine and her sister

-Logain lined up to be mentor

 

Changes which are bad:

-Lan being neutered from S1E2 on.

-Alanna and her warders get way too much screen time.

-Min’s casting is bad.

-Selene and Rand shacking up is meh, but may be pays off.

-Immortal forsaken— cut off her head and burn all of her body. Moiraine could walk away.

 

Mid Changes:

-Mat is barely there in TGH and so his sidelining is not so bad comparatively.

I actually think this way makes more sense and is better, it shows how manipulative the Dark is, how deep the plans go, Liandrin has been building to this moment long before she "encouraged" Nyn to follow her through a secret path out of the tower, Nyn thinks she has been so clever finding Liandrins secrets, thinks that liandrin is a lot like her so she is taken in by the news about perrin, trusts her because she put her forward for the test, but in reality the whole thing has been built to this moment. She has also avoided any doubt being put on her, in the books all it would have taken was one of the girls to tell another Aes Sedai, let something slip, or alert someone and it was all over, this way the girls have been manipulated into coming up with the plan all by themselves. 

I don't think Lan has been neutered, I think he is on a character arc that he sorely missed in the books, a lot of it happened off screen and we just saw different Lan each time he made an appearance. Lan in book 1 was written to be Aragorn to Moiraines Gandalf, the eye of the world is based off of the fellowship for a number of reasons but thematically and style wise it has always been the odd one out of the books and the main issue with it is that RJ had to change his main characters throughout the rest of the story creating reasons for them to obviously become the characters he wanted to be and not the obvious pastiche versions of the fellowhip of the ring. In the TV show the writers have the benefit of seeing the far more interesting Lan that we get later on in the series, and they have the opportunity to show that transition, it is also clear that they needed to find a reason to do the other thing the books do not do, develop Moiraine as an actual character. In the books she is fairly one dimensional, you never know whats going on in her head, what her plans are or what really her motivations are for each decision she makes, she again is the Gandalf to Rands Frodo and a wizards methods are never to be questioned or debated. Then she is pushed out by Rand and spends alot of time pouting and getting her nose put out before finally bending the knee and then the thing happens. But we never see her character really develop, Matt thinks her and Thom is out of the blue because it is, it is never really hinted at in the books because we never know what Moiraines emotions are. Now that makes for a really dull character in a TV show in the modern era, so we need to give her an arc, especially because we know where her storyline is headed and the TV audience need to be fully invested in her to be shocked by that moment. 

Selen and Rand I will just say is brilliant and I much prefer this version of that story to the one in the books. In the books Lanfer was not in love with Rand, but with the man she was convinced was in his head so it always made her obsession with him feel a bit abstract and hard to fully understand, until the end when finally you understood that LTT was actually in his head and there was a chance he would become LTT (the moment on the mountain). In this version Rand has told her he loves her, the embodiment of the only man she has ever loved has returned that love, meaning she can latch onto that single line and become proper crazy ex girlfriend and have it make sense. LTT abandoned her but this Dragon told her he loves her, and that would not have made sense without the 2 of them forming a proper physical relationship. 

Alanna and the Warders I feel is all going to pay off, for one thing we know at least one of the warders is going to be dead probably in season 3 (Alanna loses a warder at Emonds Field), but I also like the comments and discussions about open relationships, we know that Polygamy is going to be a key aspect of Rands story and according to the rumours Avi and Elayne may well become pillow friends, this all sets up the non book audience to the idea that these types of relationship in Randland, while rare, are acceptable to some and not totally alien. 

I don't see why you don't like Mins casting. I think she is perfect for the role and is playing the role exactly as I pictured it. 

Finally, Forsaken in the book are pretty un killable as well, the only way to kill one properly while the darklord is about is Balefire, Ishy is walking around with his face half decomposed, they are stabbed, shot with arows and burnt by fire and carry on regardless, and when they do die they are given a new body and allowed to carry on. This is a perfect way to show that on screen while not having to recast the actor after every battle. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Ralph]

31 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I actually think this way makes more sense and is better, it shows how manipulative the Dark is, how deep the plans go, Liandrin has been building to this moment long before she "encouraged" Nyn to follow her through a secret path out of the tower, Nyn thinks she has been so clever finding Liandrins secrets, thinks that liandrin is a lot like her so she is taken in by the news about perrin, trusts her because she put her forward for the test, but in reality the whole thing has been built to this moment. She has also avoided any doubt being put on her, in the books all it would have taken was one of the girls to tell another Aes Sedai, let something slip, or alert someone and it was all over, this way the girls have been manipulated into coming up with the plan all by themselves. 

 

besides all this, in the book version you have the girls trusting someone they barely know, who is an AS encouraging them to do something against Tower rules. it fits with RJ consistently writing Eg and El as impulsive and thoughtless, but it's a much less believable story

[king of nowhere]

57 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

 Matt thinks her and Thom is out of the blue because it is, it is never really hinted at in the books because we never know what Moiraines emotions are.

On the other hand, I liked it because it fits them so much.

they are both extremely skilled social players. they can read volumes in a raised eyebrow. they can ask you a couple innocent questions and from those understand things about you that you yourself never suspected. they could read the comments in this forum and from those somehow predict who will win the next elections.

 

so it makes so much sense for them to just spend some time around each other, mostly ignoring each other, and yet somehow understanding everything.

I can see their married life.

M looks at T

T looks at M

M looks at T

T leaves without saying a word

Thom noticed the slight twitching in moiraine's finger; it means she's nervous. and she gets nervous when she doesn't have a good breakfast. it means they run out of milk, so thom went to the market. Moiraine perfectly understands where he's going and why

 

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

No it does not.

 

She took him to a party where they stole some wine.

 

Even if they put spies on them which from that interaction i would deem a low chance how would they have been followed up

 

Just one word: ta'veren

very convenient for the plot

[Storeebooq]

2 hours ago, Cipher said:

 

 

Changes which are bad:

-Lan being neutered from S1E2 on.

 

A man experiences sadness, loss, re-evaluation of his purpose, and many other powerful emotional experiences, and they portray it frankly on screen, and suddenly, he's "neutered".  smh

 

I've said this before, and I'll likely say it again, Rafe & team are showing that the men in the series have actual depths to their emotional experiences, will EXPRESS and obviously deal with those emotions (in both healthy and unhealthy ways), confide in and support each other, and grow....This is a HEALTHY portrayal and only strengthens the characters. 

 

Lan will likely recover and grow from this, and he's going to be an even stronger character in the end. No body is being neutered. 

 

Well, the assumption that a healthy man must be stoic, emotionless, and perfect is being neutered. 😉

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Storeebooq

[Cipher]

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

(1)I actually think this way makes more sense and is better, it shows how manipulative the Dark is, how deep the plans go, Liandrin has been building to this moment long before she "encouraged" Nyn to follow her through a secret path out of the tower, Nyn thinks she has been so clever finding Liandrins secrets, thinks that liandrin is a lot like her so she is taken in by the news about perrin, trusts her because she put her forward for the test, but in reality the whole thing has been built to this moment. She has also avoided any doubt being put on her, in the books all it would have taken was one of the girls to tell another Aes Sedai, let something slip, or alert someone and it was all over, this way the girls have been manipulated into coming up with the plan all by themselves. 
 

(2)I don't think Lan has been neutered, I think he is on a character arc that he sorely missed in the books, a lot of it happened off screen and we just saw different Lan each time he made an appearance. Lan in book 1 was written to be Aragorn to Moiraines Gandalf, the eye of the world is based off of the fellowship for a number of reasons but thematically and style wise it has always been the odd one out of the books and the main issue with it is that RJ had to change his main characters throughout the rest of the story creating reasons for them to obviously become the characters he wanted to be and not the obvious pastiche versions of the fellowhip of the ring. In the TV show the writers have the benefit of seeing the far more interesting Lan that we get later on in the series, and they have the opportunity to show that transition, it is also clear that they needed to find a reason to do the other thing the books do not do, develop Moiraine as an actual character. In the books she is fairly one dimensional, you never know whats going on in her head, what her plans are or what really her motivations are for each decision she makes, she again is the Gandalf to Rands Frodo and a wizards methods are never to be questioned or debated. Then she is pushed out by Rand and spends alot of time pouting and getting her nose put out before finally bending the knee and then the thing happens. But we never see her character really develop, Matt thinks her and Thom is out of the blue because it is, it is never really hinted at in the books because we never know what Moiraines emotions are. Now that makes for a really dull character in a TV show in the modern era, so we need to give her an arc, especially because we know where her storyline is headed and the TV audience need to be fully invested in her to be shocked by that moment. 

(3)Selen and Rand I will just say is brilliant and I much prefer this version of that story to the one in the books. In the books Lanfer was not in love with Rand, but with the man she was convinced was in his head so it always made her obsession with him feel a bit abstract and hard to fully understand, until the end when finally you understood that LTT was actually in his head and there was a chance he would become LTT (the moment on the mountain). In this version Rand has told her he loves her, the embodiment of the only man she has ever loved has returned that love, meaning she can latch onto that single line and become proper crazy ex girlfriend and have it make sense. LTT abandoned her but this Dragon told her he loves her, and that would not have made sense without the 2 of them forming a proper physical relationship. 

(4)Alanna and the Warders I feel is all going to pay off, for one thing we know at least one of the warders is going to be dead probably in season 3 (Alanna loses a warder at Emonds Field), but I also like the comments and discussions about open relationships, we know that Polygamy is going to be a key aspect of Rands story and according to the rumours Avi and Elayne may well become pillow friends, this all sets up the non book audience to the idea that these types of relationship in Randland, while rare, are acceptable to some and not totally alien. 

I don't see why you don't like Mins casting. I think she is perfect for the role and is playing the role exactly as I pictured it. 

Finally, Forsaken in the book are pretty un killable as well, the only way to kill one properly while the darklord is about is Balefire, Ishy is walking around with his face half decomposed, they are stabbed, shot with arows and burnt by fire and carry on regardless, and when they do die they are given a new body and allowed to carry on. This is a perfect way to show that on screen while not having to recast the actor after every battle. 

-I don’t know how to break up quote to respond piece meal.

-Do you agree with every change of the show?  Do you have any criticisms of it?

 

“Randland”

1. Liandrin has been grooming Nynaeve for some unseen purpose.  It is not a stretch for Liandrin to say, “come let us  rescue your friends,” Nynaeve agrees to come. Egwene and Elayne then get attached the way Elayne does in the show.  Liandrin doesn’t need to knock them out show style, but betrays them book style.  Carrying 3 people clandestine is much harder than having them willingly following you.  Show did its way for drama as a hook for next weeks episode.  Contrived.

 

2.  Lan-sigh.  Daniel Henney is a good actor for Lan. I can understand the desire to give his character an arc and more screen time.  But you know what a 14 book epic that is being adapted to 8 TV seasons doesn’t need? Another character to have to show development on—Rand is being diminished for agendas and decisions that have 0 to do with telling the WoT story.  Book Lan is actually a deep character who is mysterious and broken by his past. In Wheel of Rafe he is broken by Moiraine’s loss of the OP and her pushing him away.  Moiraine is now on her own trying to save the world without the OP and literally the best swordsman in the world—makes no sense, she needs Lan more than ever. Contrived.

 

3.  I like your take on Selene, but it is a stretch for a Forsaken to just play house and manage an inn.  May be emotionally for Lanfear she is just trying to recover some normal life that she lost by turning evil. 

4. Ya, we got to show and talk about freaky sex stuff, because of the Aiel sister wife thing.  I would be ok if Rand just jumped from one of his girls to the next and never be married to them at the same time.  That is something I would approve of being changed.  Do people get pregnant in Randland?

 

more later probably

 

 

[Cipher]

20 minutes ago, Storeebooq said:

A man experiences sadness, loss, re-evaluation of his purpose, and many other powerful emotional experiences, and they portray it frankly on screen, and suddenly, he's "neutered".  smh

 

I've said this before, and I'll likely say it again, Rafe & team are showing that the men in the series have actual depths to their emotional experiences, will EXPRESS and obviously deal with those emotions (in both healthy and unhealthy ways), confide in and support each other, and grow....This is HEALTHY and only strengthens the characters. 

 

Lan will likely recover and grow from this, and he's going to be an even stronger character in the end. No body is being neutered. 

 

Well, the assumption that a healthy man must be stoic, emotionless, and perfect is being neutered. 😉

 

 

Healthy man?  A man who had his family and nation destroyed by the forces of darkness? Nobody said book Lan is healthy.  See my response to Scarloc.

[Storeebooq]

1 minute ago, Cipher said:

 

 

3.  I like your take on Selene, but it is a stretch for a Forsaken to just play house and manage an inn.  May be emotionally for Lanfear she is just trying to recover some normal life that she lost by turning evil. 

 

 

She was willing to be stuck as a fat merchant in a caravan for months in the Aeil Waste in the books, so I feel like being an innkeeper in the Foregate is in line with her character and patience. 

[Storeebooq]

3 minutes ago, Cipher said:

Healthy man?  A man who had his family and nation destroyed by the forces of darkness? Nobody said book Lan is healthy.  See my response to Scarloc.

I definitely was NOT talking about book Lan being a healthy portrayal. Only referencing show Lan as remotely healthy (and by healthy I mean realistic)  portrayal. 

 

And to be extra clear, I am talking about the portrayal of a man being healthier. Not necessarily the character being healthy, mentally or physically. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Storeebooq

[Cipher]

1 hour ago, Storeebooq said:

I definitely was NOT talking about book Lan being a healthy portrayal. Only referencing show Lan as remotely healthy (and by healthy I mean realistic)  portrayal. 

 

And to be extra clear, I am talking about the portrayal of a man being healthier. Not necessarily the character being healthy, mentally or physically. 

 

 

Agree to disagree.  Show has too much ground to cover and they make changes that take away from the EF5 who I think should be the focus.  Book Lan would crush show Lan and stay with Moiraine no matter what she said.

 
Whiney, “we really aren’t equals?”  WTH?  Warders are deadly guard dogs protecting important people.
 

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, Cipher said:

they make changes that take away from the EF5 who I think should be the focus

 

Not to be pedantic, but it's the 'Two Rivers 5' in the show, and the fact that Rafe and his team have unequivocally made Moiraine the Lead of the series means that they were never going to be the direct focal point of the story in this particular Turning.

[Mailman]

8 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

He burnt the invite and was told that all the houses where looking at him, figuring him out, Moiraine was told by her sister that she knew exactly where he was and what he was doing, meaning they knew where they had headed and who knows who might have tracked them further. In the books we see evidence of houses going to extreme lengths to get any scrap of information they can. I don't care about "known locations for selene", the issue is that Rand has, unintentionally, become a player in the game of houses and as a result the houses will be scrabbling to figure out why a tall man who looks like an Aiel but obv isnt, might suddenly be involved in the game and what role is he playing. Is he really poor, or is it a cover. In the books we see so many instances of Rands very innocent actions being read into and assumptions 20 plots deep being created just because he said hello to someone to be polite. You are ignoring the books here while trying to find reasons why this makes no sense in relation to the books. 

The Foresaken in the books are creatures of legend the stuff of nightmares, they scare even the Aes Sedai so it is in no way a surprise that Moiraine might have some semblance of an idea that simply stabbing one and slitting her throat might not be enough to kill one for good, if anything it feels a very logical assumption to make, and, if Moiraine was wrong and Lanfer was dead then playing it safe and running away is the far wiser option. 

 

In the book he was built up as a potential outland lord by a number of small instances all combining to raise his social interest to the nobility. There is no parallel to the shows butchering of this.

 

In the books he is found dressed as a lord with the stunning Selene travelling with him who is also playing a lady at the time at the site of a major project for the King of Cairhein. He is then escorted to the capital by some of the soldiers guarding the project further raising his interest. He then by his nativity and straight forwardness continues to escalate his social status.

 

In the show he is simply a man who snuck into 1 party with a foregate innkeeper stole some wine and burnt 1 invitation and works in an insane asylum. And I would argue the invitation burning was added to the show simply as a nod to the books and not for any other narrative purpose.

 

The location of the cabin matters, Selene has no history, the cabin of her past is a fiction. Can you really see Lanfear spilling where she is really going to anyone but Rand and his knowledge is limited purely to Lanfear, closing the loop. She especially is going to be tight lipped considering she is so close to her goal of regaining her lost love.

[DreadLord31]

3 hours ago, Storeebooq said:

Lan will likely recover and grow from this, and he's going to be an even stronger character in the end. No body is being neutered. 

I believe by “neutered” he probably wasn’t referring to seeing a more emotional Lan (I think all of us can agree that Ageless/Stoic Aes Sedai & Warders weren’t going to “work” for Tv); I think he was probably referring to the fact that Tv Lan seems pretty incompetent as a Warder so far because: 

 

A) he can’t cover up Moiraine’s “tell” and so was easily followed. 
B) he’s pretty much only “lost” in fights 

C) Moiraine has directly said “you’ve failed me” and so “released” his bond 

D) now he’s pouty and doesn’t know what to do

 

None of which happened in the books. None of which makes Lan look like a guy who walks into the Blight alone with a just a sword. 
None of which makes us believe that Lan is THE most BA Warder of the books. 
None of which sets us up to believe that Lan can take on the best swordsman in history and “tie”. 
 

Now this whole Moiraine rudeness and pushing Lan away, and Lan allowing it. If the payoff is 

Spoiler

Moiraine knew she was going to die fighting Lanfear because Min told her; and we see it this season - they accelerate that timeline

Then I will have mad respect for Rafe and the writers and actually like this plot line. 
 

But. If they’re doing this crap to just keep Moiraine central and make up a story for her and they don’t know what to do with Lan while they keep making up stuff for Moiraine. Then, they’ve just ruined their adaptation, and I predict (sadly) they won’t make it to 8 seasons, because they are waaay overestimating Pike’s pull if that’s the case. IMO 

Edited September 12, 2023 by DreadLord31

[DreadLord31]

On 9/10/2023 at 10:00 AM, BookMattBetterThanShow said:

I think this will be solve in episode 5, I watch the preview several times, I think the person riding the horse is Moraine?

 

I think that’s  Lanfear riding the horse. I presume we’re to believe that Rand and Moiraine ride away somehow…