WoT Season 2 Episode 4: Daughter of the Night

[Cipher]

56 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Don't need to shield them, if they're unconscious!

 

It's the same way Benadryl works with Allergies.

May be she has some forkroot.

[Mailman]

59 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Don't need to shield them, if they're unconscious!

 

It's the same way Benadryl works with Allergies.

But then you have to physically move 3 bodies all the way to Flame, very difficult as well. Keeping them unconscious also means you have to find a way to feed them and keep them from soiling themselves unless you want very messy travel conditions.

[SinisterDeath]

19 minutes ago, Mailman said:

But then you have to physically move 3 bodies all the way to Flame, very difficult as well. Keeping them unconscious also means you have to find a way to feed them and keep them from soiling themselves unless you want very messy travel conditions.

Didn't say her plan was smart or well thought out. (We also don't know how long she's in the ways for... If you go by the Teaser for S2E5, I'm guessing it's only about 12 hours?)

I'm actually far more concerned with how the hell she's going to get 3 bodies out of Tar Valon, to the Way Gate outside of the city... Unless they've hidden another Way Gate inside the city that Moiraine didn't know about...

[Scarloc99]

6 hours ago, Cipher said:

May be she has some forkroot.

Aes Seai have no idea what forkroot is and I think that will be maintained in the series, it makes for a more dramatic scene if someone is caught out by it rather then being force fed it. 

[Agitel]

I admit it'd work well as a later surprise but there's a lot of content to cover. It would not surprise me if they brought it in this early.

[Storeebooq]

15 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Didn't say her plan was smart or well thought out. (We also don't know how long she's in the ways for... If you go by the Teaser for S2E5, I'm guessing it's only about 12 hours?)

I'm actually far more concerned with how the hell she's going to get 3 bodies out of Tar Valon, to the Way Gate outside of the city... Unless they've hidden another Way Gate inside the city that Moiraine didn't know about...

Curious to how they will depict her hauling them around. In the books, she could just wrap them up in weaves of air and lug them up on horses. But not sure if they'll have that same use of weaves of Air in the series.

I am getting ready for it to be one of those plot points we'll just have to ignore for the sake of the over all story. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Storeebooq

[Mirefox]

44 minutes ago, Storeebooq said:

Curious to how they will depict her hauling them around. In the books, she could just wrap them up in weaves of air and lug them up on horses. But not sure if they'll have that same use of weaves of Air in the series.

I am getting ready for it to be one of those plot points we'll just have to ignore for the sake of the over all story. 

I doubt you're going to see it.  We will just have to use our imaginations.  Likely, the story picks up when the girls wake up in the Ways.

[Cipher]

11 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Aes Seai have no idea what forkroot is and I think that will be maintained in the series, it makes for a more dramatic scene if someone is caught out by it rather then being force fed it. 

Ya, but I see changes else where and it wouldn’t surprise me if we see it here too.  Actually I half expect a bit of hand waving and the next time we see these 4 will be in the Ways with the girls waking up.  How you get there?  Don’t ask too many questions.

 

One small change I dislike is the necklace part of the a’dam, no way can you covertly snap one of those on a person.

[Cipher]

1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

I doubt you're going to see it.  We will just have to use our imaginations.  Likely, the story picks up when the girls wake up in the Ways.

Said the same thing. Jinks!

[Windigo]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:02 AM, Guire said:

Btw I have never seen these kind of complex poly relationships do well in long run in real world.  I think the royal harem polygamy relationship from book actually has a better chance at working irl.  Its like 3 simple coexisting relationships running parallel and can have decently defined rules.  

I know of a couple successful polyamorous relationships that have lasted decades, so far. I do not know that they are any less likely to last than any other type of relationship, more risk of breakups only because there are more relationships.  

[Windigo]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:47 AM, Cipher said:

This data is from 2017.

56x per year for marrieds and 51x for non-marrieds.  Marrieds use to be 67x per year.  So societal changes seems to influence these numbers.  There use to be a bigger disparity.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/06/numbers

 

”A lot of devoted married people have ‘open’ relationship.”

I would argue being devoted is mutually exclusive to having an open relationship.  I would like to see the data on how long a marriage that is “open” tends to last.

The 55/51 is average looks much different when you look at age groups. The 80x of 18-20 year old married couples drops to 20x a year for those over 65
We have an aging population, so the drop in averages makes statistical sense. 

[Elder_Haman]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:57 PM, Mailman said:

But then you have to physically move 3 bodies all the way to Flame, very difficult as well.

As demonstrated when they came out of the ways, Liandrin was knocking the girls out and draping them over their horses. Why is that hard? Especially when you can use the OP to accomplish all the lifting.

[Mailman]

10 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

As demonstrated when they came out of the ways, Liandrin was knocking the girls out and draping them over their horses. Why is that hard? Especially when you can use the OP to accomplish all the lifting.

Well ok.

First you have to shield 3 channelers by yourself.

Then you have to transport 3 unconscious students through the tower and into the stables all without being seen.

Then further you have to ride said horses with unconscious and bound students to the waygate even if you assume that the waygate is located inside all the guard checkpoints that would require an amazing amount of luck.

As for the using the power to lift in the books I think Siuan says that she used to be able to lift about 3 times her bodyweight before her severing so splitting that into 3 flows and keeping it up for at least the distance to the stables would probably be very difficult.

There are lots of other potential difficulties that time would have caused to this plan but since the show basically skips all travel it's impossible to tell.

 

It was a terrible change, terribly written and thought out from start to end. It makes even less sense because in the show unarguably Nynaeve trusts Liandrin more than the books making the use of a trick far more likely to be successful.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Mailman

[SinisterDeath]

21 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Well ok.

First you have to shield 3 channelers by yourself.

Then you have to transport 3 unconscious students through the tower and into the stables all without being seen.

Then further you have to ride said horses with unconscious and bound students to the waygate even if you assume that the waygate is located inside all the guard checkpoints that would require an amazing amount of luck.

As for the using the power to lift in the books I think Siuan says that she used to be able to lift about 3 times her bodyweight before her severing so splitting that into 3 flows and keeping it up for at least the distance to the stables would probably be very difficult.

There are lots of other potential difficulties that time would have caused to this plan but since the show basically skips all travel it's impossible to tell.

 

It was a terrible change, terribly written and thought out from start to end. It makes even less sense because in the show unarguably Nynaeve trusts Liandrin more than the books making the use of a trick far more likely to be successful.

 

 

Or it was a vast conspiracy 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

36 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Well ok.

First you have to shield 3 channelers by yourself.

Then you have to transport 3 unconscious students through the tower and into the stables all without being seen.

Then further you have to ride said horses with unconscious and bound students to the waygate even if you assume that the waygate is located inside all the guard checkpoints that would require an amazing amount of luck.

As for the using the power to lift in the books I think Siuan says that she used to be able to lift about 3 times her bodyweight before her severing so splitting that into 3 flows and keeping it up for at least the distance to the stables would probably be very difficult.

There are lots of other potential difficulties that time would have caused to this plan but since the show basically skips all travel it's impossible to tell.

 

It was a terrible change, terribly written and thought out from start to end. It makes even less sense because in the show unarguably Nynaeve trusts Liandrin more than the books making the use of a trick far more likely to be successful.

I’m sorry that this detail breaks the suspension of disbelief for you. For me, it could have been accomplished by any number of methods and showing me exactly how it was accomplished is unnecessary. 
 

I will respectfully disagree with your conclusion that it was “terrible”. 

[Mailman]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I’m sorry that this detail breaks the suspension of disbelief for you. For me, it could have been accomplished by any number of methods and showing me exactly how it was accomplished is unnecessary. 
 

I will respectfully disagree with your conclusion that it was “terrible”. 

You asked me for the reasons why it was hard to accomplish the things required using her plan. And now you are just flat out ignoring those valid reasons.

[Mailman]

27 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

 

Or it was a vast conspiracy 

 

 

 

 

 

?

 

Yeah maybe what really happened is Liandrin was really sculpted out of clay and she suddenly remembered a trick her father used to turn an island invisible and that she had used to turn a cup invisible and she mastered that ability to move them out of the tower unseen.

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Mailman said:

You asked me for the reasons why it was hard to accomplish the things required using her plan. And now you are just flat out ignoring those valid reasons.

You entirely discount the idea of her having assistance. She’s a high ranking dark friend on a mission important to the Forsaken.  

[Elder_Haman]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:57 PM, Mailman said:

But then you have to physically move 3 bodies all the way to Flame, very difficult as well. Keeping them unconscious also means you have to find a way to feed them and keep them from soiling themselves unless you want very messy travel conditions.

Yes. All those things that TV shows often account for when they are showing people moving around in world. Many hours of film are typically devoted to bathroom logistics.  

[Mailman]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

You entirely discount the idea of her having assistance. She’s a high ranking dark friend on a mission important to the Forsaken.  

Even having assistance does not make moving 3 bodies unseen any easier. Seeing 3 unconscious and bound students being moved in the tower is going to raise a mountain of questions.

 

And you are writing the script for the show and filling in plot holes because of your desire for it to work.

[Elder_Haman]

6 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Even having assistance does not make moving 3 bodies unseen any easier. Seeing 3 unconscious and bound students being moved in the tower is going to raise a mountain of questions.

 

And you are writing the script for the show and filling in plot holes because of your desire for it to work.

No. I’m offering explanations because IT DOESN’T MATTER TO ME. It’s the type of picayune little triviality that can be pointed out in nearly every tv show and that 80% of people never even notice, much less bother to think deeply about. 
 

But sure. We’ll go with “WORST WRITING EVER!!” 
 

This whole discussion is like being trapped in the dialogue about swallows in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Elder_Haman

[Mailman]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

No. I’m offering explanations because IT DOESN’T MATTER TO ME. It’s the type of picayune little triviality that can be pointed out in nearly every tv show and that 80% of people never even notice, much less bother to think deeply about. 
 

But sure. We’ll go with “WORST WRITING EVER!!” 

You are filling in the holes with explanations you are making up with no evidence to support your rewriting.

 

And again you asked me what was hard about the plan that was actually used in the show and have since just decided that all the issues I pointed out are now meaningless.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Mailman said:

You are filling in the holes with explanations you are making up with no evidence to support your rewriting.

 

And again you asked me what was hard about the plan that was actually used in the show and have since just decided that all the issues I pointed out are now meaningless.

In a show where people can do magic, raise people from the dead, speak to one another in dreams, talk to wolves, see visions of the future and where the spirits of the long dead are being resurrected to bring about the end to time, you want me to worry about the logistics of how three people are kidnapped. 
 

pass. 

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Mailman said:

And again you asked me what was hard about the plan

No, no. I was responding to your comment that there was no way to get them through the Ways while unconscious. I simply pointed out that that could be achieved exactly as it was depicted in the show - by rendering g the women unconscious and putting them over their horses.
 

You then moved the goalposts to how they were removed from the tower grounds, to which my response is that it is not hard for me to believe that Liandrin could accomplish the kidnapping given her connection to the dark. 

[Mailman]

31 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

In a show where people can do magic, raise people from the dead, speak to one another in dreams, talk to wolves, see visions of the future and where the spirits of the long dead are being resurrected to bring about the end to time, you want me to worry about the logistics of how three people are kidnapped. 
 

pass. 

Ahh the good old its a story about space wizards intended for children argument. A very poor argument. Internal consistency is vital at a fundamental level for good writing.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

No, no. I was responding to your comment that there was no way to get them through the Ways while unconscious. I simply pointed out that that could be achieved exactly as it was depicted in the show - by rendering g the women unconscious and putting them over their horses.
 

You then moved the goalposts to how they were removed from the tower grounds, to which my response is that it is not hard for me to believe that Liandrin could accomplish the kidnapping given her connection to the dark. 

But then you have to physically move 3 bodies all the way to Flame, very difficult as well.

 

Is the quote you used. I'm sorry but I would consider the start of the journey to be part of the movement to Falme not just the portion in the ways.